Changes: Post Count, Policy Updates, TNZ and a New mod

[Teelie]

Normally I would encourage that LL but since I'm not a mod or admin I can freely say that it's a rediculous and utterly pointless example to make. None of these rank obsessed members will see nor care you've shaved off 6,500 or so posts from your count, they didn't see Reno do it numerous times or Indi, and if they did, obviously they didn't care. Find something else to lead an example with. Maybe post IN the Trek forums?

[This message has been edited by The Lone Ensign (edited October 17, 2001).]

 

[LizardLaugh]

People are protesting this specific policy. The poeple complaining are not spammers. I am not a spammer either. Reaperman asked that the administration lead by example, and so I am. This isn't quite the same thing as Reno or Indi proving a point about rank. Reapie made a challenge to the administration, and I have accepted it. Something very specific.

 

[Teelie]

To me it still leads back to people thinking rank matters. In the end it leads back to post count and numbers mattering which is directly related to ranks. Maybe others see it different but to me doing anything with posts or rank like that is giving it credence to mattering, which it doesn't.

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by Jethro Elvis:
It seems that the large, large majority of people saying, "rank doesn't matter" are people who already have a high rank.

The signal this sends to lower ranking members, whether intentional or not, is "we have our rank. Now we have a policy to keep you from getting to where we are."

Precisely. Jethro Elvis' conclusions show deep introspection into the problem. Those with seniority see no problem with the changes. However, I don't think that anyone bothered to grasp the perspective of those with less rank prior to establishment of the new policy. Those with high rank advocating the policy changes -- the vast majority of those who have written in support -- seem insensitive and elitist.

 

[Reaperman]

Originally posted by The Lone Ensign:
Most of those with high rank have been here long enough to see how deterimental rank is. You and a few others obviously have not. Rank never mattered and those same people who keep saying it doesn't matter have always said it, since they were cadets or in some cases since it started.
Rank doesn't matter. It's a damned decoration for the board for gods sake.

Rank wouldnt matter, if we didn't have the lounges. We do, and they are rank based. I'm one of those members who prefer the lounges to the other areas, and make most of my postings there. They are smaller, and alot friendlier than most of the board, and I wouldnt like to see them go because of this new policy.

LizardLaugh, I'm backing down from my challenge. I was only making a point regarding differing views about the importance (or lack of it) of post count and rank. Don't make any hasty decisions on my account. Believe me, I'm not worth listening to.



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"Spelling should be pensioned off... it terrorises human beings from birth." - Gabriel Garcia Marquez

Trek Talk.

 

[Teelie]

Originally posted by habeas:
Precisely. Jethro Elvis' conclusions show deep introspection into the problem. Those with seniority see no problem with the changes. However, I don't think that anyone bothered to grasp the perspective of those with less rank prior to establishment of the new policy. Those with high rank advocating the policy changes -- the vast majority of those who have written in support -- seem insensitive and elitist.

I'm sure Jethro can be the first to tell you that most of the older members are supposedly against changes, which makes that invalid. Most of those who are against ranks have never cared about them.

 

[LizardLaugh]

Originally posted by Reaperman:
Rank wouldnt matter, if we didn't have the lounges. We do, and they are rank based. I'm one of those members who prefer the lounges to the other areas, and make most of my postings there. They are smaller, and alot friendlier than most of the board, and I wouldnt like to see them go because of this new policy.

LizardLaugh, I'm backing down from my challenge. I was only making a point regarding differing views about the importance (or lack of it) of post count and rank. Don't make any hasty decisions on my account. Believe me, I'm not worth listening to.

Then why did you make the challenge? Challenge or no challenge, rank doesn't matter, does it? Lisa elaborated above on the reasons behind this particular change in policy. No insult to the members. If the members are offended by it, I feel it is only fair that I follow the policy and 'lead by example'. If rank doesn't matter, it is not hasty of me, correct? I have been here a long time.

 

[Sector 001]

Originally posted by Lisa:

- Signatures: New clause - 'Please, keep your signature to two or three lines of text. Images are not allowed in signatures. An overly long or offensive signature may lead to an official warning.'

My first question is does the "no images" rule apply to my globe? I'm thinking that sort of thing is ok, since Bonz still uses her "wonderful"

avatar...but I just wanna make sure that these types of pics are ok

Secondly, yes, this changes are appropriate, however, the rules involving newer members will force some away. For instance, I have a friend who recently joined the board. He's still an ensign. Because of that, all of the restrictions affect him, and thus he has decided to leave since he doesn't know a whole lot about trek, and the process of posting and waiting is most bothersome.

