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DC Cinematic Universe ( The James Gunn era)

The Star Wars bois have been doing the same thing with Kathleen Kennedy and the Disney leadership for ages.

If you keep predicting every day that an executive will leave a studio job, you'll eventually be right on one day of your life. That's enough to keep the clickbait grifters going...

Was she the person who hired a black man and an Asian woman to shit on the Star Wars franchise?:rolleyes:

Gunn has a big HBO hit right now, had a lesser hit with Peacemaker and Penguin, and a hit with his Superman movie. What's more he's building franchise faith with non comic book readers, and is looking for another solid movie this fall.
 
I am not a fan of using sarcasm online. It’s hard to tell if someone if mocking the opinions of those they do not agree with by repeating their beliefs or actually feel that way themselves. There are more direct ways of making a point...
 
That was the point of the rollyeyes. What was done to those to was disgusting.

I think the problem there was that the rolleyes could have been interpreted as mocking Mudd's comment. While I did interpret it as sarcasm, knowing you and your usual leanings did a lot of heavy lifting.

Personally, I find that ending with /s is better suited as a clearer signaling of sarcasm than the rolleyes.
 
Makes sense to brief this now as creating uncertainty around Gunn's position risks damaging Man of Tomorrow's box office performance.

I suspect all they'll do is replace Gunn once his contract runs out and do a soft reboot and course correction of the DCU.

People seem very tribal about this and strangely invested in Gunn keeping his position. The mere suggestion that Skydance might eventually replace Gunn with their own guy is treated as outlandish and this along with any expression of frustration with the direction of the DCU leads you to be automatically assumed to be a supporter of Zack Snyder.
But it's not inevitable, if the current DCU stuff does well I'm sure they'll let him continue on.
 
People seem very tribal about this and strangely invested in Gunn keeping his position. The mere suggestion that Skydance might eventually replace Gunn with their own guy is treated as outlandish and this along with any expression of frustration with the direction of the DCU leads you to be automatically assumed to be a supporter of Zack Snyder.
Given that Gunn delivered as perfect a Superman movie as anyone could reasonably have hoped for, particularly following decades of cinematic efforts with the character ranging from barely middling to total debacle, I don’t find it strange at all that folks would want him to stick around.
 
People seem very tribal about this and strangely invested in Gunn keeping his position. The mere suggestion that Skydance might eventually replace Gunn with their own guy is treated as outlandish and this along with any expression of frustration with the direction of the DCU leads you to be automatically assumed to be a supporter of Zack Snyder.
Snyder is their obsession. Gunn's DC run is going on, yet as you see, certain people cannot let go of their hate/obsession with Snyder, incessantly posting about the man, his work any anything else they despise about him. Textbook obsession and insecurity over the ever-musical chairs game called franchise-associated talent, and you can bet if Gunn and Safran are ever replaced by the new bosses, the usual suspects will still spit and scream over a man and his production period of the past, instead of focusing on why Gunn and Safran were replaced.
Gunn has a big HBO hit right now, had a lesser hit with Peacemaker and Penguin, and a hit with his Superman movie. What's more he's building franchise faith with non comic book readers, and is looking for another solid movie this fall.
GL is the most watchable production of this DCU by far, but on the theatrical front, Supergirl's historic failure cannot be overstated, as this was not some C or D list character, but one of DC's most recognized legacy characters associated with the Superman brand (and in recent history, the character had her own long-running TV series, so she's not an unknown creation), so Supergirl was supposed to be the next big, major player chapter of the DCU with much riding on it, yet it failed miserably. The DCU obviously needs a massive hit that outperforms its predecessors by some distance, or the outlook will not be good, to put it mildly.
 
Given that Gunn delivered as perfect a Superman movie as anyone could reasonably have hoped for, particularly following decades of cinematic efforts with the character ranging from barely middling to total debacle, I don’t find it strange at all that folks would want him to stick around.

I don't really see that. I've found something to like about the character in almost all the shows and movies I've seen. I haven't seen the old Superboy series nor I have seen a lot of the animation apart from Justice League (Unlimited), and I didn't like Lois and Clark: TNAS--but Smallville and the various movies have portrayed the character well, with an exception given for the personal invasion of privacy scene in Superman Returns. And the CW version of the character was one of the best portrayals.

Superman's been around a long time and there are many legitimate ways to portray him.

