David A. Goodman responds

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by Guest, Dec 12, 2002.

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  1. evay

    evay Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Sep 20, 2002
    Deck 4, Section 7
    Ptrope, thank you for an excellent and eloquent post.

    Mr. Goodman, allow me to add my voice to the chorus of those thanking you for stopping by to read our commentary.

    Despite the very poor performance of the guest star, I did enjoy "Precious Cargo." My real complaint is that the attraction between Trip and Princess Stuckup was so entirely clichéd that it literally wasn't believable. They kissed because it was in the script. There was absolutely nothing building between them to justify even a kiss, let alone a boink. (And Trinneer really tried... that sweet little smile after she bandaged his back had me believing he at least didn't want to strangle her any more.)

    This wasn't the sparkling repartée of Hepburn and Tracy, or even the spark of Han and Leia. It was practically an actors' exercise: Here's Opposites Attracting, here's Stuck-Up Royalty Admitting Loneliness, here's Rough Outgoing Man Seducing Repressed Woman. I'm certain that what's-her-name's performance contributed to dragging this down; a better actress could have made those moments more spontaneous. But even Trinneer had to follow the plot which was handed him, and their entire half of the episode was paint-by-numbers. (Which is not to say paint-by-numbers always sucks. "Shuttlepod One" was equally predictable and it's one of my favorite episodes.)

    If the plot is heading along a standard arc, then at least let's observe all the traffic devices. She has to soften. He has to flirt. They both have to stare and then look away and get defensive when caught. Et cetera.

    Frankly, a more believable ending for this episode would have been Princess Fish Sticks (I'm sorry, I can't remember her name and I really didn't care) stomping back into the swamp for for wood and then running back trailing Goon #1. Cut to fight scene where she redeems her cattiness by clocking the Goon with the blunt object. The rescue team shows up. Cut to the conversation in the hallway, where Trip and the princess finally grudgingly admit each wasn't so bad, and share one lingering kiss. Much more credible.

    [EDIT to remove my dupe of A4T's thread reference.]

    [This message has been edited by evay (edited December 13, 2002).]
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I thought the episode was pretty good. The interaction between Trip and Kaitama sp? was interesting. I would like to see the consequences of Trip's one night stand in a future episode though.
  3. mrcoaster

    mrcoaster Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Feb 23, 2002
    not here
    Have to say a big thanks to David Goodman for showing up here. It's a real treat to hear from the inside and see that our voices (as warped as some of them may be [​IMG] ) are being heard.

    I enjoyed the ep. No, not the greatest, but I felt plenty entertained for an hour. Much of season one was slow, but I enjoyed the eps better the second time around. I think Enterprise has improved a bit this season and this is yet another one that I've enjoyed.

    Save Farscape!
  4. blsisko

    blsisko Commander Red Shirt

    Feb 22, 2002
    Los Angeles, CA
    Mr. Goodman, I too am another former viewer of ENT. Voyager was the first Star Trek show that I dropped, but that was most of the way through the series. Enterprise I dropped pretty much after the end of the first season. I love all of Star Trek as much as most of the people on this board, but it's gotten so stale and boring I just can't stand to watch it anymore. Well, there's always Star Trek, The Next Generation, and Deep Space Nine on DVD (as well as the first 8 films).

    Thank you for braving this board. It can get pretty scary here at times (as well as funny at those same times).

    The Promenade
  5. anebt2

    anebt2 Commodore Commodore

    Mar 11, 2001
    West Central Florida
    I doubt that David is reading these posts.
    Anyway, I felt that the entire script was riddled with cliches typical of a juvenile comedy.

    Adult romantic comedy (in this case with a sci-fi backdrop) is undoubtedly tough to write because of the potential of stuffing the script with cliches. I don't care who placed them in there, whether during the rewrites or no; it just wasn't the kind of quality romantic comedy I'm used to seeing in other television series.
  6. GHS

    GHS Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Sep 9, 2001
    I thought it was a good script, but I'm not sure Mr. Goodman was handed the best plot to begin with. At least they gave him a set budget to work with (a few more bad guys would have been nice).

    Although I'm glad the opening teaser wasn't needlessly prolonged, what I saw wasn't much of an impetus to get me to stick around. My problem with Enterprise is starting to be that I watch a couple minutes, decide there's not going to be any humor, character development, or significant Trek historical development, and tune out. At least three times this season, I've passed on an episode until I logged in at this site and saw that something clever actually occurs in it. So I guess this is my roundabout way of saying that I think some witty character bit with Conner would have been a better teaser than the one used. It could be that the 8:00 time slot is making the "threat on the horizon" teaser less effective with this series.

