Changed Opinion Of A Character...

[Farscape One]

My wife posed a very interesting question tonight that I felt should be shared here.

What character has had the greatest change in your opinion of them from when you first watched them to today? Both positive and negative. (In my case, from their first airings in 1987-2005 and multiple rewatches to now. For everyone else, whatever time you started watching to today.)


I'll get the ball rolling.

Most improved opinion: Vedek Bareil. I always found him boring at first. But over the years, I've come to realize that what I perceived as being boring was simply him being a centered, zen person. I also feel his zen traits were an important step for Kira's growth... I think some of that rubbed off on her, bit by bit.

(My original thought was Pulaski, but by the time I rewatched season two a second or third time back then, my opinion of her really softened. Bareil was a more recent change, comparatively speaking.)

Most dimished opinion: Dr. Beverly Crusher. I used to be fine with her when I was younger, but after multiple rewatches and years going by, I find her more annoying. She tended to talk AT a character rather than TO a character. She was much more pushy about her ethics and values than any of the other CMOs from the shows. I wonder if she got too comfortable doing that because she had that personal connection with Picard... which would actually make her worse, if true. That's basically using personal history against someone for your own gain.



I did not bother to count any of the current shows (from DISCO onward) because not enough time has passed like the legacy shows, so it wouldn't be fair to attempt a comparison of my feelings for the characters from when I first saw them until now.

A huge thank you to my wife for coming up with this awesome topic.

 

[Shawnster]

Captain Edward Jellico. My first impression was as everyone else's - he was an insufferable jerk who was wrong because our heroes like Riker are always right. Then I entered the real world and had to go to work as an employee and I learned what the chain of command is (it's what I beat you with until you learn I'm in command).

Turns out Jellico is fine. He's simply not touchy feely nor a softy nor a push over. He was in command and, like it or not, he was in charge. He had a different way of doing things, but his way never put the ship in danger or at odds with Federation values, principles, or code of conduct.

Riker was just insubordinate and the rest of the crew followed his example.

 

[at Quark's]

Pulaski.

When I was younger, (around 15) I saw her as a grumpy old woman. When I rewatched TNG I found out she was one of the few that didn't suck up to Picard and simply told him what she thought, whether he liked it or not.

 

[Qonundrum]

Most improved opinion: Wesley Crusher.

Season 1 has him being the do-all know-all save-all to help "show" the audience he's bright. Problem is, it all feels artificial, rendered worse when all the other characters are dumbed down. Case in point: "Datalore", a story that Brent Spiner, Ron Jones, and Rob Bowman save from being a total dumpster fire with acting, incidental music, and direction to make it far more than the sum of its parts, also setting the stage for a returning character if they so choose, even if they weren't sure since he was just dumped *blap* into space with the shields up.

But season 2 onward gives Wesley a focus and direction; every episode here on feels authentic and Wesley is now a much-improved character. Season 2, being much maligned, renders a lot of Wesley episodes to be forgotten, but there is some weighty material that suits his character really well to be had.


Most diminished? Hmmm...

Dr Crusher - in seasons 1 and 3, she has empathy and emotes, but generally feels like a well-written character. Season 5 onward? She's reduced to a paperweight atop a soapbox.

If not:
Kirk, James T -- He's a culmination and reasoned balance of Spock's and McCoy's opposing attributes, with the ego to match. But 60s or not, he's always THE ONE to save EVERYTHING, leading to the diminishing of what should have been an ensemble show. It's like if "I Spy" went from being ensemble with two leads to just letting Kelly do everything. The flavor is lost. This is more regarding "the big three" that TOS became more than anything else and it's still iconic, but in a main crew of 7.. either way, it was too many and before TNG figured out how to shake things up to make the best use of all their main characters.

Worse, as the years have gone by, watching Kirk "teaching love" in n number of episodes just has me rolling on the floor laughing over how awful it's done. Again, it's 60s and all, but forget Deela and the infamous post-commercial boot-lift to more than imply they did it, not recognizing that microscratches are just as effective as the full ones that Deela's groovy fingernails would have caused upon his back, but before I digress: Shahna really got the short end of the stick in TOS - headcanon lets me think that she ended up leading the planet instead of pining for him, but given other times when Kirk granted asylum (e.g. Alexander), when the script dropped the ball then headcanon has to convolute its way in. Or Kirk didn't want to bang her on ship in ways other than how he was banging the chair's handrest every time the shields went down.

