Characters you wanted to see in the MU

[Quinton O'Connor]

Well, not to get all "near-infinite number of parallel realities" on you, considering I don't think that's mentioned in relation to the Mirror Universe. But who's to say something else didn't happen to transpire in the 'wrong' direction, elsewhere in the galaxy, just by chance? Or we could go with the Butterfly Effect for a more plausible in-universe relation and ponder that one for a while.

Of course, the MU was always a separate breed from the 'Stargate SG-1 with Sam Carter citing real scientific theories' variety, so maybe nothing would happen to the Dominion because nothing is supposed to within the MU parameters.

 

[DevilEyes]

Well, not to get all "near-infinite number of parallel realities" on you, considering I don't think that's mentioned in relation to the Mirror Universe. But who's to say something else didn't happen to transpire in the 'wrong' direction, elsewhere in the galaxy, just by chance? Or we could go with the Butterfly Effect for a more plausible in-universe relation and ponder that one for a while.

But that something else would mean another alternate universe branching out from that so-called "Mirror Universe". In the DS9 episodes, we were supposed to believe that they were always going to just that same universe and that it was the same universe from TOS "Mirror Mirror" (the one that is usually called "Mirror Universe").

According to TNG "Parallels", there are many other alternate universes. We see several of them in the episode. The latest Star Trek movie features another alternate universe, only this time we know exactly when it branched out...

And these are just the canon ones. There are plenty of others in the books, comics and games. "Myriad Universes" books are based on the very idea of many alternate universes. One novella presents a universe where Khan won and Earth became a powerful imperialistic khanate of genetically engineered supermen, another one a universe where Terra Prime achieved their dream of an isolationist Earth, another one a universe where the Voyager crew was forced to find a home in the Delta Quadrant instead of looking for the way to get back home, another one explores what Dominion war would be like in a universe where Cardassians discovered the wormhole and never left Bajor... and so on...

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

That book sounds awesome.

Well, I had a feeling this would happen: my many years mostly away from Trek have caught up with me and you've done a fine job debunking... whatever it is... I said before. I'm on TNG Season Six and DS9 Season One right now in reacquainting myself with the 24th Century, so yeah.

 

[DevilEyes]

^ There are two Myriad Universes collections so far (Infinity's Prism and Echoes and Refractions), each contains 3 novellas. The third book is supposed to be published later this year.

There's also a comics miniseries called The Last Generation... I haven't read that one yet..

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Myriad_Universes

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

I'll add them to the list. I just recently made my first couple of forays into Trekkian literature.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Mirror Weyoun hates the Mirror Founders and dedicates his life to crushing them.

For some reason, I imagine Mirror Weyoun like, married with five kids or something. That would be appropriately bizzare.

That does sort of work, in a twisted way. Weyoun as a gentle, soft-spoken loving father and a loyal husband, just living the quiet life somewhere- I can see it. And it is really bizarre, but somehow it still works for me (as an image, mind you, not as the character we know).

Too mind-screwy for the MU, though. It's more like a Farscape episode...

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Hell yeah, Farscape mention.

Farscape mentions always elicit a 'hell yeah' from me.

 

[DevilEyes]

Mirror Weyoun hates the Mirror Founders and dedicates his life to crushing them.

For some reason, I imagine Mirror Weyoun like, married with five kids or something. That would be appropriately bizzare.

That does sort of work, in a twisted way. Weyoun as a gentle, soft-spoken loving father and a loyal husband, just living the quiet life somewhere- I can see it. And it is really bizarre, but somehow it still works for me (as an image, mind you, not as the character we know).

Too mind-screwy for the MU, though. It's more like a Farscape episode...

(Sorry, haven't seen Farscape so I don't know what you mean, but...)

That sounds a bit like a weird Frame of Mind-like (or maybe Future Imperfect-like?) hallucination, caused by someone screwing with Weyoun's mind... Does telepathy work on the Vorta? How about mind-altering drugs?

Or maybe it's a holoprogram that someone convinced him to try out...

 

[Deranged Nasat]

For some reason, I imagine Mirror Weyoun like, married with five kids or something. That would be appropriately bizzare.

