we have heard quite enough about masochism recently
Continuing to Discover Doctor Who
- Thread starter S. Gomez
- Start date
You should enjoy at least half of it. Four out of six of the stories are generally well received while two of them are generally disliked. I personally enjoy the whole thing, particularly The Pirate Planet and The Armageddon Factor.
So let's assume, for the heck of it, that I wanted to try seeing the whole season-long epic The Key To Time. Should I expect to enjoy it?
It suffers a little from the whole budget crunch problem that's affecting all of British television (all of Britain, come to that, and a good part of the world) at the time. So long as you can get past that, then there are some real gems in Key to Time.
Ribos Operation looks dreadfully cheap in places, but has some of the most affecting character syou could imagine.
Pirate Planet is Douglas Adams in full flight, though some of the actors then head even further OTT.
Stones of Blood is a good creepy story that then turns into somethign else twice.
Androids of Tara is a prime example of Doctor Who putting its own twist on an old story and getting something new - the favourite story of new series writer Gareth Roberts.
Power of Kroll is weak, but worth watching to look out for the better story it could have been (a real political satire on gunrunning) - and also to spot quite how much of it writer Robert Holmes recycled into his next script, The Caves of Androzani.
Armageddon Factor fails as an all action overblown finale, but has an immense number of good SF ideas and some great performances (balanced by some dreadful ones!)
Having said all that, I love Invasion of Time despite the tackiness, and you weren't keen, so... ;-)
Haha! Don't worry. We can like some of the same things even if we disagree on others.
ABSOLUTELY!So let's assume, for the heck of it, that I wanted to try seeing the whole season-long epic The Key To Time. Should I expect to enjoy it?
Oh, gosh. Pirate Planet was the first Doctor Who story I ever saw, and the only thing that kept me sitting there all four nights was a promise I'd made to a friend to try Doctor Who. Trust me, this episode is not the one for a brand-new potential Whovian to see first! And since I still hadn't been introduced to the whole Douglas Adams brand of humor, I was even more lost... But now that I have been, and seen Pirate Planet several times, I see the interesting ideas behind the story. It's also a good satire on economics.
Indeed. The character of Binro, for instance. That was a lovely nod to Galileo there. And as much as I didn't really care for the First Romana, I did like how she and the Doctor were introduced and how she acquired her name.
Poor Mr. Fibuli...
This is my favorite of the Key to Time stories, and one of my favorite Doctor Who stories ever. Amelia Rumford is a hoot -- I've often thought she would have made an interesting Companion.
I used to have a hat similar to the one Romana wore in this episode, but somebody stole it.
I also like the hat the High Priest had, and some day I might make one like it.
It was nice to see K-9 get in on the action.
Power of Kroll has some of the worst "special effects" I've ever seen, and I could never take this story seriously -- even the serious elements.
This episode did have one interesting element that has kept fans discussing it for decades... the Doctor's real name. Does he have one, or was it a nickname, or some other designation...?
And it also provided the rationale for Romana's regeneration from Mary Tamm into Lalla Ward (which means you should watch Destiny of the Daleks right after this one, as the two have that connection).
So let's assume, for the heck of it, that I wanted to try seeing the whole season-long epic The Key To Time. Should I expect to enjoy it?
Can't say I was that impressed with it actually, expecially the first five stories.
The Ribos Operation - A bit on the dull side but does introduce Romana 1.
Pirate Planet - Actually has some quite good plot twists (for it's time). Certainly not one to watch when in serious mode, as it's even more silly then some of most silliest new Who stories, what with a robot parrot that kills people by cra**ing on them.
Stones of Blood - The ori are weirdly threatening. Other then that though it's a bit dull.
Androids of Tara - not bad but not that good either.
Power of Kroll - Nice idea for a monster, some nice satire. Not too bad.
I rather liked Armageddon Factor personally. For old Who it feels like a departure from it's usual story telling roots, feeling stylistically and plotwise more like a contemporary sci-fi/fantasy season finale (something which I don't think Doctor Who ever had). You even have you're uber evil big bad.
Most of it's just "meh". No bad stories, but only one maybe two good ones.
I watched Destiny of the Daleks over the weekend and thought it was pretty decent. First full 4th Doctor serial I've seen and the first time I've ever even seen Romana - glad she turned out to be worth all the adulation I always see going for her.
The pacing was slower than I was expecting but didn't bother my new-Who brain too much. Running around those corridors wheeling Davros along was great fun, but I think having Julian Bleach as my first creator of the Dalek race has probably ruined the earlier ones for me. He didn't seem very menacing, and his fate was... well, I thought his fate in Destiny left a lot to be desired. I mean, "not even you can escape cryogenic freezing Davros!" is a bit naive on the Doctor's part isn't it?
