DC to REBOOT???

[Nerys Myk]

As Allyn pointed out in his post though that would be detrimental to her character development since then. Steph has learned from the mistakes she made as Spoiler and earned the right to wear the costume and be called Batgirl. Taking that away from her and going back to her old costumed identity seems like a step back to me. We shall see what they plan on doing with her though.

I just dont believe a code name change erases any past "character developement".

 

[Admiral_Young]

Then why did they go to the trouble of establishing her as the new Batgirl then? I don't understand the point you are making Nerys Myk. If they wanted Steph to be Spoiler, they would have made her continue in that role.

I am looking forward to Kyle Higgins "Nightwing" he is a new writer that has been on my radar since his fantastic superhero short film he directed called "The League".

 

[Nerys Myk]

Then why did they go to the trouble of establishing her as the new Batgirl then? I don't understand the point you are making Nerys Myk. If they wanted Steph to be Spoiler, they would have made her continue in that role.

I am looking forward to Kyle Higgins "Nightwing" he is a new writer that has been on my radar since his fantastic superhero short film he directed called "The League".

That is my point "they" can have Steph be anyone or act any way "they" choose. When "they" made Steph Batgirl, "they" had no idea Babs would return to being Batgirl. Things change and adjustments have to be made.

 

[Stevil2001]

I'm also just not a fan of "superheroes are hunted and hated by the public" stories,* which looks to be part of this.

It seems like a reasonable place for them to start out.

IIRC, both Superman and Batman weren't exactly on the best terms with the police in their early adventures.

I don't mind the police not liking them, and I don't mind the police not liking Batman 'cause he's freaky, but, I mean, what did Green Lantern ever do to you? (Unless you're a black skin.)

Lois's new boyfriend is revealed to be a fellow Daily Planet reporter named Jonathon Carroll. A blonde, well chiseled and friendly guy! He will be introduced in the George Perez written "Superman".

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/sdcc-11-dcnu-lois-lane-boyfriend-110721.html

Are they even trying to make him likeable?

Another trope I hate in superhero comics: when a hero attracts more villains to where he is. If Superman really did that, he would hang up the cape right then.

I think so. Her time as Robin was short, no question about that but I believe Bruce acknowledged her as Robin because of how she "died" at the time and Leslie Thompkins role in it. Her costume was always visible in the costume vault. It's kind of a moot point now but I thought it was an interesting comment from Marts.

Wasn't there a whole controversy around how she initially didn't get her costume in the Batcave?

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ Yep. They added it in there after the fact.

 

[Myasishchev]

As for your last question, big yes.

Another trope I hate in superhero comics: when a hero attracts more villains to where he is. If Superman really did that, he would hang up the cape right then.

Yeah, it sort of spilled out from Batman, I think, which sort of made sense (albeit not in the context of Gotham as part of a wider DCU, or even really as a political subdivision of the United States, as opposed to the sovereign city-state it's ordinarily written as).

Although it might really originate in the old Flash books, where all the Rogues pretty much stopped doing crime for a while after Barry died, because their principal motivation was how much fun it was to fight that particular Flash. Wally West and one of his girlfriends at the time even partied with them.

Of course now the Rogues are basically like Overlord's Vicious Circle gang from the Savage Dragon or Tao's group from Sleeper, an organized crime syndicate with superpowers. It's arguable which take is better. The former is more fun, but it is a little too Ventures-Brothery.

 

[The Lensman]

Though the Superman news disappointed me, it does pave the way for me to get Nightwing, instead, and still stay within my budget.

I like what Kyle Higgens is saying about Dick. That and his work with Scott Snyder on Gate of Gotham has impressed me enough to try out this book.

You know, I've been getting this question a lot lately and I have to admit I don't see it that way. Here's the reality of the situation-- Batman was NEVER Dick's identity. It was Bruce's, and it'll always BE Bruce's. Dick filled in, eventually becoming more and more comfortable in the role, but deep down he knew it was going to end-- it had to. And the question of "is it a demotion" is silly-- is it a demotion to go back to being YOU?

Now, where I WOULD say it runs the risk of being a demotion-- if I don't do my job right-- is in the villain area. As Batman, Dick went up against the best of the best-- he went up against a rogues gallery (new and old) that put him to the ultimate test. And a lot of those characters are Bruce's villains-- they're villains of Batman. So my job is to come up with new threats that will test Dick as Nightwing just as thoroughly.

That last part sold me. It shows that he put some thought into the character and realizes where it could all go wrong. But, I don't think it will.

Oh and a Star Trek/Legion of Super-Heroes crossover? AWESOME!

Nope, it's a demotion. For those of us who grew up with the original Teen Titans, there was always the hope that one day they'd take over for their mentors...you know, since their mentors knew they wouldn't live forever.

And some DC writers were adept at doing, as best as possible, what Julius Schwartz did in the 50's....put new people in familiar costumes and names. Seriously, Ray Palmer can't sell a book, so as far as I'm concerned, he has no greater right to the name than Al Pratt or Ryan Choi.

