Consolidated Trailer Thread

[cultcross]

Honestly, I was kind of shocked by how much I thought the trailer felt like Star Trek.

Very much so. In fact, it could hardly be any more generically Star Treky if it tried. In the space of a couple of minutes we had Captains and commanders have the career conversation, flip communicator, beam me up Scotty, warp signatures, Treky looking ships, Klingons, Klingon symbols, Starfleet deltas, standard bridge layouts, Vulcans, pro exploration soundbites, and forehead aliens. What could be more Star Trek?

 

[Mirror Mirror]

Very much so. In fact, it could hardly be any more generically Star Treky if it tried. In the space of a couple of minutes we had Captains and commanders have the career conversation, flip communicator, beam me up Scotty, warp signatures, Treky looking ships, Klingons, Klingon symbols, Starfleet deltas, standard bridge layouts, Vulcans, pro exploration soundbites, and forehead aliens. What could be more Star Trek?

Best breakdown of the trailer yet!

 

[fireproof78]

Why is something that is trying to do its own thing considered a "spit in the face"? I would've liked something stylistically closer to TOS, but I don't think the creators making different choices is them somehow trying to offend me.

I tend to agree. I am genuinely confused by this idea that the creators making style choices as "spitting in the face." By that argument, TWOK should be rejected outright.

 

[Zeppster]

I tend to agree. I am genuinely confused by this idea that the creators making style choices as "spitting in the face." By that argument, TWOK should be rejected outright.

TWOK dealt with deep themes and was one of the best written movies of all time. This looks like another version of Kelvin verse films which were fluff films not really dealing with any real message.

 

[Nerys Myk]

TWOK dealt with deep themes and was one of the best written movies of all time. This looks like another version of Kelvin verse films which were fluff films not really dealing with any real message.

The Kelvin films are just as deep as TWOK. If you missed that, you weren't paying attention.

 

[fireproof78]

TWOK dealt with deep themes and was one of the best written movies of all time. This looks like another version of Kelvin verse films which were fluff films not really dealing with any real message.

Disagree on all counts. ST 09 dealt with father figures, among other themes.

Secondly, TWOK completely redid the design aesthetic of the uniforms, with little reference to the TMP ones. If one was to judge the film solely on aesthetics, as Discovery is right now, then TWOK should be rejected outright for ignoring GR's "vision" and "disrespecting" what came before.

 

[F. King Daniel]

After watching some Trekyards videos about the trailer. I found something to describe them in a nutshell: "It's too advanced". They say that a lot.
But it's not a bad channel. I'm looking forward to DIS.

Trekyards are incapable of seeing Trek outside of their very narrow idea of right and wrong. I watched their Pacific 201 videos, a fan film explicitly with a unique look and feel, essentially reimagining Star Trek, and every question was about how something was supposed to fit in with prior Trek canon.

Their Franklin videos with Sean Hargreaves can be summed up as, "Why is X when previous Trek had Y?", "X is X because I was told to put X in there, and I was doing my job." over and over

 

[Campe]

TWOK [...] was one of the best written movies of all time.

That seems... hyperbolic.

Look, I'm all for granting that TWOK can be a fun entertaining movie. I'm even okay with suggesting that it's people's favorite Star Trek movie. Or even people's favorite movie. That is all subjective. But there are a lot of tighter, better written scripts than TWOK. It's full of a lot of contrivances, a moustache twirling villain, plot holes and questionable dialogue.

I'm not dissing the film when I say that. I enjoy TWOK. But it's far from perfect.

 

[BillJ]

TWOK dealt with deep themes and was one of the best written movies of all time.

Without the scene chewing from Shatner and Montalban, TWOK would be remembered as a miserable failure. The script is laughably bad.

 

[Tenacity]

I'm not dissing the film when I say that. I enjoy TWOK. But it's far from perfect.

As you said, subjective.

 

[Devilpogostick]

Watched the trailer and...I can't ignore the "our species only unique function is sensing death and I'm sensing it now." Alien bridge crewmember.

A part of me can rationalize this trait but another is already making up Troi jokes along the way.

And that's really his species sole function? ...This is one depressing species.

 

[jamestyler]

That seems... hyperbolic.

Look, I'm all for granting that TWOK can be a fun entertaining movie. I'm even okay with suggesting that it's people's favorite Star Trek movie. Or even people's favorite movie. That is all subjective. But there are a lot of tighter, better written scripts than TWOK. It's full of a lot of contrivances, a moustache twirling villain, plot holes and questionable dialogue.

I'm not dissing the film when I say that. I enjoy TWOK. But it's far from perfect.

^ Yep. Undiscovered Country in terms of plot, feeling and everything else is far more 'Trek' than most of the films. TWOK is good, but it's a plot that could fit in anywhere wrapped up in Star Trek dressing.