    I also think the writers want to keep in mind that they're going to need something besides pure plot going on when they introduce these one-act wonders that we know aren't going to reappear. I liked this week's villains and thought the actors playing them did a good job, but my first impulse on seeing them was (as always) "Oh, these turkeys are going to be dull and I'm never going to buy them as a threat." Maybe I'm saying that the writers should always be prepared in case the makeup dept. doesn't create much of an alien. Once again, Mr. Goodman handled that aspect well, but the villain introduction is the main "disinterest hurdle" to overcome.

    I liked that Goodman had Reed finally ordering some guest around rather than just being exceedingly polite with everyone. I also liked Connor's fisticuffs (hopefully, Bakula doesn't feel threatened if someone else in the cast occassionally wins a fight).

    Another problem this season is that, although they've muted the criticism about the Vulcans getting slammed in Enterprise, Archer's turning into kind of a dull character. His hostility towards the Vulcans and his "screw them, I'll do what I want" attitude made his character a lot more interesting. Maybe he needs some *new* earth-allied species to be constantly grating on his nerves.
  7. JNG

    JNG Chief of Staff, Starfleet Command Rear Admiral

    Sep 29, 2001
    Thanks for posting here, Mr. Goodman. Since the thread is long, I'll keep the comments brief. The only criticisms I have are generalized and beyond the specific episode itself.

    The episode was well-executed in most respects, but the premise is too familiar to the audience. Specific comments or criticisms would be pretty piddling. Regardless of the execution, few could have gotten truly excited about it.

    Enterprise is the fourth live-action Trek spinoff and as such is in the greatest danger of seeming overly familiar in many respects. Its episode or story arc ideas have to be somewhat radical, as far out as they can be while still fitting within the generalized conceptual framework of Trek.

    Stuff like this, where it's just going through the motions, simply can't be allowed to make the cut. Blow the lid off the thing somehow, in every line, in every scene, in any way you can.

    Think three things:

    1. Whenever possible, boldly go where no one has gone before

    2. Make sure it's actually *science fiction* at least half of the time

    3. Time travel is not the answer to everything

    This sort of stuff might be decided at a level remote from your contributions to the series, but writing it makes me feel better. I dunno. Thanks again. I'll keep watching
  8. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    Better late than never, I s'pose.

    Welcome to the jungle, David. I hope you packed your asbestos longjohns, 'cause you're gonna need them at some point.

    On to the matter at hand:

    With regard to "Precious Cargo", it really didn't do anything for me, except conclude that Ms. Laksmi needs to stick to modeling and cooking. The whole thing just sort of laid there.

    As far as the overall series, Houston, we have got a major fucking problem.

    Here's what I'm seeing:

    A prequel series that hasn't gotten it through its duranium skull that it's supposed to be a more-or-less direct prequel to Star Trek, not TNG, DS9, or Voyager. I understand the urge to try and show touches from all of the series, but it's misguided. Enterprise needs to feed into Star Trek, and the path continues from there to the movies to TNG to DS9 and, sort of, to Voyager (another topic entirely). Instead, there seems to have been a concerted effort to sidestep the first series and go straight to TNG, from the costumes to the props to the choice in stories. I think this has done a lot to drive off a lot of the old timers.

    This also factors into another troublesome aspect, the way these characters are written and portrayed as Starfleet officers (I've still got a major problem with them even using the term "Starfleet" in this era, but again, that's another topic), namely, to paraphrase Keith David's line from "Armageddon", we're being asked to trust the newest ship in the fleet to a bunch of retards I wouldn't trust with a potato gun. The Cub Scouts seem to have a better handle on military procedure and discipline that this bunch. Star Trek didn't have this problem because the vast majority of the production staff were veterans themselves, and didn't have to be told what would and wouldn't happen under various circumstances. Just because they've never been this far out into space doesn't mean that they should be completely clueless regarding emergency procedures and security protocols (are we seriously supposed to believe that Reed came up with the concept of a red alert? The Navy's been using that system since the '50's, and the Homeland Security bunch is using essentially the same system now in describing the threat level).

    I suggest making a call over to the JAG set and have their military advisor come over and have a nice loooooooooong talk with the writing staff.

    Then we have the third rail of the Star Trek universe, CONTINUITY and the care and feeding of that finicky beast.