Supergirl's historic failure cannot be overstated, as this was not some C or D list character, but one of DC's most recognized legacy characters associated with the Superman brand (and in recent history, the character had her own long-running TV series, so she's not an unknown creation), so Supergirl was supposed to be the next big, major player chapter of the DCU with much riding on it, yet it failed miserably. The DCU obviously needs a massive hit that outperforms its predecessors by some distance, or the outlook will not be good, to put it mildly.

You'll get no argument from me there. Supergirl had the potential to be a spectacular and poignant film based on the source material--or even only partly based on the comic. There was a lot of great story with two wounded young women trying to deal with there past and find a way forward with their lives-- and instead we got a spectacularly mediocre movie that could have been written and directed by thousands of film students who will never actually get a real break. What worries me the most about the future of this DCU is that the writer is already attached to at least two other projects.
 
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I think the problem there was that the rolleyes could have been interpreted as mocking Mudd's comment. While I did interpret it as sarcasm, knowing you and your usual leanings did a lot of heavy lifting.

Personally, I find that ending with /s is better suited as a clearer signaling of sarcasm than the rolleyes.

Maybe the forum needs a 'sarcasm sign' emoji.
 
I don't really see that. I've found something to like about the character in almost all the shows and movies I've seen. I haven't seen the old Superboy series nor I have seen a lot of the animation apart from Justice League (Unlimited), and I didn't like Lois and Clark: TNAS--but Smallville and the various movies have portrayed the character well, with an exception given for the personal invasion of privacy scene in Superman Returns. And the CW version of the character was one of the best portrayals.

Superman's been around a long time and there are many legitimate ways to portray him.
Note that I referred to “cinematic efforts.” The character has historically fared much better on television than in the movies. I agree that Superman & Lois, in particular, was superb.

As for your larger point, I would concur in principle, but that doesn’t mean that every portrayal is created equal, or that we are not allowed to dislike some of them. You just said yourself that you didn’t care for Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman, which I quite enjoyed.
 
I don't think the possibility of new management replacing Gunn should be discounted so readily.

New heads do like to bring in their own people and do like to interfere. Especially if more projects struggle like Supergirl did.

This would in no way result in Zack Snyder's return however and the horribly mangled corpse of that continuity should rest in what little peace it can. I also don't think everyone that does bring it up as a hypothetical is automatically clamouring for him to return that's a 2+2=5 assumption.
 
Hollywood is a place where you are amazing until they fire you.

Nothing of us have any real insight but I'd note that in a merger of this scale, they don't generally change everything at once.

Just picking up on a point above - let's accept for a minute that Gunn delivered a "Perfect Superman" then that suggests that there is a natural celling on his films and that is sort of mid-tier blockbuster numbers.
 
What worries me the most about the future of this DCU is that the writer is already attached to at least two other projects.

Writers in the feature film business have very, very little influence over how films turn out, because directors and producers have all the power and scripts are rewritten at their whims, often by uncredited script doctors, so it often happens that very little of the credited writer's work ends up in the final film. (My go-to example is Speed, which is credited solely to Graham Yost even though nearly every line of dialogue in the film was written by Joss Whedon.) Generally, if you look at any given screenwriter's filmography, you'll find a mix of successes and failures (e.g. John Logan wrote both the acclaimed Gladiator and the often-reviled Star Trek: Nemesis, though I actually liked most of Nemesis), since screenwriters are at the mercy of what directors choose to do with their words.


This would in no way result in Zack Snyder's return however and the horribly mangled corpse of that continuity should rest in what little peace it can.

I'm still confused that people associate Snyder with the entire DCEU continuity, given that he parted ways with it only 4 years into its 10-year run and only directed two and a half of its 15 canonical entries -- and for that matter, the latter two of his three films were heavily altered by Warner Bros. because they didn't like what he was doing and demanded changes. They were already pushing him out even before his family tragedy forced him to leave earlier than planned. So even if WB did revive the DCEU, there's no reason to think they'd want Snyder back any more than they did before.

And I still say the DCEU was on the right track after Snyder left. They weren't trying to prioritize a unified series arc at the expense of the individual films, but were just doing a bunch of standalone films that had their own distinctive styles and could stand on their own, with the shared universe just a background element. Of course they weren't all good, but the value of the more standalone approach was that you could take or leave the individual films as you chose, and a good individual film wouldn't be dragged down by weaker films around it because its story didn't depend on knowing them. That's how a shared universe should work, not as a mandatory study course where you have to see everything, but as a set of distinct works that individual audience members can pick and choose among according to their tastes, so there's something for everyone. It also made it distinct from the MCU rather than just trying to copy it like most other attempts at shared film universes.