As for creating better villians for Dick...yeah, whatever. The villians they create will NEVER be allowed to be greater villians than Batman's classic villians because that might make Dick a better hero than Batman and we can't allow that.

See Hal Jordan and Barry Allen for examples of writers having to write the other members of their respective "families" as not facing foes or threats as good or greater than, so that they can keep these characters at the top.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Morrison actually created a lot of good villains during Dick's run as Batman...I'm wondering if they will carry on to being Nightwing villains or remain Batman villains. Morrison was effectively creating an even "darker" Gotham as well, something that Dick mentioned to Alfred a couple of times. It's going to be curious when people see Nightwing back. I believe there have been a couple of issues during Dick's time as Batman that people have brought him up. His absence was never fully addressed.

Morrison also added in his panel that he had hoped that DC would continue on with Dick Grasyon as Batman for another "four or five years" beyond him so he's still very fond of the move (as well he should be he didn't really get to finish his story that he started with Dick, Tony Daniel will be doing that as will Scott Snyder).

 

[God Magnus]

Nope, it's a demotion. For those of us who grew up with the original Teen Titans, there was always the hope that one day they'd take over for their mentors...you know, since their mentors knew they wouldn't live forever.

I admire the writer's ability to be optimistic and take a positive angle about the changes, but I have to agree with this sentiment. I grant I have not been reading the main Bat-book, but in all the crossovers and in "Batman and Robin" issues I've read, not once have I seen a panel or a thought bubble where Dick is saying "Gosh, I really can't wait to put back on the Nightwing outfit because this is really Bruce's gig."

I think DC is (rightfully) doing a lot of positive spin on this, and they have to considering the scope of the initiative. It just makes business sense. However, from the standpoint of where stories have been heading, some of what is being said comes off a bit...disingenuous to me.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I grant I have not been reading the main Bat-book, but in all the crossovers and in "Batman and Robin" issues I've read, not once have I seen a panel or a thought bubble where Dick is saying "Gosh, I really can't wait to put back on the Nightwing outfit because this is really Bruce's gig."

The end of Morrison and Finch's Batman: The Return has exactly that scene. Dick assumes that he's going to be Nightwing again because Bruce is back, and Bruce decides a on different path for Dick, largely because he (Bruce) can't work with Damian.

 

[Misfit Toy]

Oh and a Star Trek/Legion of Super-Heroes crossover? AWESOME!

I love Star Trek and I love the Legion, but I don't want a crossover.

 

[JD]

In a way, there are going to be two Batgirls in the DCnU's Gotham -- the first story arc in Batwoman will have Kate training Bette to be Flamebird.

Given how crowded with heroes Gotham will be, I think the only way we'll see Cass and/or Steph suited up on a regular basis would be if DC found them a place outside of Gotham.

Isn't Cass Blackbat in Hong Kong now?

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ Yep. We saw Cass I think in Batman, Inc#6 as Black Bat.

 

[DarKush]

^
She also just showed up in the latest Red Robin issue; came out last week I think.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ Yep. So unless DC is making changes to something they JUST created then I don't see the point at all.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

^ Yep. We saw Cass I think in Batman, Inc#6 as Black Bat.

Also in the Gates of Gotham mini-series, where she has an interesting relationship with Damian.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ Yep Cass has been around all of a sudden!


The Friday New 52 panel has just started. DiDio is describing the genesis and origin of the relaunch. He says it started with a writer's retreat last October. 23 of their top writers were involved to discuss the "tone, direction, and voice of the DC universe" They claim the DCU had lost it's sense of "wonder" and "epicness" and they're characters all became a bunch of "talking heads".

Anyways the whole thing is here if you want to follow along:

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/sdcc-2011-dc-new-52-friday-110722.html

Ugh. The more I read from them about this whole thing, the less I'm liking it. I've pretty much made my decision to stick with the Bat-Family books along with Grant Morrison's Action Comics. I'll check out Justice League#1 but don't know if I'll stick around for the entire origin arc.

 

[Myasishchev]

^ Yep Cass has been around all of a sudden!


The Friday New 52 panel has just started. DiDio is describing the genesis and origin of the relaunch. He says it started with a writer's retreat last October. 23 of their top writers were involved to discuss the "tone, direction, and voice of the DC universe" They claim the DCU had lost it's sense of "wonder" and "epicness" and they're characters all became a bunch of "talking heads".

Maybe Didio has been accidentally reading Marvel comics this entire time. That would explain so much. "Why is Superman ripping a Wonder Woman villain in half?"

Damn it, Jim Lee charmed me a little:

I'm not a writer. If you've ever read Max Faraday you know that.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

So 23 of their writers have also been reading Marvel comics all this time?

Looks good:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/07...-from-supergirl-superboy-action-and-superman/

 

[Admiral_Young]

The art is not what I have an issue with here. Supergirl looks gorgeous, Superman looks okay and Superboy looks cartoonish (which seems to be the intention). Scott Lobdell did say at the Superman Panel that this is the same Connor we've known for the last 15 years, then he added a "I guess?"

A part of me wants this relaunch to blow up in their faces now lol.