Also, there's Riker, William T -- Given how often he treats Data badly with various quips indiscriminately, when otherwise any snark he states is out of duress or stress... noting how often Riker compromised the ship, most notably so in "The Game" where, zoiks and gadzooks, it's his libido that made comprising the entire Federation a near-reality, never mind the Binars in taking over the Enterprise, if only the neon purple crawdads from "Conspiracy" had some slinky females for luring Riker instead then they'd have won... on the plus side, he sidestepped The Perfect Mate to go spend some quality personal time(tm) in Holodeck Four, complete with Dutch Angle. I sure hope regulation mandates that the person who dirties the room is the one responsible for cleaning it up afterwards. Eww. But given how many bacterial and viral cooties can survive across species, ask Harry Kim about this one because he's not one of THE LEADS, there's probably a new show idea just waiting to happen -- "Starfleet Medical"... at least VOY, imperfectly or otherwise, finally addressed the issue that was decades in the making...

 

[Frontis]

I changed my mind about Garak several times and I still don't know what to think about him.
Well, it's the "fault" of the excellent writing in DS9.

 

[tomalak301]

I guess I can do one from each series. Might be an interesting thought experiment:

Star Trek:

McCoy: Everyone likes McCoy and I get that he's always joking with Spock, but the guy is a bit of a racist. It's played for laughs but in society today, I'm not sure if it has aged well.

TNG:

Jellico and Pulaski: Most doesn't like Pulaski but I wish she had stayed past season 2. I really liked that character and how she improved as the season went on. Most talks about how she treated Data in the beginning, forgetting that in Peek Performance, she actually respected Data a lot. As for Jellico, he was a leader and knew how to get things done. He beat the Cardassians

DS9:

Nog: I hated Nog at first and thought the Farengi episodes were dumb. Nog's character development was probably one of the most underrated things about the series, and talking to Esinberg at my first Convention is something I will never forget

VOY:

Chakotay: I used to really like Chakotay, but they did him no favors. Thankfully Prodigy has taken up that mantle.

ENT:

Soval: He was a dick in the early seasons. In season 4 he became an honorable Vulcan

Discovery:

Saru: I didn't like him until I did a rewatch and rewatched Sound of Thunder. Then he became my favorite character on the show

Picard:

Raffi: Maybe it's hearing Michelle Hurd speak about the strikes at conventions, but the character has aged pretty well for only being a 3 season show.

Can't really say anything about the rest of the series as they are still going. Lower Decks because it's ending I might say Rutherford but Really that is the one show that is getting the ensamble cast so right that I love that entire group of goofballs.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

TOS: I've come to appreciate how by-the-book and thoughtful Kirk actually is in the series.

TNG: I used to think of LaForge as being easy going, but he's a lot more irritable than I remembered. He's even angry with Data when he wins Sherlock Holmes too quickly in the holodeck.

Voyager: I never liked Neelix much on my first watch, but he's a pretty decent character once Kes breaks up with him. As long as he's not around Tuvok.

Lower Decks: I haven't rewatched it, but in four seasons Captain Freeman went from being the character I liked to hate, to a captain I'd want to serve under.

 

[Gul Sengosts]

Constable I-Don't-Pick-Sides. I once used to like him because of his grumpiness and his great chemistry with Quark and Kira (as friends, not as a couple), and I didn't see much wrong with him as the sheriff of the show who gets the job done his way outside the rules, and I guess DS9 did a good job teaching me that that's normal and fine.

With heightened awareness of police brutality and abuse of power and authority, my feelings about him have changed quite a bit. He wants to lock up whoever he wants whenever he wants, and when asked if he has evidence against a person he just says "no, don't worry I'll find evidence later". He demands free rein and whenever someone tries to tell him anything about rules or what he can and can't do, he throws a tantrum and threatens to quit. It's eerily reminiscent of real world discussions we're having.

To make matters worse, he even openly admits to nostalgic feelings about the horrible Cardassian occupation, saying things like "say about the Cardassians what you will, but at least there was order". While Kira is standing right next to him. Dude wtf?


For a change of opinion in a positive direction, I'll go with Uhura. Not in-universe because of course I always liked her, but in my understanding and appreciation of her real-world importance. I knew of the stories of Martin Luther King and Whoopi Goldberg, but having watched TOS after DS9 I underestimated her role because of her being a side character who rarely got much to do.

