Chivalry: It's dead, Jim.

[Tiberius Jim]

Wrong. Reread my post. I specifically said that I don't do it because I want a better chance at a date with the girl. Most of the time the women I offer my seat to are far older or simply not my type. Besides (yes Hermiod, *now* I am mentioning it) I have a girlfriend, so your theory that I do it to get laid isn't valid. The guys who *do* do it to score are admittedly very lame.

As far as traditions go, I believe some traditions are worth holding on to. This is one of them.

Then you can be the stand up while women who don't care about you sit down. Meanwhile, the ones who did notice, like SGx and An Officer can rest comfortably knowing that if the guy didn't like the looks of them, he would be sitting down doing his Sudoku by now.

Somebody needs to take a Reading Comprehension class. I *just* said in the very text that you quoted that I don't base whether or not I give up my seat upon the physical appearance of the woman.

 

[Hermiod]

Wrong. Reread my post. I specifically said that I don't do it because I want a better chance at a date with the girl. Most of the time the women I offer my seat to are far older or simply not my type. Besides (yes Hermiod, *now* I am mentioning it) I have a girlfriend, so your theory that I do it to get laid isn't valid. The guys who *do* do it to score are admittedly very lame.

As far as traditions go, I believe some traditions are worth holding on to. This is one of them.

Then you can be the stand up while women who don't care about you sit down. Meanwhile, the ones who did notice, like SGx and An Officer can rest comfortably knowing that if the guy didn't like the looks of them, he would be sitting down doing his Sudoku by now.

Somebody needs to take a Reading Comprehension class. I *just* said in the very text that you quoted that I don't base whether or not I give up my seat upon the physical appearance of the woman.

So you say. Your other posts on this subject, specifically your behaviour towards sidious618 contradict you.

You say you do it because it's traditional, well you need to look at the root of the tradition before you follow it.

 

[sidious618]

Hermiod raises an interesting point when he says you need to look at where the tradition came from. It came from two sources:

1- Women were viewed as naturally weaker and inferior and needed help to do pretty much anything.
2- Acting kind towards her was for her father's benefit so he would give his daughter to the man. It really had little to do with the woman's feelings.

 

[Tiberius Jim]

Traditions stay around, but that doesn't mean we do them for the same reasons.

If sombody sneezes, I say "Bless you." I'm not *actually* blessing them. I say it because it's the polite thing to do.

 

[Lindley]

Red card for the 'w' word. Nobody here is "whining".

And yet, the thread starts going downhill immediately after this claim.

 

[sidious618]

Traditions stay around, but that doesn't mean we do them for the same reasons.

If sombody sneezes, I say "Bless you." I'm not *actually* blessing them. I say it because it's the polite thing to do.

I say it, too, but I wish I didn't because it's stupid. It's just ingrained.

 

[Hermiod]

Hermiod raises an interesting point when he says you need to look at where the tradition came from. It came from two sources:

1- Women were viewed as naturally weaker and inferior and needed help to do pretty much anything.
2- Acting kind towards her was for her father's benefit so he would give his daughter to the man. It really had little to do with the woman's feelings.

Bingo.

Red card for the 'w' word. Nobody here is "whining".

And yet, the thread starts going downhill immediately after this claim.

Not taking the blame this time. The thread started off at the bottom of the hill and started digging by the end of the first post. Are you suggesting people are "whining" just because they disagree with Flux Capacitor ? Really ?

 

[Holdfast]

Wow, did this thread just get napalmed or what?

I love it.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

I don't believe I mentioned anything about myself in the quoted text. If you can find anything that's specifically about me in that sentence, let me know.

Every word you've posted has been about you.

Wow wow wow. Are you suggesting that this has been all about him trying to show off his skills with women and how he's better than us? Oh, say it ain't so.

Based on all of your posts I think it's fair to presume the guy has more experience with women than either of you. Certainly more class. But he never stated he did.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Meh. Why must every thread about chivalry devolve in sexist remarks against women, or men, or every flavor in between? Isn't it contrary to the very definition of chivalry?

If you whine about chivalry, you are not chivalrous. Period.

Red card for the 'w' word. Nobody here is "whining". Flux asked a question and people have answered it with a very consistent answer - just being a woman does not entitle you to special treatment.

In my many thousands of train journeys, the whining, albeit of the silent variety, normally comes from people who pile on to crowded trains during the rush hour expecting a seat like it's their god given right, glaring at the people who got on the train earlier than they did.

Public transport systems in a lot of major cities have capacity problems during peak times. Sometimes you are not going to be able to sit down.

Maybe I did not used the correct word, I apologize for that.

I was referring to the tone of these kind of threads, all the proclaims and generalizing and grand-standing: "I let women seat because it's the RIGHT THING to do!" "I do NOT let women seat because it's patronizing and downgrading!"

Meh. Either way, you are making an ass of yourself by using it to take a stand. Give your seat; don't give it; nobody is going to give it a flying fuck but yourself. But when you start talking about your reasons to make yourself feel better, you are missing the point of being chivalrous. (just for clarity, not you you, the general you).

