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Spoilers Coda Trilogy Discussion Thread

As someone else who once closed out an era of fiction once said, “This is an imaginary story… Aren’t they all?” I think Alan Moore said that to remind us that all stories are out there, and they never go away. I can wish Coda ended happier, but as the weeks have gone by, I’ve realized that it doesn’t matter what I think of as “happy”, what matters is that they saved the day. Not without sacrifice, but life goes on. And if all stories are imaginary, including our own, then I’m happy to be saved by Jean-Luc Picard.
 
I finished reading the third book last night.
Oh. My. God.

The whole trilogy was a needless demolition, imo.

I surmise that it was less of an effort to "wind things down with class" and more of a "let's scuttle this ship before the new-powers-that-be get their hands on it and let's do it in a way they'll think is epic-cool".
I found the transition to the "Picard timeline" in the last few paragraphs rather insulting, truth be told*.

The books had zero character development beyond "they died lol", and it absolutely didn't matter because it was all being erased anyway.
What kind of way is that to write a novel? It's insane.

I will say that I loved the idea of the timeline splitting from that certain event in 2373. It also had a few excellent moments (Data & Geordi, Worf & K'Ehleyr aka she-whose-name-I-can-never-spell-without-looking-it-up), but other than that... it was rough.
15+ years of work ended, and ended like this in one massive "and it was all just a dream". Good bloody god.

This was not a solid ending. This was simply "...but that's ok, because none of them ever existed."
The TNG relaunchverse deserved so much better. Even being left hanging would have been preferable. That would at least have left the door open for future revisits without resorting to even greater in-universe magical handwaving.

*Yes, I loathed the Picard show. It just doesn't work and ably demonstrates how weak his character is without the rest of the old cast. TNG was an ensemble show, not the Picard show.
 
Somewhere, Richard Arnold's ghost is dancing at the idea of the novelverse destroying and erasing itself.

We've seen dozens of timelines "erased" in Trek before, it didn't make what those adventures any less real than any others. "Yesterday's Enterprise" and "All Good Things" are two of TNG's finest moments, and neither timeline survived the episode and none of the regular characters ever knew they happened (with the exceptions of Picard and Guinan)

Which is fine...except those were always one episode each (two at the outside), not 15+ years of work from multiple authors!


Even if they have been wiped from the memory of the universe, they are still remembered by the multiverse.

That's the thing.... because of the events of this trilogy, they never existed at all. It wasn't just a case of "they were removed from time", they were straight up stopped from existing in the first place, all to pull the rug out from under the devidians, all of whom still exist.
Ultimately, they didn't really stop them at all.
 
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Reading these debates find myself thinking for no reason I can readily elocute of a quote from Lance Parkin’s Doctor Who novel The Infinity Doctors:
‘What’s the point of controlling a universe without meaning, where nothing of any consequence ever happens? Why shed tears when someone dies if they can be brought back, why cheer on your favourite team when if they lose they can also win? I don’t want to be a god.’
‘You are weak.’
The Doctor shook his head. ‘Answer me this, Omega: what’s the opposite of matter?’
‘Anti-matter,’ Omega replied instantly.
‘Wrong, wrong, wrong. The opposite of matter is “doesn’t matter”.’ The Doctor sighed. ‘That’s what we’ve created - a universe where everything is nothing. A universe where nothing matters. Of course you can rewrite history, but you shouldn’t. As long as you have these great powers, nothing is real.’
 
Well, that's that. Coda brings down the curtain on 20 years of reading Trek books that I had no idea was going to happen when news of the DS9 relaunch and Avatar grabbed my interest so long ago.

I have to agree with the assessment that the first half of those years was stronger than the second, the mess with the Ascendants and the Destiny time jump took some recovering from, then along came the Hobus mess, that finally gets resolved and then along comes the Picard series to kill it all off. Whatta a revoltin' development. Still, the books play the cards they get as best as they can and that is what happened, time after time. Does Coda erase all that? I can understand the view that it does, that my angle of greatest angle of interest DS9 did get shortchanged - I became hooked by so many other litverse strands but DS9 is where it started - but, for me, it succeeds on the final pages, with that sequence with the Prophets' remembering all of it. That works for me, as does the final, final pages with Benny Russell.

Does it all work? No. The Riker plot was unbalanced, it went on too long in the negative and the endpart with Riker back wasn't quite enough. Books 1-2 were stronger for me than Book 3, which staggered with the erasing of the timeline plot addition. That threw a spanner in the gears despite my expecting.... something. Talking of which, this was cleverly marketed. From the way the last Voyager books played out, I was suspecting Krenim temporal manipulations - I was, I suppose, half right. I was expecting a fair bit of carnage, that also played out. The smart move was telegraphing this generally, but not specifically. Knowing the type of story this was going to be informed my response to it, but did that stop any of the deaths stinging? Nope, and that is testimony to the writing. Each of them felt fitting, but none more so than that set for Klag and Martok.