It's painful to think that many people see a revenge movie as the holy bible of Star Trek.

 

[Jedman67]

^ Yep. Undiscovered Country in terms of plot, feeling and everything else is far more 'Trek' than most of the films. TWOK is good, but it's a plot that could fit in anywhere wrapped up in Star Trek dressing.

It's painful to think that many people see a revenge movie as the holy bible of Star Trek.

TUC's plot was incredibly straight-forward. Parts of the script were pretty ham-fisted as well. Sure it was a nice trek movie, but there wasn't much subtlety. Personally, I think TWOK was better overall.

 

[Mage]

TWOK dealt with deep themes and was one of the best written movies of all time. This looks like another version of Kelvin verse films which were fluff films not really dealing with any real message.

Overly-attached former dictator that can't shut his damned mouth wants to get even with 'mid-life crisis' Kirk. Hell yeah, that movie is deep......

 

[fireproof78]

TUC's plot was incredibly straight-forward. Parts of the script were pretty ham-fisted as well. Sure it was a nice trek movie, but there wasn't much subtlety. Personally, I think TWOK was better overall.

The themes are very well woven throughout TWOK, but I prefer TUC with the character work that is going.

 

[Mage]

^ Yep. Undiscovered Country in terms of plot, feeling and everything else is far more 'Trek' than most of the films. TWOK is good, but it's a plot that could fit in anywhere wrapped up in Star Trek dressing.

It's painful to think that many people see a revenge movie as the holy bible of Star Trek.

Totally agreed!!

 

[jamestyler]

TUC's plot was incredibly straight-forward. Parts of the script were pretty ham-fisted as well. Sure it was a nice trek movie, but there wasn't much subtlety. Personally, I think TWOK was better overall.

The themes are very well woven throughout TWOK, but I prefer TUC with the character work that is going.

^ @fireproof78 has the same thoughts I do, though I'd add that the best themes in TWOK come down to getting old. TUC advanced that quite a bit from old to obsolete - but instead of being part of the story that could have easily been thrown away, to TUC the ageing was the movie; neither had subtlety, but the politics and theme of TUC were far stronger than the simplistic "good v bad" set up.

Granted, it all comes down to personal taste and opinion - but in a fandom so obsessed with 'the message!' or Star Trek, as much as I enjoy TWOK, I will never understand why so many see this revenge plot as the holy grail above more substantial stories.

 

[Jedman67]

Probably it has to do with Montalbo and Shatner's acting chops moreso than anything else, as someone mentioned above.
Even though the themes may have been a bit simplistic, it was executed and cut quite well. TUC was good, but the acting wasn't extraordinary (except for Chang, he was an outstanding villian!!)

 

[fireproof78]

For me, the acting in TUC stands out, because I feel like each character can stand on their own. But, again, that might be responding to different acting talents too.

TWOK just isn't as enjoyable for me.

 

[Noname Given]

TWOK dealt with deep themes and was one of the best written movies of all time. This looks like another version of Kelvin verse films which were fluff films not really dealing with any real message.

Really? (make no mistake I LOVE STII: TWoK); but:
"TWOK dealt with deep themes and was one of the best written movies of all time."
Hahahahahaha!

I'm sorry, but "ionsane man on a quest for revenge" is hardly deep; and Kirk saying "I've never faced death...not like this..."; is only true if you disregard some of the BEST TV episodes of TOS. As for STII:TWoK's other issues:

- The U.S.S. Reliant's sensors SOMEHOW fail to discern that Ceti Alpha VI BLEW up (probably left a debris field too) and shifted the orbits of the other planets in the Ceti Alpha system (Why? Because without that mistake that causes Chekov and Co. to believe Ceti Alpha V is Ceti Alpha VI Kahn would never escape to trhreaten Kirl/move the plot along.)

- The character of Chekov was never in "Space Seed" (a first season TOS episode. Chekov was added in TOS second season. So there's no way Kahn "never forgot his face" because Kahn never SAW it.)

- EVERYONE of Kahn's augments is younger than him and blonde. Go back and look at the 73 that were released in "Space Seed" - they're a mix of ethnicity from around the Globe. Plus with Ceti Alpha VI exploding six months after they were left there...what - every female was somehow pregnant and they all gave birth to Blonde children and died?

- I acttually also have an issue that NO OTHER ENGINEER in the Engineering Room can "Get the MAINs back online." The "Mains"weren't blown offline unexpectedly - Scotty took them offline. Hell is ANY OTHER Star Trek show - all it would have taken was the press of a few buttons on a Console - but no, ONLY Spock (because the writers and Nimoy at the time wanted this) can wade into the Engineering Room and fix the "MAINs".

Again, I find it enjoyable, and good Star Trek, but "Well written with Deep Themes"...no.