crossovers that could've worked
- Thread starter The Four Doctor
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Doctorwhovian
Fleet Captain
Well, the Bond films have always sort of had continuity problems. Not only do Bond, Felix and Moneypenny change quite a few times (Although with M and Q it seems more like an assigned designation as we see Desmond's (Who died the same month the film came out) Q pass the torch to Cleese's Q in TWINE, who is then referred to as Q in Die Another Day).
There's sort of a loose continuity with Connery-Lazenby-Moore, as at least Connery and Moore were close in age, and of course they had the same Q and Moneypenny (Moore's M changes, but this was mainly due to Bernard Lee's passing, and it's possible the second actor wasn't "Miles" but another guy, possibly Hargreaves from The Spy Who Loved Me. So you can sort of,. despite the radical change in tone and performance, kind of accept Moore as the older Connery. However Dalton takes over in the next film, along with a new Moneypenny, both of whom look much younger, although Moore's M, Q, the minister and Gogol (Although in a cameo, more or less) remain.
I see the Craig Bonds as a bit like the Star Trek reboots, they sort of keep some aspects of the old continuity while trying some new things.
There's sort of a loose continuity with Connery-Lazenby-Moore, as at least Connery and Moore were close in age, and of course they had the same Q and Moneypenny (Moore's M changes, but this was mainly due to Bernard Lee's passing, and it's possible the second actor wasn't "Miles" but another guy, possibly Hargreaves from The Spy Who Loved Me. So you can sort of,. despite the radical change in tone and performance, kind of accept Moore as the older Connery. However Dalton takes over in the next film, along with a new Moneypenny, both of whom look much younger, although Moore's M, Q, the minister and Gogol (Although in a cameo, more or less) remain.
I see the Craig Bonds as a bit like the Star Trek reboots, they sort of keep some aspects of the old continuity while trying some new things.
I've always been of the opinion that every new Bond reboots the universe slightly, you could even argue that the Connery Bond in diamonds is strictly speaking a different 007 to the one we saw in You Only Live Twice.
I've always worked on the assumption that the stuff that happened before did happen to the new guy, just maybe differently. This is kinda born out by the fact Tracy is referenced twice in the Moore films, and once for Dalton. Obviously with Daniel Craig the reboot is a lot harder, he's a new agent so you can't imagine these other things happened to him (or you can, you just have to figure they happened between Quantum of Solace and Skyfall, though the probable appearance of Blofeld in Spectre may even scupper this.)
I've always worked on the assumption that the stuff that happened before did happen to the new guy, just maybe differently. This is kinda born out by the fact Tracy is referenced twice in the Moore films, and once for Dalton. Obviously with Daniel Craig the reboot is a lot harder, he's a new agent so you can't imagine these other things happened to him (or you can, you just have to figure they happened between Quantum of Solace and Skyfall, though the probable appearance of Blofeld in Spectre may even scupper this.)
As for the Bond "Marvel Time" - Goldfinger definitely happens before Skyfall, as M references it in regard to the DB5. M and Q are definitely designations, not individuals - Ms occasionally refer to their predecessors in the role (and there's an explicit changeover of M in Skyfall), while Q simply stands for Quartermaster. (Desmond's actual character name is Major Boothroyd, in both FRWL and TSWLM at least.)
I sort of drunkposted the following on LJ and Rumblr in May last year:
" If James Bond is a Time Lord...
Which the movie version definitely is, then...
I'd been thinking, while reading William Boyd's "Solo", that I'd love to see/write a Bond regeneration story (yeah, like they'd ever licence *that*!), and it struck me that something else that needs to be figured out for Time Lord Bond is which incarnation is which.
See, obviously Daniel Craig is the first incarnation, as he's the one who originally becomes a 00-ranked agent.
Connery, Lazenby, Moore and Dalton have to be in that order, as the first three of them share the same M, as do the last two (with the Robert Browning M), and Moneypenny. All four share the same Q. Moore has to follow Lazenby because both TSWLM and FYEO reference Tracy's death in OHMSS. This also means Diamonds Are Forever actually comes before OHMSS in the Connery Bond's personal timeline.
There's nothing to say there can't be other incarnations between them, though.
The Brosnan incarnation is an awkward fucker, because he's around at the same time as the Dalton one, offering the best chance for a Two Bonds story (the Goldeneye precredit sequence is set in 1986, the year before The Living Daylights.)