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by Lisa:
Actually, Christian and Co were looking for a way to make getting up to 100 posts a more difficult task, to stop trouble makers being able to bypass the extended flood control, posting in TNZ and other restrictions on new members.

This was not about punishing people, downsizing the BBS or anythign like that - it was about curbing the number of hit and run trolls.

Post count and rank does not matter. It is simply a tool - the only tool recognised by the BBS scripts and thus the only way we have of controlling this - to identify who has been on the board for a length of time; and thus to stop trouble makers.

Though I know that explanation does not go anywhere to addressing the concerns of some, let me assure you that those were the reasonings used to reach this state. There's always antoher angle to look at things from.

If rank really does not matter, then why are there barriers in place in 10-Forward, making rank matter? It just doesn't make any sense. I just honestly believe that the 10-Forward segregation is violative of the spirit behind Star Trek and, presumably, the BBS.

 

[susannah]

Reaperman:

Going back to the point I was making about the Administration reducing their post count, why are you being so defensive? You say you don't care about post count, and I belive you. However, you and the other Admins/Mods do have a duty to the rest of the board, and should lead by example. Reduce your post count, or rescind the new policy.

I find it most amusing that you pick up on the one aspect of my original post that you don't really care about. I wonder why, when some of the other elements were actually constructive?

See, I feel that if I were to have my postcount reduced (if TPTB would even do it -- they made a rather clear statement that that will not be done anymore under any circumstances in the new policy revisions), it would be a bad example, because it would show I cared at all about it. I don't think I was being defensive, either. I'm a bit worn out arguing the whole issue in a zillion different threads.

BTW, I'm sorry you're stuck in a different lounge from some others (I'm not very happy about my own lounge, you know -- and don't take that the wrong way, Jethro, please). I also sympathize with your boredom with Akira class vs. Steamrunner class ships (good example). I haven't made a post myself in a Trek forum in some time (so, don't worry, y'all'll all catch me up in postcount sooner or later, LOL), what with infighting and other unpleasantness in the VOY, spoilers for TrekX in TNG and GTD. However, I do intend to when I finally get to be viewing Enterprise at the same time as most, come January.

As to constructive elements in your first post, I myself wouldn't mind the idea of stopping postcount at 100, as you suggested. However, I really have to tell you that I don't think that's going to happen.

Rank wouldnt matter, if we didn't have the lounges. We do, and they are rank based. I'm one of those members who prefer the lounges to the other areas, and make most of my postings there. They are smaller, and alot friendlier than most of the board, and I wouldnt like to see them go because of this new policy.

The lounges were introduced only for that smaller, friendlier atmosphere which you describe. It is very unfortunate that they have had the side effect of emphasizing rank. I don't really see how to avoid that without scrapping the lounges altogether. I don't really have an opinion one way or the other on keeping them, but I know that a lot of people really enjoy them, so I have no problem with them sticking around, even if I never visit my own.

 

[Guest]

LL's post count isnt her true figure anyway. She's been the victim of at least 2 server crashes that wiped out her profile, one I think, before she was even a mod. My own profile was wiped out when I became an admin. So indeed, our post counts are lower than they should be anyway.

 

[Guest]

You know, I'm a little surprised by Lisa's last response. It indicates that she has been reviewing the previous responses. Yet, and I really didn't want this to be critical, she has not actually addressed the specific concerns about rank and how it affects the lounges. Whether we like it or not, rank counts. The lounges are the primary example of this. I'm in agreement with my colleagues who support an end to the current lounge configuration. In a previous topic discussion, another BBSer had proposed a suitable solution -- end the lounges and attach the 10-Forward name to Miscellaneous. Such a change would actually support the contention of those that rank really doesn't matter.

I still, however, support the notion that postings should count in the Lounges/Miscellaneous. If you're going to adjust everyone's count, to account for previous postings in the Lounges or Miscellaneous or QSF or Announcements, fine. If not, don't penalize those who are now attempting to attain rank.

Honestly, if you adjusted mine, with all the postings I've made regarding the current BBS infrastructure, I'd probably be back down to an Ensign or Lieutenant. But that's fine, if it's going to be applied impartially to everyone.

 

[Reaperman]

Firstly, I'd like to apologise for the adversarial tone of my previous posts in this topic. I probably went a liitle too far in some of the things I said. I certainly didn't mean to start a war over post count, and dont feel that reducing anybodys count would be at all constructive. I, for one, am quite happy with my current count, as it allows me to post in the Commodores lounge with most of the people I joined with (with a few notable exeptions). It would therefore be hypocrtical of me to ask anybody to do something I would be unwilling to do myself. Believe it or not, I do appreciate the job that the Admins and Mods do on this board, under sometimes difficult circumstances, and understand the frustration they must feel everytime a new Troll or serial spammer appears on the scene.

