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DC and Marvel merged

^Yeah, Metropolis may be potrayed as a substitute for New York in some versions of the story but it's not completely clear exactly where in the United States it's located.

Smallville, for example, says it's in Kansas, a variable distance from Smallville itself. In the show, the distance has changed from being a three hour drive or a helicopter trip away from Metropolis to being a relatively easy commute for Clark, Lois and Chloe. (Yes, I'm aware Clark could actually commute from anywhere he liked!)

The same issue exists with Gotham City - is it or is it not a direct replacement for Chicago ? If not, where is it ?
 
But Metropolis (according to one map) either in or in effect *is* NJ! Not much of a commute.
 
Gojirob said:
But Metropolis (according to one map) either in or in effect *is* NJ! Not much of a commute.
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That's the point - according to one map. Metropolis and Gotham City have both moved several times. At one point it was in Delaware!

The Smallville version is, and always has been, in Kansas. It's just that the distance between Smallville and Metropolis has been retconned pretty significantly to facilitate the fact that Chloe, then Lois and now Clark commute to work at the Daily Planet from their homes in Smallville.

Metropolis is not quite as hard to pin down as the Simpsons' Springfield, which somehow manages to have borders with Nevada, Ohio, Maine and Kentucky while still having docks that lead to the open sea.
 
That's why I think Metropolis should merge with Marvels' NYC while Gotham becomes Chicago. I know I'm biased in favor of Marvel (I like characters that are character first and powers/superhero identity second) but I think a merged world should stick with Marvels' using real American cities instead of DC's made up ones.
 
In many ways, Marvel's NYC is just as made up as any fictional DC city. Plus the place is over crowded with heroes since 95% of Marvel heroes live there. I rather like fiction cities. You can do all sorts of twisted things to them, their citizens and landmarks without any PR flack or wags saying "that would never happen in NYC" or "that totally wrong". :evil:

The distiction in characterization between Marvel and DC characters has long past, with DC's cookie cutter heroes becoming individual characters.
 
Yes, but compared to Gotham its a walk in park. Compared to Coast City its a walk in the park with Disney animals singing.
 
Well, we're in charge of this so the city can get trashed as much as we want ;).

Hell, even in DC they aren't willing to allow any real changes to happen to their made-up cities: After Luthor trashed the place in "Fall of Metropolis" we get one story that resets the WHOLE THING. When Coast City is destroyed, we later see it get rebuilt to the point you'd never think there was a prior city, when Gotham was hit by the Earthquake you'd never think that happened looking at it now.

And at least the merge will beef up DC's villains: That army of supervillains that Alex Luthor unleashed in "Infinite Crisis"? Magneto or Doom would wipe the whole lot of them out on their own.

And Norman Osborn (and Kingpin) have more depth than Lex Luthor ever did.
 
Norman has sorta become Luthor-lite,hasn't he? Liked him better in the Green Goblin days.
Kingpin. Never struck me as all that complex. Standard gangboss stuff.
Luthor was pretty complex as the businessman. Less so as the mad scientist.
 
A while back, Magneto (actually an imposter) trashed NYC, turned it into "New Genosha" and forced lots of baseline humans to go into gas chambers to make room for the new mutants overlords.

Norman was actually the evil businessman BEFORE Lex, and the later backstory we got on him showed he was actually quite different from Lex and still a complex character. Lex has his "He's an alien, he makes normal humans look bad!" thing but he still wasn't a terribly complex character.

Kingpin, he got more complex once Frank Miller got his hands on him. As far as mobsters villains go he's at the top, self-made, and a great character with interesting relationships to other (like his son and wife) to boot.

Basically, Norman and Kingpin were likely the sources Byrne went to when he re-invented Lex in the 80s.
 
Anwar said:
A while back, Magneto (actually an imposter) trashed NYC, turned it into "New Genosha" and forced lots of baseline humans to go into gas chambers to make room for the new mutants overlords.
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The impostor part is up for some debate - and I mean debate on the same level as "Han Shot First" or "Deckerd's a Replicant".
 