That does sort of work, in a twisted way. Weyoun as a gentle, soft-spoken loving father and a loyal husband, just living the quiet life somewhere- I can see it. And it is really bizarre, but somehow it still works for me (as an image, mind you, not as the character we know).

Too mind-screwy for the MU, though. It's more like a Farscape episode...

(Sorry, haven't seen Farscape so I don't know what you mean, but...)

That sounds a bit like a weird Frame of Mind-like (or maybe Future Imperfect-like?) hallucination, caused by someone screwing with Weyoun's mind... Does telepathy work on the Vorta? How about mind-altering drugs?

Or maybe it's a holoprogram that someone convinced him to try out...

The holoprogram idea quite catches my fancy...what a strange scenario...like Weyoun's having one of his odd "would it be more aesthetically pleasing if it were blue?" moments, but on a larger level. Trying to understand what's important to other races, and seemingly genuinely concerned - but yet in a manner that suggests it doesn't actually matter. That said, I wonder what Vorta do in their spare time? The deleted scenes and novels suggest they collect things and tinker with them, and generally hoard interesting stuff. Maybe Weyoun's hijacked a few children or abducted some subjects to play the Vorta equivalent of a tea party. "You be my family and I'll act out a scenario". Which he does with that quietly dedicated yet casual seriousness...

I mentioned Farscape because no-one does mind scew like Farscape. If DS9 were Farscape they'd end up in some odd reality where Weyoun would be a gentle librarian-type figure with a family. Just to be screwy for the sake of being screwy.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

That also means I don't think Dukat should be a good guy in the MU. I think he would love the MU where he can rule over slaves and create his fabricated reality where he sees himself as their harsh but fair benefactor. The only way I'd accept a kind Dukat is if the universe had a fundamentally different Cardassian Union than the one from the prime reality and nothing I've seen of the MU shown the Cardassian Union to be really much different from the TNG created bad guys.

I think it could be perfectly justifiable either way. In the particular story I found, apparently Dukat did not ascend through the military ranks, but went through the civil service for some reason. IF something in Cardassian history--due to interactions with the Terran Empire--went differently that prevented Dukat from being able to gain a foothold, it's possible this could've happened. It is also possible that Dukat's family reacted differently to being victimized in the past by Terrans, and maybe he got a conscience from being the victim instead of the oppressor.

The scenario you suggest also makes perfect sense. But I think it really could go either way.

(And of course for a fundamentally different Cardassia--one even more different than the MU--I think "Parallels" gives us that possibility and I have indeed taken it to the conclusion of a "good twin" of Dukat.)

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Mirror Weyoun hates the Mirror Founders and dedicates his life to crushing them.

And I also second or third or fourth the nominations for MU Dukat and MU Damar.

How about the Romulans? Are they the Vulcans of the MU?

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

That does sort of work, in a twisted way. Weyoun as a gentle, soft-spoken loving father and a loyal husband, just living the quiet life somewhere- I can see it. And it is really bizarre, but somehow it still works for me (as an image, mind you, not as the character we know).

Too mind-screwy for the MU, though. It's more like a Farscape episode...

(Sorry, haven't seen Farscape so I don't know what you mean, but...)

That sounds a bit like a weird Frame of Mind-like (or maybe Future Imperfect-like?) hallucination, caused by someone screwing with Weyoun's mind... Does telepathy work on the Vorta? How about mind-altering drugs?

Or maybe it's a holoprogram that someone convinced him to try out...

The holoprogram idea quite catches my fancy...what a strange scenario...like Weyoun's having one of his odd "would it be more aesthetically pleasing if it were blue?" moments, but on a larger level. Trying to understand what's important to other races, and seemingly genuinely concerned - but yet in a manner that suggests it doesn't actually matter. That said, I wonder what Vorta do in their spare time? The deleted scenes and novels suggest they collect things and tinker with them, and generally hoard interesting stuff. Maybe Weyoun's hijacked a few children or abducted some subjects to play the Vorta equivalent of a tea party. "You be my family and I'll act out a scenario". Which he does with that quietly dedicated yet casual seriousness...

HAH, this all sounds hilarious! Do Vorta even have spare time, I wonder?