But hearing more stories from contemporary witnesses--Black people who watched the show as children--opened my eyes. Like the story of a woman who just a few years earlier still had to sit in the back of the bus, and suddenly there was this beautiful Black woman on the frigging bridge of the Enterprise as an equal among equals and she wasn't even racialised in any way, it must have been mind-blowing. Of a man whose father didn't allow them to watch TV with the exception of Star Trek. And many more stories like these of Uhura's mere presence being a life-changing inspiring experience. Big shoutout to the Syfy Sistas podcast here. The first Black woman in space, Mae Jamison, was also a big fan of Star Trek and later became the first real-life astronaut to appear on the show.

It's easy to miss just how much representation matters if you're part of a demographic that's very far from being underrepresented, but the more you pay attention and listen the more you get an idea just how extremely important it is. Today I think Uhura is probably one of the most important characters in the history of television.

 

[BillJ]

Jean-Luc Picard. I used to love the character, now I find him an amoral blowhard.

 

[Dr Helen Noel]

Data was by far my most favourite TNG character during my first watch but now I find him incredibly irritating, one of my most disliked. He can’t be that clueless and po faced about everything while also having all the logs and journals of the colonists and however much more information stored. He feels like a failed attempt at another Spock. I’m also tired of seeing Brent Spiner in things.

 

[Sim]

Janeway. At first, I disliked VOY and especially Janeway. After the first three shows had each expanded the franchise storytelling-wise and when it came to the depth of character development, VOY felt like a step backwards. Also, DS9, which was running parallel, was just so much better.

But after all the years, my view on VOY has improved, and after seeing her on PRO, I am even beginning to kind of like Janeway.

 

[WarpTenLizard]

Worf used to bore, and sometimes annoy me. I found his #honor! very one-dimensional.

What changed this view overnight was seeing the same concept done poorly in the MCU. In so many of those movies, they shove down your throat how morally superior Steve Rogers (Captain America) is supposed to be, but with clumsy writing, he often comes off as a hypocrite.

I took a break from Marvel and went back to "Star Trek." And suddenly, when Worf immediately apologized for a wrongdoing, it stood out. Boring or not, Worf practices what he preaches. And Worf would never conceal the murder of a shipmate's parents from them.

His becoming a kind of Klingon Machete in "Picard" made me start to like him even from an entertainment perspective.

 

[ananta]

Absolutely agree on Pulaski. I disliked her as a kid but really came to appreciate as an adult. On the other hand, I found Beverly likeable as a kid, but I’m not a fan of her these days. There’s something incredibly smug and self-righteous about her.

I also quite liked Geordi watching the show as a kid, and still like him in earlier episodes, but there are a lot of times he really comes across an obnoxious dick, from his initial treatment of Barclay, his behaviour toward Scotty in “Relics” and, worst of all, the whole Leah Brahms fiasco. Either that or he’s extremely bland; but that’s the writing—he just wasn’t a hugely compelling character and had no real arcs to speak of.

But for me, Voyager’s “Tuvix” was a character assassination that forever coloured my view of Janeway. While I never outright loved her, and found her a little grating at times, I thought she was a decent series lead. That was until she literally marched a character to their forced execution because the writers had written themselves into a corner. I’ll never forget Sisko saying in “Children of Time”, “ I will not ask Kira to sacrifice her life for eight thousand people, or for eight million! No one has that right.” Janeway was dead to me for a long time after that and it wasn’t helped by the horribly flawed and inconsistent handling of her character.

 

[Victoria]

When I saw "Encounter at Fairpoint" for the first time, I liked the Fairpoint Station plot but found the "trial" tedious and Q, obnoxious and boring. That view of Q, I retained throughout TNG. I didn't find his appearances in DS9 quite so bad but still enough to make me roll my eyes. Voyage...again, a bit of an improvement. Picard 2, positively liked the character (haven't seen P3).

Q is never going to be a favourite of mine but I feel the character grew and improved over time.

 

[Alexander Corrino]

When I watched TNG for the first time I really never cared much for Troi. She just seemed to get the worst storylines (along with Crusher) and I never understood what Riker saw in her. That opinion changed over time - while I still don't care much for the whole Riker/Troi dynamic and I still think she has some of the worst storylines (and always seems to end up having to deal with the Creep Of The Week) I now see her character's importance to the well-being of the crew (and especially Jean-Luc; she sits with him in his ready room a LOT and gives him advice). AND she saves the ship on more than one occasion. I completely missed that part back in the day.