The fact that Magneto's alive, well, and not trying to commit genocide on humanity while the other guy got decapitated on page kind of says otherwise.

I don't think even Magneto can survive decapitation...

Anywho, Freedom Force and Task Force X would be one and the same, meaning Amanda Waller would have to deal with Mystique...
 
Anwar said:
The fact that Magneto's alive, well, and not trying to commit genocide on humanity while the other guy got decapitated on page kind of says otherwise.

I don't think even Magneto can survive decapitation...
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I don't know, people have survived worse! :D
 
Yeah, but Marvel tends to be less extreme over recovery from injuries.

Like how Bruce Wayne got his back healed extremely quickly after Bane broke it, yet no one ever suggested they do the same for Barbara Gordon...
 
^Sure - but the fact that he was dead at the end of Planet X is not evidence that it wasn't Magneto.

It is evidence of a giant panic button retcon after Grant Morrison killed off one of Marvel's longest standing villains, yes.
 
I think that since they went to the trouble of not just saying Magnus somehow regenerated (or some BS) but actually said it was an impostor was because they hated how Morrisson derailed Magento's character in the first place. Which is okay because frankly Magneto's whole "I'm a drug-crazed Hitler wannbe!" thing was a bad story to begin with...

Onwards:

So, what would "Age of Apocalypse" be like in this world? Assuming Apocalypse launched his bid for world conquest 35 or so years in the past (this is assumed Xavier is in his 60s) and won, what would the world be like?

For one change, since the Kents wouldn't have been able to shield him and he wouldn't have powers yet I think Clark may have ended up as one of Sinister's Acolytes with Cyclops and Havok. He'd only have been 5 when this happened.

Batman, for a twist Thomas and Martha sold off all their property and company holdings (before they were destroyed by the war) and used the money to get to Europe and become part of the Human High Council (Thomas as a member, Bruce an Operative) for the irony of Batman's family being alive in the bad alternate timeline.

Paradise Island might be a base of resistance, or Apocalypse destroyed it along with other Island-Nations (like Japan). Perhaps they decided not to be part of Man's World at all and Diana never left.

Which villains would work WITH Apocalypse and his "Survival of the Fittest" order? I can see Ra's al Ghul and Vandal Savage at least as allies (or posing at least).

Who would work with Magneto as the Resistance or the High Council?
 
Hermiod said:
Nerys Myk said:
Hermiod said:
A walk in the park straight in to one of Magneto's gas chambers, maybe.
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Gave up on X-men, no idea what this refers too.
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It's from Grant Morrison's run on New X-Men - Planet X.
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And was everything hunky-dory afterwards? How did all the other heroes in NYC react? (Outside of the X-books). There in lies the trouble with all the heores in one city. Magneto can commit acts of genocide in NYC in X-Men, but in FF or Avengers its like it never happened.

Too bad Marvel whimped out and made it Xorn. It would be nice to have Magento back to his true self.

Norman was actually the evil businessman BEFORE Lex, and the later backstory we got on him showed he was actually quite different from Lex and still a complex character. Lex has his "He's an alien, he makes normal humans look bad!" thing but he still wasn't a terribly complex character.

Kingpin, he got more complex once Frank Miller got his hands on him. As far as mobsters villains go he's at the top, self-made, and a great character with interesting relationships to other (like his son and wife) to boot.

Basically, Norman and Kingpin were likely the sources Byrne went to when he re-invented Lex in the 80s.
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I think it was Marv Wolfman who came up with Lex as a businessman.

To me, Norman came across as a pretty stock character in his early appearence. A corrupt businessman and lousy dad. And of course we had no idea he was the Green Goblin, ( and possibly neither did Stan ;) )


Most of my familierity with the Kingpin comes from Miller's take. Thats my basis for his lack of complexity.

The " I hate him, he's an alien" take is recent and barely scratches the surface of Lex Luthor. Even the evil scientist version is more complicated than that.
 
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