Not the mention Kirk making a rookie mistake of not raising shields. If they needed Khan to get an advantage on the Enterprise, they should have come up with something different.
Consolidated Trailer Thread
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Not the mention Kirk making a rookie mistake of not raising shields. If they needed Khan to get an advantage on the Enterprise, they should have come up with something different.
Gary Mitchell, man! Gary "My oldest/bestest friend" Mitchell!Other episodes you're leaving out:
Conscience of the King: Kirk was one of those deemed 'worthy by Governor Kodos (aka Kodos the Executioner). I'd say that's 'facing death' - and I'm sure some of Kirk's friends were in the group deemed necessary to die so others can live. It had such an effect on him the speech he had Anton Karidian (who yes, turned out to be Kodos) read for the voice test was written from Kirk's memory - so that time he faced death had a large impact on him.
Obsession: Here we find that 11 years earlier while serving aboard the USS Farragut as a young lieutenant, Kirk and the Farragut crew encountered a Gaseous Creature The encounter killed half the Farragut crew (including Captain Garrovick, who was a hero and role model to Kirk), with Kirk and the ship's first officer among the survivors.
^^^
Again, another time where Kirk faced death and the loss of a number of comrades and a mentor/father figure he looked up to at that time. It had such an effect on him, when he encountered the same creature again, he became obsessed with killing it - and was willing to do so even if it cost others lives (the 1701 was supposed to rendezvous with another ship that had perishable medicine that was needed to stop a plague on a Federation planet.
I could list a few more examples from TOS - but yeah I found that line of Kirk's in STII:TWoK to be a bit ridiculous - still do.
And? That only confirms what I said about TMP ignoring the age issue. Setting it only a few years after the show is part of the problem.
It isn't an outrageous thought. It is more in line with the ages of the actors, and I feel it better reinforces Kirk's thirst to be a captain again and the massive refit. If anything it would make sense if there was ten years between the series and then another ten years to TWoK.
I think the novel authors have a consensus that "Turnabout Intruder" happens in 2269, TMP in 2273, and TWOK in 2285, Khan's "15 years" line notwithstanding.
I tend to go with a short time period between TOS and TMP. Based on Decker's "you haven't logged a single star hour in two-and-a-half years" and Kirk's "five years, out there" lines.
Circumstantial, but it is what feels right to me.
Oh yeah, that makes a good amount of sense too.
Memory Alpha also seems to prefer the earlier date for TMP.
I wasn't going to put this up as a lot of this discussion does take place elsewhere but amongst a myriad of threads, but I think there are some elements/observations that haven't been discussed and my overall positive reaction is probably unusual! Apologies for the sound error at the end but I was making the point that trailers are not always reflective of the final product, you just need to watch a TNG episode trailer to see how that is the case.
See the timestamps for various observations:
Desert robes 00:35 Series timeline 00:47 There was Discovery 01:03 New communicator 01:23 USS Shenzou starship 01:33 New transporter effect 02:25 New warp effect 02:34 New uniform 02:48 Rank and new badges 02:54 Shenzou crew 03:16 Discovery crew 03:26 Closer look at the bridge 04:25 New aliens 04:47 New viewscreen 05:14 EVA suit 05:23 NCC-1227 05:59 Klingon starship? 06:14 Klingon sarcophagus ship 06:22 Klingon with hair 06:40 New-look Klingons 07:11 Klingon symbols 08:16 We have engaged the Klingons 08:23 Burnham Vulcan link 09:02 Shenzhou corridor 09:54 Sonic attack 09:56 Klingon death ritual 10:05 Klingon diversity in look 10:13 Shenzhou robot/android? 10:28 New touchscreen controls 10:44 Starfleet doesn't fire first 10:45 Photon torpedo 11:14 Saru senses death? 11:29 Bat'leth fight 12:03
See the timestamps for various observations:
Desert robes 00:35 Series timeline 00:47 There was Discovery 01:03 New communicator 01:23 USS Shenzou starship 01:33 New transporter effect 02:25 New warp effect 02:34 New uniform 02:48 Rank and new badges 02:54 Shenzou crew 03:16 Discovery crew 03:26 Closer look at the bridge 04:25 New aliens 04:47 New viewscreen 05:14 EVA suit 05:23 NCC-1227 05:59 Klingon starship? 06:14 Klingon sarcophagus ship 06:22 Klingon with hair 06:40 New-look Klingons 07:11 Klingon symbols 08:16 We have engaged the Klingons 08:23 Burnham Vulcan link 09:02 Shenzhou corridor 09:54 Sonic attack 09:56 Klingon death ritual 10:05 Klingon diversity in look 10:13 Shenzhou robot/android? 10:28 New touchscreen controls 10:44 Starfleet doesn't fire first 10:45 Photon torpedo 11:14 Saru senses death? 11:29 Bat'leth fight 12:03
I always thought TWOK was an example of the only way they can make someone (Khan in this case) look smart, is to make the opponent stupid. Then they turn it around with Khan's 2D tactics. If he'd come from the 19th century that would make some sense as he'd only be used to naval battles. But for someone from the 20th century who would be familiar with aerial battles and was found by Kirk on a spaceship it's ridiculous.
This has nothing in particular to do with the trailer, but I spoke with Jeffrey Combs at the weekend at a con, and he said that he hadn't been approached to appear on Discovery, and didn't see it as very likely that he would appear. Firstly, he cited the Michael Dorn story where he was offered an 'insulting' amount to appear, and secondly he said that the feeling is that the show is going for an 'out with the old, in with the new' vibe - they're keen to avoid just being another incarnation of 90s Trek. He seemed a little bitter about this, if I'm honest.
Now, whether Combs was merely speculating or had any kind of basis for this I don't know, but thought I would share it anyway.
Now, whether Combs was merely speculating or had any kind of basis for this I don't know, but thought I would share it anyway.
Which is exactly what I want from Discovery. No offense to actors who have played roles in the past but I don't want to see Jeffery Combs or James Cromwell yet again as a different character.
I couldn't bring myself to click the Like button for this, so a thanks will have to suffice.
I like Jeff Combs. I think he did some amazing work on Trek. But I agree with the idea that this Star Trek is something new. It should try to be its own thing and not rely on stunt casting of past Star Trek alumni.
Just my opinion, of course.
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