Really, I'd be happy if we went back to the era when superhero movies weren't required to be pieces in a larger continuity or filmmaking strategy, but could just be individual films not expected to carry any weight beyond themselves. They could connect if there were story value in doing so, but it wouldn't be mandatory.
 
I think the problem there was that the rolleyes could have been interpreted as mocking Mudd's comment. While I did interpret it as sarcasm, knowing you and your usual leanings did a lot of heavy lifting.

Personally, I find that ending with /s is better suited as a clearer signaling of sarcasm than the rolleyes.
Oh, I got the intent. :)
 
I'm still confused that people associate Snyder with the entire DCEU continuity, given that he parted ways with it only 4 years into its 10-year run and only directed two and a half of its 15 canonical entries -- and for that matter, the latter two of his three films were heavily altered by Warner Bros. because they didn't like what he was doing and demanded changes. They were already pushing him out even before his family tragedy forced him to leave earlier than planned. So even if WB did revive the DCEU, there's no reason to think they'd want Snyder back any more than they did before.
It's an easy shorthand. The universe started with his set up and followed his aesthetic until it collapsed utterly. Some people similarly refer to the Arrowverse as the Berlantiverse despite his having very little to do with the shows beyond their inception.

Warner Brothers wanted it to resemble the MCU thinking that would automatically equal success and it backfired on them rightfully so. The changes they demanded were idiotic and failure was the inevitable result.
 
It's an easy shorthand. The universe started with his set up and followed his aesthetic until it collapsed utterly.

I don't know what you mean by that. First of all, he wasn't the exclusive creator; David S. Goyer and Christopher Nolan were involved with Man of Steel too (though Nolan's involvement was fairly cursory, I think). Second, I don't agree that other directors' films followed his "aesthetic," and in any case, what the heck does an "aesthetic" have to do with the writing decisions made in those films, the plots and character arcs, the things that matter to what a film is actually about rather than merely what it looks like?


Some people similarly refer to the Arrowverse as the Berlantiverse despite his having very little to do with the shows beyond their inception.

Now, that's an absolutely nonsensical comparison. Of course Berlanti was involved; he was the president of the production company and thus participated in the creation of every series in his company's stable, which is what production company heads do -- co-create shows, then supervise their individual showrunners' work while moving on to develop the next season's shows. He was a co-developer, pilot co-plotter, and executive producer on every series in that continuity (as well as Titans), rather than being completely phased out 20% of the way through like Snyder was. Good grief, it was his company that made the shows, so he's a better analogy to a Warner Bros. studio exec like Jon Berg or Peter Safran than a director like Snyder. No, he didn't personally write or direct most of those series's episodes, but he was the boss of the people who did, the one who had final approval over their decisions, so it's ridiculous to say he had no involvement. He was just as involved in the Arrowverse as Alex Kurtzman is in Star Trek, because that's how production companies work.


Warner Brothers wanted it to resemble the MCU thinking that would automatically equal success and it backfired on them rightfully so. The changes they demanded were idiotic and failure was the inevitable result.

No. It's the "cinematic universes" that tried to copy the MCU that failed, e.g. the Mark Webb Spider-Man films or the Tom Cruise The Mummy that was supposed to launch a new Universal Monsters franchise, because they forgot that Marvel started out by prioritizing the individual films with the interconnections being an optional, secondary element. They forgot that the whole doesn't matter if the individual parts aren't strong in themselves. They tried so hard to make their films prologues for what came next that they failed to make them good in their own right, and so the series flopped before they managed to get any more films. The studios assumed they were entitled to do ongoing series rather than realizing they had to earn that by making the individual films good enough that people would want more. And this was Batman v Superman's mistake as well -- it's more an extended teaser for Wonder Woman and Justice League than it is an actual story in its own right. The series didn't begin to work until they stopped misdirecting their attention to the future and started prioritizing each individual film's needs. Because you can't do your current job well if you're only thinking about the next job.

And it's silly to call the post-Snyder DCEU films an "inevitable failure" when there were ten of them released over the course of six years, a longer run than the series had with Snyder. Of all the cinematic superhero universes, I believe it was the longest-running one other than the MCU and X-Men.
 
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