Chakotay and Seven

[Guy Gardener]

I'm wondering if the Doctors Wife ever got recycled into anyone elses Holoprogram (possibly the Hirogen would would have been using her as an NPC since she was quite a work of art compared tot he rest of the wallpaper.)or that as an individual with some degree of autonomy escaped as herself intact to explore the strange games of the Voyager Crew on all the holodecks?

Because if she was dating, then that would have made the Doctor a super putz.

 

[Mary Ann]

There's also the small problem of Chakotay spending three years wanting to shove Seven out an airlock.

Not at all like Trip and T'Pol eh?

True, but at least there was a chemistry build-up between those two. Between Chakotay and Seven...nothing. I see no backing for this relationship for the same reasons stated earlier by others.

 

[Gaith]

Even Neelix would have been preferable.

Kinky!

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

Personally, I think it would have been best to leave Seven single at the end of the series. Not everyone has to pair off, and, as we've discussed, one of the disturbing things about C/7 was that she was an emotional child, or at least an emotional adolescent. She probably wasn't ready to pursue a romantic/sexual relationship with anyone, much less someone like Chakotay.

 

[propita]

I wouldn’t mind “someone like Chakotay.”

I got as close as I could. Not giving him up, either.

 

[jmc247]

I cannot describe Seven and Chakotay's retarded, awkward, poorly concieved, intelligence-insulting, not-believable-in-the-slightest, character-destroying, credibility-ruining relationship without using deeply unpleasent terms involving coat hangers and back alleys, so I'll just say that it was the single worst story in the history of Star Trek.

What were they thinking?

I watched every single episode of TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager and most of Enterprise and for me it was also the worst story Star Trek has ever produced bar none. Not just because it was completely idiotic... I have seen other Trek storylines that were also unbelievably idiotic. Why C/7 is number one for me is it retroactively damaged three of the major relationships on the show J/C, J/7, and D/7 to such an extent even a long time Voyager fan like myself couldn't enjoy their interaction watching reruns and it really damaged my opinion of both Chakotay and Seven as characters.

And, when I say J/C, J/7, or D/7 I am not just talking about their potental for romantic relationships (I am talking mainly about their complex and long lasting friendships). Worf and Troi in contrast may have done a bit of damage of her relationship with Riker (before the films came out), but it was dealt with in such a way that it very much didn't totally and retroactive ruin her past relationship and interactions with him. I could watch past episodes of them and still feel that she did respect his feelings and it didn't hurt my opinion of her or their relationship in retrospect after the TV series ended. I can't say any of that was the case for the major friendships/relationships impacted by C/7.

For heaven's sakes, Doc tells the woman he loves her to her face in the episode prior to the finale. And she didn't even turn him down or say a word. Le sigh.

That comes back to my core problem of it retroactively ruining my watching of the main relationships on the show that were damaged by C/7. There were ways C/7 could have been done to minimize the damage to Seven's long standing relationship with the Doctor and Janway's long standing relationships with Seven and Chakotay. Most of those ways would have involved them starting to develop the relationship in at the latest early to mid season 6 and having Seven deal with her relationship issues with the Doctor and likewise with Chakotay with Janeway and Janeway and Seven before having C/7 have sex.

Instead the writers just threw C/7 together at the very end totally ignoring what this might mean for J/C, J/7, D/7 and the damage it would do to the relationships and I am not just talking about romantic relationships I am talking about their close and complex friendships that were so core to the series for years.

There is a reason the writers of the Voyager novels dropped C/7 like a seven hundred degree fahrenheit rock.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

I wouldn’t mind “someone like Chakotay.”

I got as close as I could. Not giving him up, either.

LOL I'm sure he'd been fine for you. I'm just saying he was ill-suited to Seven for a myriad of reasons.

 

[propita]

I wouldn’t mind “someone like Chakotay.”

I got as close as I could. Not giving him up, either.

LOL I'm sure he'd been fine for you. I'm just saying he was ill-suited to Seven for a myriad of reasons.

Agreed.

So much potential for a show that was derailed by writers, producers, and the studio. I don’t blame any of the actors--they did as they were directed.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

Really, I don't understand why anyone working on the show thought Seven and Chakotay should go together. They had nothing in common. Chakotay was spiritual. Seven was logical. Chakotay was emotionally mature. Seven was emotionally stunted. Chakotay was very in touch with nature. Seven was ... not. Really, the only way in which I can see them being attracted to each other is on a physical level. Chakotay's handsome, and Seven's a statuesque, buxom blonde that most men would find attractive as a matter of course. But as far as personalities go, it's like they were speaking different languages.