Still, overall I was really satisfied with Destiny - it surpassed all my expectations, having come in with only Curse of Fenric, half of The Deadly Assassin and The Five Doctors to my old series name!
What does everyone think of this serial, out of curiosity?
The pacing was slower than I was expecting but didn't bother my new-Who brain too much. Running around those corridors wheeling Davros along was great fun, but I think having Julian Bleach as my first creator of the Dalek race has probably ruined the earlier ones for me. He didn't seem very menacing, and his fate was... well, I thought his fate in Destiny left a lot to be desired. I mean, "not even you can escape cryogenic freezing Davros!" is a bit naive on the Doctor's part isn't it?
Still, overall I was really satisfied with Destiny - it surpassed all my expectations, having come in with only Curse of Fenric, half of The Deadly Assassin and The Five Doctors to my old series name!
What does everyone think of this serial, out of curiosity?
The Key To Time: The Ribos Operation
Hmm. Not bad. Not bad at all. At least the pacing was much better, and the writing I thought worked a lot more in the story's favour than in The Invasion of Time. It wasn't quite up to the earlier Tom Baker stuff--but then what is, I guess? And a large-bodied, witty rascal is always a plus, despite being something of a cliche. Mary Tamm as Romana was pretty good, and the chemistry with Baker isn't bad (I say this before knowing any details as to what their actual relationship was like offscreen; I do know she leaves after this season...). Not to mention she's quite beautiful. All of this, and still I'm afraid to say I just don't like K-9 very much. He seems a little pointless to tell you the truth. I know he actually does do things in the course of this story (and probably others) but he just doesn't interest me at all as a character; I know he isn't technically supposed to be one, but that's probably part of the problem...
Another thing I have to admit is that I'm starting to find my interest in Doctor Who at this point in time waning slightly. Not that I don't love the show anymore, just that other interests are slowly creeping in and taking up some time; one reason why I haven't posted as many reviews lately. I think maybe I'll watch to the end of Tom Baker's run and take another short break so I can come back to it all afresh. I dunno, though, I have come this far...
Hmm. Not bad. Not bad at all. At least the pacing was much better, and the writing I thought worked a lot more in the story's favour than in The Invasion of Time. It wasn't quite up to the earlier Tom Baker stuff--but then what is, I guess? And a large-bodied, witty rascal is always a plus, despite being something of a cliche. Mary Tamm as Romana was pretty good, and the chemistry with Baker isn't bad (I say this before knowing any details as to what their actual relationship was like offscreen; I do know she leaves after this season...). Not to mention she's quite beautiful.
All of this, and still I'm afraid to say I just don't like K-9 very much. He seems a little pointless to tell you the truth. I know he actually does do things in the course of this story (and probably others) but he just doesn't interest me at all as a character; I know he isn't technically supposed to be one, but that's probably part of the problem...Another thing I have to admit is that I'm starting to find my interest in Doctor Who at this point in time waning slightly. Not that I don't love the show anymore, just that other interests are slowly creeping in and taking up some time; one reason why I haven't posted as many reviews lately. I think maybe I'll watch to the end of Tom Baker's run and take another short break so I can come back to it all afresh. I dunno, though, I have come this far...
Yeah man, take a break. No need to rush it. You're trying to cram in thirty-years-worth in only a few months. And given that most of the older episodes are like mini-movies (2+ hrs), and that there is some padding in most of them, I can TOTALLY understand why you would get burned out.
I suggest maybe finishing this Key to Time season, and then take a break for awhile. When you come back you'll have the 2nd Romana era to look forward to, not to mention dovetailing on into the Peter Davison era...
I suggest maybe finishing this Key to Time season, and then take a break for awhile. When you come back you'll have the 2nd Romana era to look forward to, not to mention dovetailing on into the Peter Davison era...
Robert Holmes is the master of the large-bodied, witty rascal. Season 16 contains two of them, in fact, though his best is yet to come...
The Key To Time: The Pirate Planet
By the left frontal lobe of the sky demon, that was pretty fantastic! I didn't know it going in, so when Douglas Adams' name appeared in the main title I gave a little whoop for joy (knew he wrote/script edited for Doctor Who, just not that this one was written by him). Needless to say, I wasn't disappointed. I could certainly detect the Adams touch all over this one, and it certainly didn't seem out of place in the world of the Doctor. The dialogue was especially sharp here; I particularly liked "Newton's avenged" and the ensuing explanation of who Newton was. It wasn't without it's problems, of course: the story's technicalities didn't always make sense even in the realm of fantasy let alone seem plausibly believable (I still don't know why Zanak wasn't destroyed when an explosion occurred in its centre, or exactly how Xanxia was able to get a new body... no, please, don't bother to explain, I never will get it). Still, to quote a phrase: "Crude? Yes... but immensely satisfying!"