This leads to the question of whether he has access to his TARDIS. At some point he has to travel back from the 21st century to at least 1962, and since Brosnan is around at the same time as one of his other incarnations, that suggests a spot of time travel. (It's also necessary if you want to count NSNA as canon, since that means that post-NSNA in 1983 he has to travel back to 1969 for OHMSS...)
I think about this stuff too much, don't I?
But I still want a regeneration story, and a multi-Bond story!
Maybe the DB5 is his TARDIS - Well, the DB5 is definitely proof of timey-wimeyness, given that Craig has it in 2012, before it being issued to Connery in 1964...
Before anybody asks, M and Q are not Timeys - M is just the designation for the head of Service (in real life it's C, after Mansfield Cumming, so the M probably is named for him too), while Q simply stands for Quartermaster - also, Robert Browning appeared before becoming M, so is probably the same character, while Cleese's character became known as Q after his predecessor's retirement.
Moneypenny, OTOH, is up for grabs as a Time Lord, but it's as likely to be a family line.
Interestingly, the Judi Dench M in the three Craig films isn't necessarily the same one from the four Brosnan films... Since in Skyfall she was head of the Hong Kong station in 1997, while a different Judi Dench M was head of service at the same time! Twin sisters, obviously. Or clones. Orphan M.
And this is me sober...
Some fucker's going to make me write this pseudonymously, I can tell.
he gets revenge on Blofeld in DAF, but there's no specific reference to Tracy or the events of OHMSS - but there is in FYEO, so *that's* where he gets that revenge. DAF is presumably just revenge for the shit he's pulled before that.
Presumably the two Dench Ms are sisters – Barbara Mawdsley and something else Mawdesly – with the sister who was head of Station H in 1997 taking over as Head of Service in 1999 after Babs had been kidnapped by Elektra King and Renard. Babs would surely have been pensioned off after that, just in case."
I sort of drunkposted the following on LJ and Rumblr in May last year:
" If James Bond is a Time Lord...
Which the movie version definitely is, then...
I'd been thinking, while reading William Boyd's "Solo", that I'd love to see/write a Bond regeneration story (yeah, like they'd ever licence *that*!), and it struck me that something else that needs to be figured out for Time Lord Bond is which incarnation is which.
See, obviously Daniel Craig is the first incarnation, as he's the one who originally becomes a 00-ranked agent.
Connery, Lazenby, Moore and Dalton have to be in that order, as the first three of them share the same M, as do the last two (with the Robert Browning M), and Moneypenny. All four share the same Q. Moore has to follow Lazenby because both TSWLM and FYEO reference Tracy's death in OHMSS. This also means Diamonds Are Forever actually comes before OHMSS in the Connery Bond's personal timeline.
There's nothing to say there can't be other incarnations between them, though.
The Brosnan incarnation is an awkward fucker, because he's around at the same time as the Dalton one, offering the best chance for a Two Bonds story (the Goldeneye precredit sequence is set in 1986, the year before The Living Daylights.)
This leads to the question of whether he has access to his TARDIS. At some point he has to travel back from the 21st century to at least 1962, and since Brosnan is around at the same time as one of his other incarnations, that suggests a spot of time travel. (It's also necessary if you want to count NSNA as canon, since that means that post-NSNA in 1983 he has to travel back to 1969 for OHMSS...)
I think about this stuff too much, don't I?
But I still want a regeneration story, and a multi-Bond story!
Maybe the DB5 is his TARDIS - Well, the DB5 is definitely proof of timey-wimeyness, given that Craig has it in 2012, before it being issued to Connery in 1964...
Before anybody asks, M and Q are not Timeys - M is just the designation for the head of Service (in real life it's C, after Mansfield Cumming, so the M probably is named for him too), while Q simply stands for Quartermaster - also, Robert Browning appeared before becoming M, so is probably the same character, while Cleese's character became known as Q after his predecessor's retirement.
Moneypenny, OTOH, is up for grabs as a Time Lord, but it's as likely to be a family line.
Interestingly, the Judi Dench M in the three Craig films isn't necessarily the same one from the four Brosnan films... Since in Skyfall she was head of the Hong Kong station in 1997, while a different Judi Dench M was head of service at the same time! Twin sisters, obviously. Or clones. Orphan M.
And this is me sober...
Some fucker's going to make me write this pseudonymously, I can tell.
he gets revenge on Blofeld in DAF, but there's no specific reference to Tracy or the events of OHMSS - but there is in FYEO, so *that's* where he gets that revenge. DAF is presumably just revenge for the shit he's pulled before that.
