DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by dahj, Aug 5, 2018.

  1. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    They didn't make Joker or The Batman part of the DCEU either, but that's not a slight against their protagonists. Rather, it's to free them up to tell stories unfettered by the continuity and style of the DCEU. We're already at a stage where the DCEU is just one of multiple realities that DC films occupy -- and indeed it's arguably the non-DCEU films that are the most prestigious.
     
  2. Saul

    Saul Vice Admiral Admiral

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  3. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It sounds like they're going to be taking a different approach with this one, so they're probably setting it in it's own universe so they can have complete freedom to do their own thing with it.
    That seems to be what they're doing with The Batman, so it makes sense they'd do it with this too.
    They've already said in the past that the were going to be doing more standalone movies that weren't part of the DCEU, and even future DCEU movies are supposed to have less direct connections to each other.
    I think treating it as a multiverse is a good idea, that way they can allow to movies to do their own thing individually, but they're still connected enough that if they want to do crossovers they can.
     
  4. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Admiral Admiral

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    Obviously the Superman news is the main thing a lot of people are focussing on in this story, but almost hidden in there was a reference to a planned Joker sequel
     
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  5. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Admiral

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    Did anyone really think it would be Val-Zod? ( or any other iteration.)
     
  6. Caretaker

    Caretaker Commodore Premium Member

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    Yes, I thought they might go that route.
     
  7. Saul

    Saul Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think because Henry Cavill was still around and we can have Spiderman be both Peter Parker and Miles Morales. It seemed possible.
     
  8. thribs

    thribs Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This feels very much like stunt casting. Something done so the execs can all congratulate each other on how amazing they are. I don't think Superman needs to be a racially charged character. There are plenty of other characters in the DC lore they can do.
    What they should be doing is giving us a MoS sequel. He has that back suit now that looks badass. They should continue that by giving him a mullet as well.
     
  9. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, me too, for the same reasons. Plus Sam Wilson is now Captain America. And there were comments in the original press release about a whole new take on Superman. I mean, obviously making Kal/Clark black is new but making an entirely new (onscreen) Superman would’ve been even more so.
     
  10. Kai "the spy"

    Kai "the spy" Admiral Admiral

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    Mind you, it could still be Kalel, aka US President Calvin Ellis, of Earth-23. Although, being a pretty obvious Obama stand-in, WB might not want to alienate part of the audience ... oh, what am I thinking, the mere fact he's black Superman would alienate those people.
     
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  11. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    News flash: To everyone but white people, casting white heroes all the time is very racially charged. If you assume that only nonwhite casting is "racial," that is the definition of white privilege.

    Superman is the ultimate symbol of truth, justice, and noble heroism. Everyone deserves the chance to see someone like themselves in the role.
     
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  12. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Hm. I guess we will see. If it comes to that, it will be interesting to see that universe's take on characters such as Brainiac, Parasite, et al.


    I know, and in the grand scheme of things, that's fine. Comic readers have bought endless alternate earth/reality/time stories for generations, so they should be able to at least take a look at the film versions.



    Of course. In the season finale of Captain America and the Winter Soldier, Sam Wilson's pointed reference to knowing that millions will reject/hate him for picking up the shield was a direct comment on that kind of behavior in real life, where casting the "wrong" person (or becomes a new version of an established white character in the comics) has caused bitter rants for a very long time.
     
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  13. M'rk son of Mogh

    M'rk son of Mogh Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think it was more about racism in our world (specifically the US) in general than a direct comment on a handful of bitter comic book fans who don't like the replacement character of their favourite hero. It's quite an indirect comment on that, at best.
     
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    The latter is merely one of the many ways the former is expressed.
     
  15. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I thought that it was about people like Isaiah who will resent him for picking up a white man's shield...
     
  16. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    We've already gotten 10 white live action Supermen, so I don't see any problem with changing things up this time.
    And before anyone points it out, yes I am aware that we did get 1 mixed race Superman in the form of Dean Cain.
     
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  17. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    Where I've found white privilege within myself is that I'll admit I selfishly prefer not to have characters recast along diversity lines because the story doesn't have to reference it and be about it. Whereas when the character is made Black than race becomes part of the story. It won't just be a Superman that happens to be Black, it will be a Superman that has to deal with being Black. I'm not saying that's a bad thing or that it shouldn't be referenced and it makes me realize that is what many people have to deal with all the time as part of life. White people problems....
     
  18. thribs

    thribs Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don’t mind another take but I still think Cavil has more to give. He hasn’t stated anywhere that he’s done.
    With Affleck done they could have made the next Batman black.
     
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  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I've seen plenty of stories where a character's recasting as a different race was not treated as a story issue. It never came up with Billy Dee Willams's Harvey Dent, or with Samuel L. Jackson's Nick Fury (that I can recall offhand), or with Laurence Fishburne's Perry White. The Chinese heritage of Lucy Liu's Joan Watson in Elementary came up occasionally but infrequently; after all, that show's diversity was just reflecting the everyday reality of its New York City setting.

    On the other hand, in this day and age with white supremacism making a violent comeback, it would be irresponsible and dishonest for a story set in anything like the present-day US to pretend it wasn't an issue. And the onus for that shouldn't be laid on the nonwhite characters, but on the segment of the white population that can't abide their existence. It would be great if people of diverse backgrounds could just tell their stories without having to cope with racism, but it would be even more great if they could just live their lives without having to cope with racism, and unfortunately that's pretty far from being the case. But talking about it, facing it rather than avoiding it, is the first step in getting rid of it.


    This movie is explicitly not in the DCEU, so there's no reason they couldn't still bring back Cavill. It's an alternative Superman, not a replacement. This is the age of the comics-movie multiverse, after all, with Michael Keaton coming back as Batman in The Flash, and with two overlapping Jokers if you count the Snyder Cut.
     
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  20. Saul

    Saul Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Marc Bernardin from Fatman Beyond pointed out that it might be easier to have a black Superman than a black Batman because the Waynes were rich from old money made off the backs of slaves. Obviously that could be changed in a fresh take or with a different character but Superman is a character that can be anyone.

    BTW, Affleck isn't done yet. He's still going to be in the Flash movie.