    So far, we've had some doozies, and their appearance tells me in no uncertain terms that they cropped up out of utter ignorance in some cases (Specifically, in the case of "Fusion" making the mind meld a "lost practice" when it's been protrayed as a common practice in the other shows {I'll hold off on discussing how the Vulcans have been abused another time} and in "Mine Field" where we see Romulan ships with cloaking technology a hundred years before they should have it {in concentrating so hard on us not seeing the Romulans' faces, your coworkers completely missed the plot point in "Balance of Terror" where the concept of cloaking is, as Spock says, "theoretical" which makes no sense whatsoever if the captability has been established for over a century; this also pretty well nukes the Sulibans' cloaking technology as well, so we're either headed for an event that results in a serious gap in the historical records, a reset button the size of Jupiter, or Kirk and Spock were complete and utter morons for not knowing about the Romulans having cloaking technology for over a hundred years}, and borderline contempt for the fanbase in the particular case of the Ferengi's appearance.

    Add in that the vast majority of the shows to this point have been bland, derivative, unchallenging, and sometimes just flat out painful to watch, and we find ourselves with the ratings at the all-time lowest point, with more than a few "fans" cheering on the impending crash and burn.

    The cherry on top of this shit sundae is Rick Berman telling the LA Times, "Creatively, we've never been better."

    And I thought "The Twilight Zone" was on after Enterprise. It's been right there in Rick's office the whole time.

    If Rick truly thinks things are just hunky dory, then he needs to get some therapy at the earliest opportunity. Otherwise, he's making Bill Clinton look like Mother Teresa (another aspect that has driven away a lot of the fanbase, namely that we simply cannot trust a word that Berman says, a situation that's existed ever since Ron Moore was driven out and has only gotten worse with each new whopper Rick's told about whatever project was coming out).

    I suggest getting real friendly with Les Moonves and Mel Karamazin, 'cause when the axe falls from on high, I don't think they'll be very picky, and the closer one is to the main target, which in this case will be two executive producers who shall remain nameless, the more likely one will share in their fate.

    More later as it's needed.

    ROBT D. APRIL, Captain, SFC
    Commander, U.S.S. ELDRIDGE, NCC-1787
    Captain April's Briefing Room
  9. John Sullivan

    John Sullivan Commodore Commodore

    Mar 16, 2001
    Okay, I do tone it down. But, I agree with someone who said that the new associate producer is probably not reading these threads. He is probably a little busy, on some whipping post for have ever posted the thing in the first place.

    I do apologize for my exhuberance.

    My appreciation for this episode doubled tonight after having watched Nemesis. Unlike this week's ENTERPRISE episode, I did not fall asleep during Nemesis. I regret falling asleep during the initial airing of this excellent episode. I regret not falling asleep during Nemesis.

    Exclusive For TREK BBS readers! http://www.liberty72.com/oldscripts.htm - Only Available Through Year's End!
  10. Flake

    Flake Commodore Commodore

    Dec 23, 2001
    Manchester, UK
    I would like to see Piller or even Meyer on the show. They/you need to bring more of a Naval, 'Militaristic' feel for things, with a defined chain of command, more formal - salute etc... make the attempts at humor less frequent so we appreciate them more, junior officers should be uncomfortable and nervous around senior ones - particularly the captain - and so on.. similar to what happened in the third season of TNG.

    Trip needs to.... smarten up a bit, how he got to be Chief Engineer is beyond me, as far as I can tell he may as well be behind a counter in McDonalds - hes no Geordi and certainly not a McCoy. He simply does not come across as a character with years of training about how to run and maintain the most advanced ship in Starfleet, because with every other line he says its some smart ass comment or bad joke...

    Reed is a good character, Archer (and the writers) should listen to what he has to say.

    Enterprise should begin dealing with more issues surrounding the Formation of the Federation, the impending war with the Romulans, focus on Earth and Starfleet as it begins to build up a fleet and venture into space - focus on the reaction to the people of Earth to this revolution occuring - STOP focusing on aliens of the week...
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I have it on good authority that Cogley is a bit of a "donut slut" anyway...! [​IMG]
  12. Old Trek Guy

    Old Trek Guy Commodore Commodore

    Jun 9, 2001
    My two cents.....The problem with Enterprise is it's a generic space show. Enterprise is going boldly where the other Trek shows have gone before. This is probably why the ratings for Enterprise is sagging. We've seen it all before. Enterprise should look like it's the pioneer era of Trek instead of "Voyager Phase Two". And it should be nothing like the other Trek shows before it, not even like TOS.
    I give Braga credit for having the balls to admit the first season had "Poopy" episodes. Unfortunatly this "poopy" trend seems to be continuing this season too. Maybe it's good that B&B have forgotten about TOS. They should definatly forget about "Voyager". [​IMG]
    Let's see if Enterprise becomes a more grown up Trek instead of a "Saturday Morning Cartoon" Trek. [​IMG]

    [This message has been edited by Old Trek Guy (edited December 15, 2002).]
  13. Samuel T. Cogley

    Samuel T. Cogley Vice Admiral Admiral

    Nov 7, 2001
    Hold still, Jim.

