If you ever listen to The Oldies, at all, there's one about Jenny ... how her number might be obtained and what sort of a reception one might get, when she answered the phone.
Chakotay
- Thread starter JeffinOakland
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During the conception of the show and characters, the creators got suckered by Jamake Highwater, who presented himself as an authority on Native Americans, and had written several books on the subject. They didn't realize that Highwater's credentials were suspect as early as 1984.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamake_Highwater
The story goes like this...
Jeri Taylor asked Beltran for some background on his own indigenous traditions. He said he was Mexican and didn't know what his tribal affiliation was, but suggested she research the Mayans, since they had an ancient tradition in astronomy.
She went out to a website called mayanet. This much was obvious because she lifted some myths almost word-for-word in her Voyager novels.
But they didn't want to offend Native Americans by calling him Mayan, so they set up the moronic Rubber Tree People with their random foreheads. Thing is, if they'd bothered asking, they would have found out that it would not have been offensive at all to use any established tribe or nation. Our identities as members of our tribes and clans are central to our cultures. The nonsensical stereotype they created was simply offensive.
And if they'd bothered to talk to their gardeners and nannies, they would have discovered that a lot of them are Mayans. White people tend to think we're all on reservations, when the majority of Native Americans live in cities now.
Jeri Taylor asked Beltran for some background on his own indigenous traditions. He said he was Mexican and didn't know what his tribal affiliation was, but suggested she research the Mayans, since they had an ancient tradition in astronomy.
She went out to a website called mayanet. This much was obvious because she lifted some myths almost word-for-word in her Voyager novels.
But they didn't want to offend Native Americans by calling him Mayan, so they set up the moronic Rubber Tree People with their random foreheads. Thing is, if they'd bothered asking, they would have found out that it would not have been offensive at all to use any established tribe or nation. Our identities as members of our tribes and clans are central to our cultures. The nonsensical stereotype they created was simply offensive.
And if they'd bothered to talk to their gardeners and nannies, they would have discovered that a lot of them are Mayans. White people tend to think we're all on reservations, when the majority of Native Americans live in cities now.
They wanted to pursue a more traditional agrarian lifestyle.
Makes sense to me. I'm in the process of preparing to move back to the country myself.
*snerk*
If they had spoken with enough people in their research they would have discovered there is no "generic" or monolithic Native American experience or background.
*snerk*
If they had spoken with enough people in their research they would have discovered there is no "generic" or monolithic Native American experience or background.
So, in other words, Beltran didn't know anything about his own heritage and was so indifferent, he encouraged other people to research rather than assign himself a little homework.
Hence, we see, once again, the importance of literacy. There are books about Native Americans. Lots of them. God forbid, the producers could have read a few. Then picked a tribe that seemed "interesting" and started developing the character.
Heritage? 500, 600 years ago, half his ancestry was in Spain.
He was born in California to first generation Mexican parents.
Embracing his Mexican heritage would make Robert a spiritual person respectful of where he came from.
He was born in California to first generation Mexican parents.
Embracing his Mexican heritage would make Robert a spiritual person respectful of where he came from.
Which means he's part Caucasian and part Indian.
It's not unusual Mexican-Americans don't know their tribal heritage. They weren't shoved onto reservations like we were. The reservation system in the US did have the benefit of preserving tribal connections.
They wanted to pursue a more traditional agrarian lifestyle.
Makes sense to me. I'm in the process of preparing to move back to the country myself.
I did that myself two years ago!
And I can agree on your comment about them wanting to pursue a more traditional agrarian lifestyle. In that case, a move to a new planet where that was possible seems like a good idea.
As for "Tattoo", one day I will probably rewrite the entire episode, totally omitting the "Rubber tree people" rubbish.
I would create something like Chakotay crashing with his shuttle on a planet similar to the rain forests of his ancestors. There he would be stranded, fighting to survive against dangerous predators and the nature itself. During that, he would have flashbacks to his own childhood, remembering the expedition to the rain forests with his father and the discussions with his father about leaving the tribe to go to Starfleet Academy. No searching for some "Rubber Tree people" but a reliable background story. He would use his experiences from his childhood and his father's teaching to survive until Voyager would find him.
However, I would keep the subplot about The Doctor's simulated flu. That subplot saved the episode for me!
I don't think it would be so difficult. I mean, they could have Chakotay as a Mayan. He could have some knowledge about his past, his spiritual beliefs and so but they don't have to dig too deep in it if it becomes too difficult.
Sometimes they do stretch things too far, like making Picard's family wine producers, just like every Frenchman is into the wine producing business. We had Chekov, who actually was a parody of a Soviet Russian from the 1960's (however, they did make him more realistic in the movies later on) and such. They tried to make O'Brien an Irish stereotype too. Fortunately, Colm Meaney talked them out of it.
Reminds me of this bit from M*A*S*H:
Hawkeye: Radar, I was under the impression that we woke about 3 in the morning.
Radar: No, it was a quarter to 4.
Trapper: Did we say why?
Radar: Yeah. You wanted to sacrifice a virgin.
Hawkeye: Did we?
Radar: I don't know. I fell back asleep.
They wanted to pursue a more traditional agrarian lifestyle.
Makes sense to me. I'm in the process of preparing to move back to the country myself.
I did that myself two years ago!
And I can agree on your comment about them wanting to pursue a more traditional agrarian lifestyle. In that case, a move to a new planet where that was possible seems like a good idea.
As for "Tattoo", one day I will probably rewrite the entire episode, totally omitting the "Rubber tree people" rubbish.
I would create something like Chakotay crashing with his shuttle on a planet similar to the rain forests of his ancestors. There he would be stranded, fighting to survive against dangerous predators and the nature itself. During that, he would have flashbacks to his own childhood, remembering the expedition to the rain forests with his father and the discussions with his father about leaving the tribe to go to Starfleet Academy. No searching for some "Rubber Tree people" but a reliable background story. He would use his experiences from his childhood and his father's teaching to survive until Voyager would find him.
However, I would keep the subplot about The Doctor's simulated flu. That subplot saved the episode for me!
I'm moving to the same planet. Agrarian and the like. Stupid pumpkins will crossbreed with cucumbers, just to warn you.
LOL! Yeah, and zucchini will cross with loofa--which gives you something that's neither edible nor useful as a scrubbie...
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