IMO. YMMV. And another whole lot of acronyms.

 

[Hermiod]

Based on all of your posts I think it's fair to presume the guy has more experience with women than either of you. Certainly more class. But he never stated he did.

He didn't have to.

Besides, unless giving up your seat on public transport is, as most of us who are against it suspect, part of some sort of ridiculous attempt to attract women then what has his "experience" with women got to do with the subject at hand ?

 

[sidious618]

Based on all of your posts I think it's fair to presume the guy has more experience with women than either of you. Certainly more class. But he never stated he did.

 

[Hermiod]

Maybe I did not used the correct word, I apologize for that.

I was referring to the tone of these kind of threads, all the proclaims and generalizing and grand-standing: "I let women seat because it's the RIGHT THING to do!" "I do NOT let women seat because it's patronizing and downgrading!"

Meh. Either way, you are making an ass of yourself by using it to take a stand. Give your seat; don't give it; nobody is going to give it a flying fuck but yourself. But when you start talking your reasons to make yourself feel better, you are missing the point of being chivalrous.

IMO. YMMV. And another whole lot of acronyms.

I do choose not to give my seat up to make myself feel better, but not for the reasons you suggest. I'm not making a stand, I'm making my knees and back not hurt, which happens when I stand up for a long time.

I go to great lengths to avoid peak times on public transport. I get up a 5:30am and am at work by 6:45am because I can't stand crowded trains.

 

[SGx]

Nobody is saying anything about being subservient...

SGx is quite clearly suggesting that men behave this way in order to gain some kind of advantage over other men and not because it's some nice thing to do.

Hey, don't twist my words like that. You know that's not what I said.

I agree with Flux, it is nice to do nice things for people. Traditionally it's considered nice to give up your seat for a girl. Not obligatory, but nice. If you saw a girl get on the train and stood up to let her sit down, she would think you were a nice guy. If you saw a guy on the train and stood up for him to sit down, he'd think you were crazy.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Thank God I don't have to use public transportation anymore.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Nobody is saying anything about being subservient...

SGx is quite clearly suggesting that men behave this way in order to gain some kind of advantage over other men and not because it's some nice thing to do.

Hey, don't twist my words like that. You know that's not what I said.

I agree with Flux, it is nice to do nice things for people. Traditionally it's considered nice to give up your seat for a girl. Not obligatory, but nice. If you saw a girl get on the train and stood up to let her sit down, she would think you were a nice guy. If you saw a guy on the train and stood up for him to sit down, he'd think you were crazy.

You are correct, sir!

 

[Hermiod]

Nobody is saying anything about being subservient...

SGx is quite clearly suggesting that men behave this way in order to gain some kind of advantage over other men and not because it's some nice thing to do.

Hey, don't twist my words like that. You know that's not what I said.

And I quote:

And, for obvious reasons, if you treat girls nice, you're more likely to get one.

So, yeah, that is what you said.

I agree with Flux, it is nice to do nice things for people. Traditionally it's considered nice to give up your seat for a girl. Not obligatory, but nice. If you saw a girl get on the train and stood up to let her sit down, she would think you were a nice guy. If you saw a guy on the train and stood up for him to sit down, he'd think you were crazy.

Because of outdated, nonsense traditions.

 

[Tiberius Jim]

If being polite is outdated then I will happily consider myself "out of date". At least I'm not cynical and bitter.

 

[Trekker4747]

If you saw a girl get on the train and stood up to let her sit down, she would think you were a nice guy.

Oh, gee! She'll think I'm nice! Wow, ya think! Do you think she'll pick it flowers over me or draw her name with heart around me?

"Mrs. Random Guy On The Bus Who Gave Me A Seat. Hmmm. I think I kind of like it!"

Sorry, I don't buy it. If she looks distressed or something, I'd give up the seat. Otherwise she can stand. Sorry, but what about being me means *I* should be the one to stand? Just because I don't have a vagina means I don't get a seat on a bus? What about having a vagina entitles one to special treatment?

I'll carry heavy packages for female friends/family members but that's not out of any act chivalry but more because -frankly- women tend to be physically weaker than most men and simply CAN'T easily carry heavy pacakages.

I hold doors open for people of all ages, sexs, and color simply because doing so is nice. I don't even expect a thank-you when I do it and I don't care if I do not get one.

But giving up my seat on public transportation just because someone happens to be female? Bullshit. I paid my fare, same as hers, if she's got two working legs she can stand.

Again, the exception being people where it'd be physically painful/difficult to stand (elderly, injured) or pregnant women (who's bodies are under enough strain as it is.)

But an able-bodied woman who's not with child? She can stand.

Women want to be treated as equals? Well there it is, enjoy it. No one would give up a seat for ME.

 

[An Officer]

Meooow Hermiod, Trekker4747 and sidious618, saucer of milk for you...