Does it then work as a finale? For me it does. I can't say I followed all of the time travel stuff across the trilogy but that's also part of the fun too. The Borg earth worked well too. As to the future of my interest in Trek generally, this, combined with the changes to how TV Trek is accessed, with Paramount slinging it onto their to-be-launched-at-some-point streamer and that I lost all interest in Discovery with that terrible Georgiou two-parter in series 3, does all add up to a rather perfect jumping off point. I don't want to add another streaming subscription, I can't say I'm grabbed by Picard - as a freebie bundled with Amazon Prime? Ok, as something to be paid for separately? Nope.

It's been a strange pattern of activity across the various corporate properties. Star Wars. Star Trek. Aliens. Terminator. Bond. All with various revivals, but which also tended to involve burning down what came before without putting much onto the scorched earth that resulted. Invariably, in the case of Bond, it'll reboot, probably true for a couple of the others too. Wars? My interest in that will probably reduce with the end of the High Republic which I've really enjoyed, but continue with the odd D+ miniseries. For Trek books? This is the end of the line but an end like this, where corporate reboots are concerned, so rarely happen. For that I have to give the writers and Pocket Books their due, they did not have to do this. I'm happy that they did.
 
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I find myself thinking of Ecclesiastes. No, not the "for everything there is a season" stuff; rather the "everything is vanity" stuff.

And (as I may have mentioned) also of The Last Battle, by C. S. Lewis.
 
I surmise that it was less of an effort to "wind things down with class" and more of a "let's scuttle this ship before the new-powers-that-be get their hands on it and let's do it in a way they'll think is epic-cool".

That's not true at all, there's been several interviews with the authors on this.
They didn't want to leave the lit'verse hanging, like LucasFilm did with the Star Wars EU.
 
Literary Treks assembled our crew to discuss the trilogy together amongst ourselves! We hope you enjoy it!
lt-336-th-wide.jpg
 
I just finished reading the last book a few days ago . I'm glad the authors got to wrap up the book storylines for Tng and Ds9 and the other series.I liked Spock and Saavik were in the books. I'm glad they brought back Sisko, Kira and Bashir and other ds9 characters an gave them good storyarcs in the books. Also Data and Lal brought back and the hints of events for Star Trek Picard season one .I'm listening to your podcast right now.I'm glad the writers got to wrap up several ds9 storylines that were resolved at long last.
 
I don't post much here but feel compelled to do so in this thread. I have read so many of the Coda threads and have been struggling to figure out how I feel about Coda as a whole. What is below may simply be a bit of stream of consciousness rambling, but it probably is the best I can do.

I will start by saying that I consider the "Time's Arrow" episodes of TNG to be among the weakest of the cliffhanger two-parters in the series. They never resonated with me and I found the Devidians to be a very weak and underdeveloped species/enemy. So, the choice of using them as being the ultimate enemy in Coda already turned me toward the negative side of things. To go further, I saw very little resemblance between the "Time's Arrow" Devidians and the Coda Devidians. They could have been completely different for all that I saw any resemblance. I know some of that was explained in Coda, but it just didn't click for me.

I will agree with much of what others have said. The relentless death and the overwhelming sense of finality that permeated these books just wore on and wore on. I completely understand that our heroes are making the ultimate sacrifice, nobly pushing past their own hopelessness in order for the greater whole to survive.There is, most assuredly, something beyond noble in that and I thought the various authors (especially Mr. Mack) brought this through admirably. But, it was not well balanced against the relentlessness of the death and destruction. Yes, we are talking about the end of...everything. That is, by definition, death and destruction. But, it seemed to be mostly what the books were about.

Others have already pointed out how the battles between our characters and the Nagas just ended up being repetitive. I agree. Honestly, I came to think that if I never hear the word "Naga" again, it will be much too soon. I wanted more. I completely understood how overwhelming the Nagas were and the stakes associated with that. I didn't need to be continuously reminded if it. I would have much preferred, even in the context knowing that everything was going to end, to have so many more quiet moments with our characters. I wanted to see how this was affecting their relationships and how they were dealing with that. I wanted to give them their final moments with those that they loved and have it be something more than sacrifice. Instead, what I kept feeling was I was being told "and then this happened and then this other thing happened and then this thing that was very much like the prior thing happened" etc, etc, etc.

Don't get me wrong. I think the books were very well written within the context of what they were. Instead, I am saying that that context was off the mark.

I very much enjoy going back and re-reading books. I have nearly ever Star Trek novel ever published (I'm not going to claim I have them all, but I do have the vast majority) and I have read most of those books at least twice, if not more. But, I can honestly say I don't think I will re-read Coda. It truly did not resonate with me in a way that makes me want to revisit it.

As others have said, we don't know what the marching orders were that were provided to the authors from the publisher and from CBS. But, I would have vastly preferred there to be some grand final adventure, that had very real stakes (even to the potential loss some of our beloved characters), but was eventually overcome through these characters working together and being hopeful. The ending would then imply that their own adventures would continue, but that they were in a place now where we would not be revisiting them. And, I would have much preferred this grand tale to involve the TrekLit characters to a much higher degree in relation to the TV characters than what we got here. The purpose here was to wrap up the TrekLit continuity after all, so those characters unique to that continuity should have had a much bigger role to play.