So yeah. Troi it is for me.

As for the other way around... I always liked LaForge but then I realized his creepiness towards Leah Brahms and I liked him a little less. I know the character was written that way to show that he was "unsuccessful with women", but... yeah... umm.

 

[Oddish]

An "improved" character? Bashir. DS9 saw a foundering character and they salvaged him, with friendships, new revelations, and a new adversary in Sloan.

Another improved character was Mayweather. Barely noticed at first, but when you look harder, you realize that he's the most competent person on that ship, aside from maybe T'Pol.

Some of my character opinions took a hit due to their actions in one episode: Picard's indifference in both "The Neutral Zone" and "Homeward", Geordi's dickishness is "Galaxy's Child", and Janeway's accusations and denigration of Harry Kim in "Nightingale".

 

[Brennyren]

I was never a big fan of Kirk (or Shatner, tbh) while I was watching TOS, but he really grew on me in the movies -- he aged well, managing to mature without losing his energy and charm.

Picard, otoh, faded on me as TNG progressed. Those lovely speeches could turn pompous after a time.

Mariner was an asshole in early Lower Decks, and Boimler was an outright doormat. They started growing out of those traits even in first season, but it took me a while to warm up to either after those dire first impressions.

All of the Prodigy kids matured in the course of the series, but the one who benefitted the most from that, imo, was Dal, who started out super cocky and abrasive. It was obvious even then that his attitude was a product of insecurity, but liking the kid was difficult until at least the second half of season one.

Chakotay went in both directions for me. I liked him in the early seasons of VOY, but he bored me in the later.seasons when he (and his actor) lost his fire. Then he got interesting again in PRO season 2.

 

[Nyotarules]

Mariner was an asshole in early Lower Decks, and Boimler was an outright doormat. They started growing out of those traits even in first season, but it took me a while to warm up to either after those dire first impressions.

I think the writers thought Mariner's assholeness was funny but to me, she came across as a bully, thankfully they improved the character from the episode when she is fighting her holographic self.

 

[DonIago]

TOS: Most improved: Chapel, thanks entirely to SNW. On the flip side: Nobody.

TNG: Most improved: Picard, who was stiff as a board in early TNG but did lighten up over time and made me really appreciate him. On the flip side: Data, thanks to his overuse in PIC and to some degree the films, and Geordi...his 'way with women' didn't bother me so much when I was young, but as I've aged so has it, and not well.

DS9: Most improved: Bashir and Nog, who both went from annoying to complicated and amazing. Honorary mention to everyone else, as one of the reasons DS9 is my favorite is that it's the show where I felt the people were most like people, with all of their good and bad qualities. Also, can we talk about Damar's amazing evolution? On the flip side: Dukat's arc in the later seasons isn't as effective as I wish it was. Odo...talks about the importance of justice, but he sometimes does it with the subtlety of a sledgehammer, and he had at least one moment after which I don't know that I'd ever be able to look him in the eyes again. Our Heroes were more forgiving than I think I might manage to be...but if they can forgive him, I can try to?

VOY: Most improved: Tom and Torres, both of whom became so much more over time than they were at the beginning. On the flipside: Eternal Ensign Kim. Not because of his lack of promotion, but because even in the final season he was the same dope Quark almost conned in the pilot episode. If it's any consolation, I blame the writers more than the character himself.

ENT: Most improved: Malcom, I guess? Phlox was always fun? On the flip side: Trip, who I'm not sure ever really learned anything from "Cogenitor", and I didn't care for his relationship with T'Pol, which it felt like he forced, and his whole shtick, which I guess was supposed to be charming, just irritated me more over time. And then there's Travis, who at least starts off with a couple of storylines but largely disappears by the end.

I've not seen all of LDS, DISCO, or PROD so am not comfortable weighing in on those.

 

[ananta]

I think the writers thought Mariner assholeness was funny but to me, she came across as a bully, thankfully they improved the character from the episode when she is fighting her holographic self.

Hands in the air, to me, Mariner was the Jar Jar Binks of the Trek franchise. Certainly, they made her less malignant soon after the show started but I still found her insufferably annoying and her centrality to that series was just too much for me.