    Maybe David drew the short straw when all the bad press about the low ratings began, and Berman decided that one of them was going to have to try to "make nice" with the fans that had previously been abandoned. [​IMG]

    Lucky. Very lucky.
  14. Ptrope

    Ptrope Agitator Admiral

    Aug 10, 2001
    Having seen the real "Saturday Morning Cartoon" Trek (TAS), it would be an improvement if ENT even managed to be that imaginative and mature.
  15. Strekrules

    Strekrules Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jun 15, 2000
    First of all I just wanted to thank Mr. Goodman for taking the time to post. I know we get a few people with trek ties here now and then (William Shatner, Rick S., and many trek lit writters), but it's nice see a name that's still a part of current trek.

    As for last weeks episode, I must say I was pleasently surprised. I went into the episode expecting really little (the UPN tralier left little to get excited about), but instead got an hour of entertainment!
    Great job!

    My only problem with the episode (and the show in general in season 2) is that the episodes seem too much like filler episodes. Did there ever seem to be any risk to our ship or crew? When there is no risk, there isn't the feeling that one must watch the show each week. Sometimes there shouldn't be a happy ending, sometimes characters (guest stars) shouldn't make it out of an episode alive. That way, it'll play with people's emotions more, and make them want to tune in to see what happens. In my opinion, Enterprise has more often then not refused to take risks, and as such, has the viewer leaving their emotions at the door. When the show did take risks (Shockwave Part I, Dead Stop, and Minefield),they became the fans most favorite episodes. I think the reason Star Trek II is considered to great, is that most of us cry whenever they see Spocks death scene. I'm not saying the show should be dark and evil, but that at least, one has to wonder if trips' girl friend is going to make it out alive. When the show doesn't have any sad endings, there isnt' even the expectation of risk. I know this has been out of your hands, since your new to the staff, but I just think that the risk factor could be taken to the next level, and I hope that you and the other writters to such in future episodes.

    Anyways, I know you probably already moved on and wont' get a chance to read this post, but nevertheless, I wish you the best of luck in the future with the show.


    [This message has been edited by Strekrules (edited December 16, 2002).]
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Just wanted to say thanks for all your postings, I read as many as I could. I thank you for the compliments and the criticisms, some of which I agreed with and some of which I didn't. (That's a misleading sentence, because I really didn't disagree with any of the compliments). But I understand where you're all coming from. What I find most interesting and that a few of you think I post and then never look at the board again. I read this board everyday, but I usually only have a few minutes, which is why I don't post that often. I read it because I'm really interested in what the real fans have to say. As any of you who saw my Futurama know, I'm one of you.
  17. Samuel T. Cogley

    Samuel T. Cogley Vice Admiral Admiral

    Nov 7, 2001
    Hold still, Jim.
    Do us proud, David! We're counting on you!
  18. where'sSaavik?

    where'sSaavik? Vice Admiral Admiral

    Jul 3, 2000
    Springfield, Just Another State, USA
    ^ Good to know. [​IMG]

    And remember, you're always welcome to post your thoughts anytime.
  19. static warp bubble

    static warp bubble Vice Admiral Admiral

    Feb 6, 2002
    Another funny guy. We've got a real shortage of those [​IMG]
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I'd like to thank Mr. Goodman for making an appearance. It's nice to know someone on the inside might care.

    I can't say I liked the latest ENT. I don't know that I can add anything (speaking in general) that hasn't already been said by JNG, Captain Robert April, or Ptrope, but I'll put my two cents in anyway.

    ENT needs to take chances. There are some good characters (and great actors) already in place, but they just aren't doing anything interesting.

    Despite what UPN might think, 'sexing up' the starship Enterprise is NOT interesting. It's painful to watch. Please make it stop.

    Real intimacy would be nice. We haven't seen that on Trek since DS9. I think a lot of fans miss it.

    A clue about 'What happened...' would be nice too. What are the chances the 'princess' is providing Trip with Charles Tucker the Fourth? Did anything result from Archer and Reed's escapade in "Communicator"? Who explained things to the home world of all those miners in "Shockwave"? What happened to the rescued Suliban from "Detained"? Who was the woman involved with Archer in "Two Days and Two Nights"?
    "Enterprise" seems to flail, jumping from one 'unfinished' story to the next. (A stretch, based on these examples, but I think continuity and consequences are left out far too often.)

    On the flipside: I love seeing the crew interact. We need more Archer/Trip/T'Pol, Trip/Reed, Travis/anybody (please!), and other variations. The more we see of ALL the cast members, the better.

    Thanks for listening - Mullach

    "Right, if I find any more of you bloody idiots heating up ether over an open flame, I'll kill you." - A Liar's Autobiography
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