By the left frontal lobe of the sky demon, that was pretty fantastic! I didn't know it going in, so when Douglas Adams' name appeared in the main title I gave a little whoop for joy (knew he wrote/script edited for Doctor Who, just not that this one was written by him). Needless to say, I wasn't disappointed. I could certainly detect the Adams touch all over this one, and it certainly didn't seem out of place in the world of the Doctor. The dialogue was especially sharp here; I particularly liked "Newton's avenged" and the ensuing explanation of who Newton was. It wasn't without it's problems, of course: the story's technicalities didn't always make sense even in the realm of fantasy let alone seem plausibly believable (I still don't know why Zanak wasn't destroyed when an explosion occurred in its centre, or exactly how Xanxia was able to get a new body... no, please, don't bother to explain, I never will get it). Still, to quote a phrase: "Crude? Yes... but immensely satisfying!"
I'm glad you enjoyed it!
The Pirate Planet was one of the first serials I ever saw as a kid and I had fond memories of the linear induction corridor, which I still love. I also love the idea of the outer shell of the planet being a ship, jump from planet to planet to devour the resources.
The Pirate Planet was one of the first serials I ever saw as a kid and I had fond memories of the linear induction corridor, which I still love. I also love the idea of the outer shell of the planet being a ship, jump from planet to planet to devour the resources.
Don't get too discourage with the classic versions of Davros yet; David Gooderson was just not right as Davros, and Destiny is a very weak serial overall. Julian Bleach's Davros aspires to Michael Wisher's performance in Genesis of the Daleks, IMO.
And yes, Romana II and her regeneration was by far the best thing about Destiny.
The Movellans and the hundreds of years long war and stalemate were great too.
Think I'll have to go back for Genesis next.
Think I'll have to go back for Genesis next.
The Key To Time: The Ribos Operation
Hmm. Not bad. Not bad at all. At least the pacing was much better, and the writing I thought worked a lot more in the story's favour than in The Invasion of Time. It wasn't quite up to the earlier Tom Baker stuff--but then what is, I guess? And a large-bodied, witty rascal is always a plus, despite being something of a cliche. Mary Tamm as Romana was pretty good, and the chemistry with Baker isn't bad (I say this before knowing any details as to what their actual relationship was like offscreen; I do know she leaves after this season...). Not to mention she's quite beautiful.
Another thing I have to admit is that I'm starting to find my interest in Doctor Who at this point in time waning slightly. Not that I don't love the show anymore, just that other interests are slowly creeping in and taking up some time; one reason why I haven't posted as many reviews lately. I think maybe I'll watch to the end of Tom Baker's run and take another short break so I can come back to it all afresh. I dunno, though, I have come this far...
There's no point watching if you don't enjoy. I don't think I've watched a Doctor Who story since Journey's End, as I've been busy lately. It's always there if I want.
Ribos is my favourite of the Key to Time series. It's a classic Robert Holmes story in which everyone is scamming everyone else, and there are numerous double acts. Ian Cuthbertson is brilliant - talk about scene stealing. It's great how the Graff Vynda-K always seems to be yelling "Sholakh!"
I love the imagination of the world building here - a planet where it's winter for half the year. There are great costumes too, and the language used all helps to create a viable planet. Dudley Simpson's music is also some of his best.
And then there's Binro, who's probably the most touching character the series has seen. The scene where he's told he was right all along always gets me.
I do agree about K9. I think he has to be used sparingly if at all, but this is one of those stories where you get the impression he was a late addition. Where he's specifically written for - like The Pirate Planet - he's not so bad.
This one was pretty slow in 1979 - that's Terry Nation's writing for you.
I think Destiny is a bit of a missed opportunity in some ways. It's entertaining, but by no means a classic. David Gooderson doesn't convince as Davros, and there are rather too many 'jokes' that Adams and Baker no doubt inserted.
I love the Movellans - I imagine their national anthem is 'Lost My Heart to a Starship Trooper'. They are ripe for a return in the new series.
The serials I've watched since (Androzani and Castrovalva) were far better in terms of pacing and quality. Destiny certainly could have done more than it did, but I dunno - I'd be surprised if it's the worst Dalek serial there is...
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