I do agree with many of the new changes in policy, especially the moderation of TNZ. You've made a good choice in selecting plm135 along with LL to do that particularly difficult job. You must both be gluttons for punishment.

I just feel that the policy on post count is a liitle half hearted. I'm only interested in my count and rank as a means to post in the lounges with those I consider to be my friends. The fact that I've got about 2100 post, or that my rank is Commodore makes no difference to me in the 22 hours of the day that I'm not on the board. I'm just concerned that this policy will kill those areas off that I prefer to post in.

Maybe the lounges can be re-configured, so that they don't place an emphasis on rank, or rank can be a function of the time registered as a member (although this would cause problems if anybody else'e profile s wiped by a server problem).

I do like the idea of re-configuring the lounges, and only having the 4 'ranks' I mentioned (Junior Member, Member, Mod & Admin), and allowing us to give ourselves a more descriptive title. I've always thought that this board could use an 'Inspector of Taxes'

.

This is the last I'm going to say on the subject. Yet again, I apologise for my overly aggresive tone in earlier posts, and I especially apologise to LizardLaugh, susannah, Lisa and Christian for a few of the accusations I levelled at you all.

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"Spelling should be pensioned off... it terrorises human beings from birth." - Gabriel Garcia Marquez

Trek Talk.

 

[Neroon]

Nicely done, Reaperman. Regardless of whether I agree with you or not, the fact that you are willing to keep things on a civil plain is a terrific thing.

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by Reaperman:
I do like the idea of re-configuring the lounges, and only having the 4 'ranks' I mentioned (Junior Member, Member, Mod & Admin), and allowing us to give ourselves a more descriptive title. I've always thought that this board could use an 'Inspector of Taxes'

.

I like the custom rank idea as well. What do you think of the following:

IJD GAF- Rapist of Waterbuffalos
IJD GAF- TNZ Bathroom Attendant
IJD GAF- DEA's Bitch
IJD GAF- Apathetic Commie Troll
IJD GAF- Professional Moo-ist
IJD GAF- Pantalones en fuego
IJD GAF- Village Idiot
IJD GAF- Resident BBS Prostitute
IJD GAF- PASTA PASTA PASTA

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I like "Apathetic Commie Troll" the best.

I think we should all be given customized ranks, like customized license plates.

Here's mine:

Temis the Vorta: NO SOUP FOR YOU!

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"We met an alien race and got in their face! We said hey hey hey, and they said, @#%$! Go away! But we like to explore, so let's piss 'em off more!"

-First line of the (true) Federation Anthem, "Why Starfleet is Always Getting Shot At By AOTW"

[This message has been edited by Temis the Vorta (edited October 19, 2001).]

 

[susannah]

*echoes Neroon*

 

[Guest]

rank should be done by length of time since registration.
rank by number of posts only creates a potential for flooding.

theres another board im a member of, and have posted about 60 times, although ive been registered there for nearly 2 years. therefor i have a lower rank then some who have been there for only a month.

i would rather see a limited number of quality intellectual posts then sort through a mass of medicore ones.

just my opinion.

 

[The Great Meech]

Damn, there goes my sig. I'll show what I mean, and then I'll change it. Please do not give me a warning for using my current sig again. Thank you.

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"How do you feel? Better? Heh. I realize you can't understand a word I'm saying, but that doesn't matter. I know you're aware of me. You see, I was once like you. I spent months in a lab being prodded and poked by a scientist who didn't recognize I was a lifeform... he though I was a specimen. A mystery that need to be unraveled... he never talked to me. It didn't occur to him. I didn't know what I was, or what I was supposed to do. I was lost, alone. But it's not going to be that way with you. No. I'm not going to make the same mistakes that were made... with me."-Odo, "The Begotten"

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by LimeFire:
rank should be done by length of time since registration.
rank by number of posts only creates a potential for flooding.

theres another board im a member of, and have posted about 60 times, although ive been registered there for nearly 2 years. therefor i have a lower rank then some who have been there for only a month.

i would rather see a limited number of quality intellectual posts then sort through a mass of medicore ones.

just my opinion.

Unfortunatly there is also the opinion that someone who only posts occasionally should have a lower 'rank' than someone who posts a lot because they have not contributed to the board during their membership period.

At least now, it's only the Trek posts that count on a Trek board, not the 'other stuff' that is great fun and usually friendly but nothing to do with why we came here in the first place!