The Vorta are one race I really wish had been explored more in cannon ... I totally did not know about the collecting/hoarding/tinkering thing ... I mean, I heard something about Weyoun doing it, but I did not know it was species-wide trait...

 

[Admiral Shran]

^ Well, if the point of divergence in the MU was something that happened on Earth and caused the creation of the Terran Empire... I don't see how that could have affected the Dominion at all, since they were in the Gamma Quadrant.

But there is no point of divergence; the MU is a completely seperate universe, not an altered timeline. Therefore, everything, even things in the Gamma Quadrant, can be different.

 

[DevilEyes]

^ Well, if the point of divergence in the MU was something that happened on Earth and caused the creation of the Terran Empire... I don't see how that could have affected the Dominion at all, since they were in the Gamma Quadrant.

But there is no point of divergence; the MU is a completely seperate universe, not an altered timeline. Therefore, everything, even things in the Gamma Quadrant, can be different.

Then why isn't everything different? How can there be another Bajor, and another Cardassia, and another Qu'onos, and another Earth?

 

[Admiral Shran]

^ In TNG: Parallels, how was it that all those different universes had Enterprises, and Worfs, and Rikers, etc.?

If there is a point of divergence from the "normal" universe, it could be as far back as the Big Bang, with Earth just getting caught in the crossfire, so to speak. I never got the impression (from TOS, DS9, or ENT) that there was something special about Mirror Earth that caused the MU to diverge.

The MU is just a parallel universe where things are slightly different. I'm sure that in the whole Trek multi-verse there is at least one universe where Earth, Bajor, Cardassia, and Qu'onos never existed.

 

[DevilEyes]

^ In TNG: Parallels, how was it that all those different universes had Enterprises, and Worfs, and Rikers, etc.?

Because they are all parallel universes that diverge from each other at some point because universe A is the universe where a certain event produced one consequence, and B is the universe where it produced the other one. (The same concept that "Myriad Universes" series is based on.)

I don't know what you mean by "altered timeline" here. I think of "altered timeline" as something that happens within the same universe in episodes like "City on the Edge of Forever", "Yesterday's Enterprise", "Children of Time", which are based on the idea that it is possible to change the timeline back and forth, but that two versions of events cannot exist simultaneously.

 

[Red Ranger]

Mirror Morn. He talks a blue streak and never shuts up!

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Mirror Morn. He talks a blue streak and never shuts up!

And despite this everyone insists that he's actually the quietist, most stoic guy around who really, really needs to loosen his tongue a bit.

 

[Admiral Shran]

I don't know what you mean by "altered timeline" here. I think of "altered timeline" as something that happens within the same universe in episodes like "City on the Edge of Forever", "Yesterday's Enterprise", "Children of Time", which are based on the idea that it is possible to change the timeline back and forth, but that two versions of events cannot exist simultaneously.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if there is a point of diverenge from the "normal" universe (a la Parallels), it was in the far, far distant past, or at least further back than the twenty-second century. It might have happened before Earth was even formed. That would explain how all the other races (not just Humans) were affected.

 

[DevilEyes]

I don't know what you mean by "altered timeline" here. I think of "altered timeline" as something that happens within the same universe in episodes like "City on the Edge of Forever", "Yesterday's Enterprise", "Children of Time", which are based on the idea that it is possible to change the timeline back and forth, but that two versions of events cannot exist simultaneously.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if there is a point of diverenge from the "normal" universe (a la Parallels), it was in the far, far distant past, or at least further back than the twenty-second century. It might have happened before Earth was even formed. That would explain how all the other races (not just Humans) were affected.

But we don't see any evidence that all other races were affected. The only differences are with those cultures that were affected by the Terran Empire. The Vulcans had been interacting with the Humans since the 21st century (and according to ENT, were conquered by Terrans by the 22nd centrury), the Halkans and the Gorn don't seem to be different, the Cardassians and the Klingons have presumably formed an alliance in order to fight the Terran Empire. Bajorans were also enslaved by the Terran Empire and liberated by the Klingon-Cardassian alliance, which explains their being their allies.

The only changes in the MU that we know of are those brought upon by the formation of the Terran Empire and its imperialistic policy in the Alpha Quadrant. There is no reason to think that the races that live in Gamma, Beta or Delta Quadrant were affected by it.