Spoilers Dahj

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by TheMadCloner, Jan 24, 2020.

?

Is Dahj actually dead?

  1. Yes

    69.5%
  2. No

    30.5%
  1. SJGardner

    SJGardner Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Location:
    In the center of Europe
    To be fair, we don't really know much about how Dahj was built like and how exactly she operated... she might have been a fully biological artificial human or she might have had a Terminator-like metal skeleton inside for all we know... we didn't really see the acid go much deeper than her skin. If she's cybernetical to a degree, she might have withstood explosions or acid dissolving her organic outer parts. But then again, considering she has a sister, it makes sense that the Romulans wouldn't have a problem with terminating her once she's activated and became dangerous. They still have the backup. Luckily, Maddox was savvy enough not to fall into the good old 'one single prototype' hole.
     
  2. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    We saw McCoy in the TNG Pilot.

    93 is middle age.
     
  3. dinzy

    dinzy Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2015
    Location:
    Drinking Jippers on a beach somewhere in MD
    And the Death Star 2 completely exploded with no visible structure remaining in both versions of RoTJ, yet the throne room was magically still intact as was a lot of surrounding structure.

    The Romulans were trying to take her, not destroy her. With the current mythology in this show, you can make 2 Soong type androids from a bit of 1. They likely wanted to at least take some of her positronic net to create more as a last resort. So they took her remains.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2020
  4. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Until she activated, then it changes (via dialogue) to a kill mission.
     
  5. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    And seeing McCoy at 137 gives you enough intellectual confidence to make that generalization and boldly post that a 93-year-old+ should just get on a treadmill, without having a clue of Picard’s medical history in the intervening years?
     
  6. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Picard does manual labour in a Vineyard most days.

    He should be in much better condition than Stewart.

    The director should have reshot the scene, unless it was intentional, that they wanted to make Picard look frail.

    I'm wondering if the dog is a real dog, and not some synth medical support apparatus?
     
    Unimatrix Q likes this.
  7. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    We never see Picard exerting himself in the vineyard, merely overseeing the operation from afar, and either way it wouldn’t be enough to boldly claim that a 93-year-old+ could easily be in even better shape for the next time he’s running up the stairs for his life.
     
  8. rahullak

    rahullak Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Location:
    India
    There be another possibility:

    1. Techies today like backups and mirrors. It would be within the realm of Trek possibility.

    2. Dahj and Soji have copies of each other in each other (their "essence" perhaps, not quite the exact experiences they've had after separating). This is presumably the reason they "come in pairs".

    3. Ergo, Dahj is still "alive" in her sister (minus the unique memories/experiences), as is "Soji" with her unique memories.

    4. This explains why Picard's face lights up when he hears that there's a twin. "Dahj" could be revived and possibly even Data.
     
  9. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Location:
    Skin-Neck-Ta-Dee (Schenectady)
    Ten years of 'not-giving-a-damn' can also take its toll on ones physical and mental health.

    Which is pretty much the whole point behind Jean-Luc acting the way he does at the beginning of this episode.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
    Shamrock Holmes likes this.
  10. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2007
    Who's lived to 186? For all we know, McCoy has died of natural causes within a short time after that. At best, 90-100 is well into the last 3rd of current human life expectancy, maybe the last quarter. So Picard is more like one of our 75 year olds.

    Point being, it's still a long way into being geriatric. Even though life expectancy is extended, they've still not significantly altered human aging from ours. They just live longer as geriatrics, because advanced medicine allows for it, but anything might interfere with that, like other medical conditions.

    So the idea that Picard should somehow be more able-bodied than is shown assumes we know his current state of health, which by and large, age is not the only factor of. We do have established canon to say he might suffer from other illnesses. The single example of McCoy is certainly not a metric. Mark Jameson was... 85
     
  11. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 18, 2017
    Location:
    The clinic located by the Q Continuum
    "V" pulled a similar stunt in 1985, albeit out of comparative necessity. Only they took a few episodes between when Martin got killed off and when Philip came in. Same actor, different role, excuse for it was (not good). Thankfully "V"'s over-contrived reason was worse, but that's not saying much. If she does return, it'll need to be big or else the trope of "comes back from the dead with no reason" - something that's also (not good) gets poked at again. If not returning, there's no big deal.
     
    Crewman6 likes this.
  12. Makarov

    Makarov Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2013
    It was an epic death scene. It's up there with The Most Toys lady getting hit with that super weapon and Picard/Riker exploding that guys head. Or that diploment getting all his assistants vaporized.
     
  13. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 27, 2009
    Location:
    USS Prodigy
    McCoy was a bit of a health nut. The Shatnerverse novels suggested that he was mostly cybernetic (fake legs, arms, et cetera).

    Picard has a fake heart that's failed at least once before. He has had underlying medical conditions that in one timeline went untreated. And he's explicitly been "waiting to die," probably not taking good care of himself.

    I don't think 93 is middle age. I think it's old age. It's just that old age has been extended further along. It doesn't change the fact that Picard was balding in his fifties, that he was wrinkly in his seventies. This isn't an ant on a rubber band scenario, expanding lifespan in all directions. It's just realism to add to that rubber band on the one end.

    Adolescence, young adulthood, and middle age are all developmentally the same length, then and now. Old age too, but the final stages of organ failure have been delayed by increased medical care and options.
     
  14. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 27, 2009
    Location:
    USS Prodigy
    She's not really dead, as long as we remember her.
     
  15. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    I was thinking about in All Good Things. He's pruning vines when Geordie shows up. The different time lines are probably similar about the simple things.
     
  16. Gepard

    Gepard Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    The timing of the distortion was right after Dahj called "mom" out on her slip-up re Picard. Mom is first perplexed and worried, then glitches into smiling and happy. Seemed clear to me that it was the holographic program or avatar or whatever on the the other end adjusting to the new information.

    That plus the conversation seems to have activated more of Dahj's latent abilities. "Mom's" gotta be Maddox or one of her handlers.

    Dahj is skeletonized just as the explosion goes off. Its hard to catch, but you can just make out her skull, clavicle, and ribs as the fireball engulfs her. So, seems likely she really is dead.
     
    Uhura's Song and SJGardner like this.
  17. Unimatrix Q

    Unimatrix Q Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    Location:
    Germany
    Read an interesting theory on reddit today, that the dog is actually Q ;)
     
    Paul Weaver and Guy Gardener like this.
  18. Cake

    Cake Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2010
    McCoy might be an outlier age wise. Like nowadays there are a bunch of 110+ years old people. The oldest living woman is currently 117 and the oldest living man 112. Still the average worldwide life expentancy is only 70 years for men and 75 for women. In the EU the average is higher with 78 years for men and 84 for women and in other richer countries it is the same.

    I guess it might be the same in the future, just a bit higher. There might be some really old people, but the most common dying ages are between 100 and 120. That would make Picard old and not middle age anymore.
     
  19. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    I like to talk about genetic fallout form the Eugenics war.

    Supermen in hiding, making babies with triple life spans.

    So really, if McCoy's advanced age is because his grandmother was a super woman, then 5 generations later, the effects of the supermen on the genepool is going to be far less potent, so there are less superhuman, who themselves are less superhuman, outliers and the mean life expectancy for 24th century humans is falling.
     
  20. Serveaux

    Serveaux Boomer American Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2013
    Location:
    Go die on that hill.
    When Soji "acitvates" she will suddenly have all of Dahj's memories.