But, that's not what we got. And, it is what it is.

I am sorry if this sounds like I don't appreciate the effort that the authors made to provide us with some sort of closure. I actually do very much appreciate that effort. They obviously felt they were telling the best tale they could to provide closure. Just because it didn't appeal to me doesn't invalidate the hard work they put into it. Heck, I am not an author and I cannot pretend to tell them how to do their jobs. So, I do want to say "Thank you" for the work and the opportunity.

And, I do want to end on a high note. Mr. Mack, the ending you provided to your book, the trilogy and, indeed, all of TrekLit was an immensely beautiful thing. Getting the chance to read so many of Picard's "memories" and then getting to see Benny Russell transition from TrekLit into the begnning of the PIC story did—genuinely—bring tears to my eyes. If nothing else, the trilogy was worth it for those last few pages alone.
 
I just finished reading the last book a few days ago . I'm glad the authors got to wrap up the book storylines for Tng and Ds9 and the other series.I liked Spock and Saavik were in the books. I'm glad they brought back Sisko, Kira and Bashir and other ds9 characters an gave them good storyarcs in the books. Also Data and Lal brought back and the hints of events for Star Trek Picard season one .I'm listening to your podcast right now.I'm glad the writers got to wrap up several ds9 storylines that were resolved at long last.

Thanks for listening! We also talked to all the authors for each book as well, so we covered this from all perspectives!
 
In continuing to read this thread and the others related to the three final books of the First Splinter / Litverse, one theme of our responses stands out to me and I'd like to acknowledge the wonder of this and to pay gratitude to those who deserve such.

Many of us have posted numerous reactions that can be summed up as: The author-created characters came to mean as much to us as the television-canon characters.

Looking back, I'd posit that, at the outset in 2001, it was anything but a fait accompli that the introduction of these new characters throughout the "series" novels would be greeted so warmly and welcomed so openly by fans of Trek. Remarkable indeed that twenty years later many of us no longer distinguish between the screen and the literary characters when it comes to why we've continued to invest time and money and ourselves in their stories.

I won't and likely can't name them all but with these characters and their journeys--
Thirishar ch'Thane, Elias Vaughn, Prynn Tenmei, Taran'atar, Treir, Sam Bowers, Lonnoc Kedair, Christine Vale, Dr. Ree, Ranul Keru, Zurin Dakal, Devi Patel, Nancy Conlon, Aytar Gwyn, Hugh Cambridge, Bryce Phinnegan, Regina Farkas, Decan, Nanietta Bacco, Gell Kamemor
--I experienced twenty years of joy, laughter, tears, and wonder . . . all of which I am eternally grateful to:

Andrew J. Robinson
J. G. Hertzler & Jeffrey Lang
S. D. Perry
Keith R. A. DeCandido
David Weddle & Jeffrey Lang
David R. George III
Heather Jarman
Michael A. Martin & Andy Mangels
Una McCormack
Robert Simpson
J. Noah Kym
David Mack
Olivia Woods
Dayton Ward & Kevin Dilmore
Christopher L. Bennett
J. M. Dillard
Peter David
Geoffrey Thorne
William Leisner
Kirsten Beyer
James Swallow
John Jackson Miller

I hope I did not miss any authors. If I have, it is my oversight and not intended.

And the great thing is I can experience all that again when I decide to revisit this twenty-year masterpiece by simply pulling a book off the shelf.

D. Browning Gibson
 
Crap . . . I had also meant to add Marco Palmieri, Margaret Clark, and Ed Schlesinger to the list of luminaries.
DBG
 
Kind of testimony to how many people have been involved in this grand 20-year undertaking that you can't easily list them all because there's so many.
 
I agree with a lot of what has been said here.

I really enjoyed the first two books in the trilogy. I found the third one a lot harder to get through as it was well written but just too bleak for me overall.

I totally understand the real world need for the litverse going away, and was on board for a last stand send-off where some characters died, but I would have much rather had some characters survive and live on never to be visited again. I understand the appeal of the idea of undoing everything as a writing experiment but I personally don’t think that made for an enjoyable finish. I heard an interview where readers were referred to as being in the denial or bargaining stages of grief if they weren’t happy with how this ended, but as a consumer I think we are allowed to just not like the decisions made here.
 
Personally I think the problem with Coda is that the writers were squarely in the anger stage of grief.
Maybe.
Why do I get the feeling Coda is gonna be remembered like the Blake's 7 finale?:lol:
Haven't the slightest idea. I've heard of Blake's 7, but what little understanding I have of what it's about, I just now obtained from Wikipedia, and it doesn't give me much interest in finding out any more about it. (As with Curb Your Enthusiasm, I have no enthusiasm to curb.) I wonder: could Blake's 7 and the Liberator be the reason (or at least a reason) why Roddenberry had such an aversion to 3-nacelle ship designs?
 
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