I suppose you could argue for a whole "opposites attract" kind of dynamic, since they are so different, but even then, Seven's emotional and social immaturity/underdevelopment makes the whole thing kind of creepy. And for two good-looking people, they had surprisingly little chemistry - if any.

Add to all this this final nail in the relationship coffin: they were poorly written and thrown together at the last minute to boot! I mean, as much as I hated Worf/Troi on TNG, at least there was some sort of build-up to that relationship, not to mention a well-established friendship and respect between the two characters. Most of the time, Chakotay seemed like he could barely tolerate Seven and didn't trust her as far as he could throw her. Heck, I think Janeway and Seven would have made a more believable couple than putting her with Chakotay!

 

[froot]

Heck, I think Janeway and Seven would have made a more believable couple than putting her with Chakotay!

There is a massive subset of the VOY fandom that would agree with you on this point.

 

[Guy Gardener]

"Why did you kiss me? I think of you as my mother."

"That's right, give Mommy some sugar."

Nope.

Just as creepy.

 

[froot]

"Why did you kiss me? I think of you as my mother."

"That's right, give Mommy some sugar."

Nope.

Just as creepy.

I would tend to agree, but it's quite popular all the same, and I can see where it's coming from (several episodes and scenes do come to mind.) I daresay it's about as popular as J/C, actually.

But, yeah, the age difference there is about the same as C/7, not to mention the same problems with emotional maturity.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Well Homosexuality is (almost, gods bless you DS9.) banned in Star Trek.

That pisses me off.

Suggesting that Homosexuality does exist in Star Trek, that Star trek could be positively dripping in homosexuality, saturated in homosexuality, that it's always been there every where is the sort of inyourfacedness reserved for confronting "isms" and "opbias" that wrongly make decent normal people feel less than normal.

 

[GalaxyX]

I would have preferred J/7 to the Doctor and 7.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

"Why did you kiss me? I think of you as my mother."

"That's right, give Mommy some sugar."

Nope.

Just as creepy.

I would tend to agree, but it's quite popular all the same, and I can see where it's coming from (several episodes and scenes do come to mind.) I daresay it's about as popular as J/C, actually.

But, yeah, the age difference there is about the same as C/7, not to mention the same problems with emotional maturity.

I agree. Just as I find C/7 creepy because of the "Woody Allen" reminders, J/7 is even more "oh vey!" I can appreciate a lot of J/7 vids if I put my mind on hold, but I find it easier to see J/C, requited or not, than J/7. (oops, picked wrong ship the first time around. Mea culpa)

As for the "subtext" crowd around J/7... we've talked to death Janeway's skill at seducing her crew to do what she wants them to do... as a "crew" rather than as potential lovers.

When a particlarly steamy J/7 scene is used in a vid (the fireplace scene in The Omega Directive for example) I just smile and recall the actual words put to the scene. Loving, endearing, but not sexual at all.

JANEWAY: I wondered who was running my program. Master da Vinci doesn't like visitors after midnight.
SEVEN: He protested. I deactivated him.
JANEWAY: What are you doing here, Seven?
SEVEN: This simulation contains many religious components. I was studying them to help me understand what I saw in Cargo Bay two.
JANEWAY: The data isn't clear why Omega stabilized in those last few seconds. The chances are it was simply a chaotic anomaly, nothing more.
SEVEN: For three point two seconds I saw perfection. When Omega stabilized, I felt a curious sensation. As I was watching it, it seemed to be watching me. The Borg have assimilated many species with mythologies to explain such moments of clarity. I've always dismissed them as trivial. Perhaps I was wrong.
JANEWAY: If I didn't know you better, I'd say you just had your first spiritual experience.


And THAT is why I call her Mama Janeway.

 

[Lord Manitou]

Seven began her stay on Voyager asking to copulate. This was interpretation of the Borg way- which she was bonded to.
Throughout the series she didn't show anyother way and she was purposely inhibited when it came to romance.
Chakotay suddenly took notice of her and cortical node couldn't block her normal, true feelings.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Dude. She as good as raped Kim. Her approach was not healthy and bordered on canabalism... Kim actually wanted to have mature courtship with her until he noticed that he was being treated like meat. Sure he was treating her like a princess but he's a child too.

Less sexually mature than Harry Kim.

Now that is telling.

 

[Maggie]

hahahah. yes, laforge. i agree.

 

[GalaxyX]

For some reason the C/7 pairing doesn't really bother me at all. I was petrified that they were going to do D/7 at the end. I am soooo glad they didn't go this route. J/C would have been the ideal, but I'd take almost anything to D/7.

 

[Guy Gardener]

SHE HAD A BOYFRIEND!

His name was Axum.

It's a piss in continuities eye to bench that love affair without cause.