Presumably the two Dench Ms are sisters – Barbara Mawdsley and something else Mawdesly – with the sister who was head of Station H in 1997 taking over as Head of Service in 1999 after Babs had been kidnapped by Elektra King and Renard. Babs would surely have been pensioned off after that, just in case."
James Bond is a timelord haha that's my opinion and I stick with that.
A cross over with Blake's 7 would have been cool. Could the Doctor topple the Federation?
That was a great show but what a downer of an ending.
A cross over with Blake's 7 would have been cool. Could the Doctor topple the Federation?
That was a great show but what a downer of an ending.
Yes, this I know. But it's a later addition after the designation. (and half of it was ghost-written by Kingsley Amis in the edit...)
And the James Bond Junior animated series
Doctorwhovian
Fleet Captain
The Bernard Lee M was called Miles by Gogol in The Spy Who Loved Me so that's kind of film canon too.
Spy Who Loved Me also gave us Q's last name (Boothryd) which was also the last name of the armorer in Dr.No, so the characters I think were meant to be the same.
Spy Who Loved Me also gave us Q's last name (Boothryd) which was also the last name of the armorer in Dr.No, so the characters I think were meant to be the same.
The trouble is that the producers keep intimating that M relates to the character's name, which was never supposed to be the case, as Lonemagpie says the head of SIS is traditionally C after Cumming (same as the head of MI5 is traditionally K after the first DG of MI5 Vernon Kell).
Unless MI6 only promotes people whose first or surnames begin with an M
Unless MI6 only promotes people whose first or surnames begin with an M
The trouble is that the producers keep intimating that M relates to the character's name, which was never supposed to be the case, as Lonemagpie says the head of SIS is traditionally C after Cumming (same as the head of MI5 is traditionally K after the first DG of MI5 Vernon Kell).
Unless MI6 only promotes people whose first or surnames begin with an M
Of course they do the bigots, they're alphaphobics
The trouble is that the producers keep intimating that M relates to the character's name, which was never supposed to be the case, as Lonemagpie says the head of SIS is traditionally C after Cumming (same as the head of MI5 is traditionally K after the first DG of MI5 Vernon Kell).
Unless MI6 only promotes people whose first or surnames begin with an M
Gareth Mallory, most recently...
As Boothroyd and Q - the actor from Dr No wasn't available for FRWL which is how he came to be recast, so yeah they're supposed to be the same person (as opposed to the Cleese version, who is definitely not, but gets promoted to Q after his predecessor's retirement.)
Doctorwhovian
Fleet Captain
Too bad Cleese didn't really work out as Q-mainly a casulty of the reboot I think, which was going for a more serious, less gadget-laden approach (Although the recent films do still have their share of advanced technology such as the med kit in Casino Royale, and the computers in Quantum and Skyfall, not to mention the Goldfinger car and radio Bond uses in the latter- but nothing quite as goofy as the Vanquish/"Vanish" Invisible car).
Whishaw seems to be doing OK so far though IMO.
Whishaw seems to be doing OK so far though IMO.
Which would totally ruin the mystery
Though this does make me want to redub at least a scene with Wookiee noise over the companion dialogue, to see how funny it ends up being...
^ 
I immediately thought of the Ten/Rose farewell scene from Doomsday.
I immediately thought of the Ten/Rose farewell scene from Doomsday.
Doctorwhovian
Fleet Captain
A Star Wars crossover would actually work pretty well, the Star Wars series is set in some vague past in a faraway galaxy, as the intro states "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away".
Not a problem for the TARDIS!
Unfortunately not really likely to happen, even in print/book form. Apart from the subtle Indiana Jones references and vise versa (Which makes sense since they're both from Lucasfilm), pretty much), I don't think the Star Wars license has ever officially crossed over with anything, unless you count the toys and games (Those Transformers from a few years back and the lego games, plus the brief scene in the movie. The latter at most is parody, and really no more canon than the Family Guy or Robot Chicken parodies).
Not a problem for the TARDIS!
Unfortunately not really likely to happen, even in print/book form. Apart from the subtle Indiana Jones references and vise versa (Which makes sense since they're both from Lucasfilm), pretty much), I don't think the Star Wars license has ever officially crossed over with anything, unless you count the toys and games (Those Transformers from a few years back and the lego games, plus the brief scene in the movie. The latter at most is parody, and really no more canon than the Family Guy or Robot Chicken parodies).
Which Indiana Jones reference? and which movie scene? I want to see them, now I'm curious