You know they'll just end in the Mirror universe...Blow them all out an airlock!
CBS Trek
- Thread starter Admiral Jean-Luc Picard
- Start date
His 40 foot tall clone from TAS is.
I was really expecting some kind of Spock crossover in Picard's flashbacks (even if it's just a from the back shot of him walking to his fancy ship), especially since he promised the Romulans he'd save their planet.
I actually would love to see how they do a Horta these days.
Oooo, good idea.
TOS A+
TNG A+
DS9 A+
ST B-
LD C+
TAS C
VOY C
ENT D+
DIS D
PIC D-
Well, potentially. A lot can happen in 130+ years.
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We all know El-Aurians are Time Lords.Don’t forget Guinan!
Maybe the El-Aurians are androids!
Ok, you have shamed me. I would actually be happy to see a Horta.
Maybe a shout out on a billboard like Quark and Cassidy got, next time they go to Mos Eisl- I mean some backwater planet . . . Mama Horta's House of Lasagna, maybe. (Always thought she looked like lasagna scraps.)
Maybe a shout out on a billboard like Quark and Cassidy got, next time they go to Mos Eisl- I mean some backwater planet . . . Mama Horta's House of Lasagna, maybe. (Always thought she looked like lasagna scraps.)
I'll add LD C- to mine, based on what little I've seen so far.
I don't get why some people are so negative on Dis and Pic. They have some story consistency problems, but they bring a lot of likable characters and tell good overarching stories that challenge Starfleet ideals in a way they weren't challenged in other shows. Is it just not liking that we see a less utopian side of Starfleet?
They're both not in season 3 yet, no new Star Trek series is widely liked before season 3 or 4.
I like DSC just fine.
Picard though....
I really enjoyed it until the last two episodes. The Android Planet. Another Soong. Romulans come to create the very problem they were supposedly terrified of. The Flying Robot Spaghetti Monster is real!?!?! Let's jam Data in here again. Riker just joins back up and gets command of a ship. Whatserface murders Maddox with no consequence...
The final insult (IMHO) was how easily Picard adjusted to being a robot. They just had a casual 2 minute discussion at the coffee table, handwaved the lifespan and strength issue, and went on their merry. That seemed so out of character to me, especially after his time in the Borg. I don't know...to each his/her own.
The final insult (IMHO) was how easily Picard adjusted to being a robot. They just had a casual 2 minute discussion at the coffee table, handwaved the lifespan and strength issue, and went on their merry. That seemed so out of character to me, especially after his time in the Borg. I don't know...to each his/her own.
I agree Picard has more problems than Discovery. Or at least, Disco’s big ones mostly happened in the first season and got wrapped up conclusively.
That is certainly a big part of it for me (especially in Picard), but I also didn't find season 2 of Discovery (or season 1 Picard in some ways) a good overarching story, but a garbled mess. Plus I got tired of head-cononning reasons for the inconsistencies of the supposed prequel (thankfully not an issue come season 3), and I hated the way they offed certain TNG characters in Picard. I didn't fail them, so clearly liked some of the characters and acting, but not enough.
I agree about two particular TNG characters. But thought the emotional center of the story is strong.
And, I made similar criticisms of DS9 when it was on. It’s not following Gene’s vision, they screwed up Kurn and Tom Riker! But I came around since then, because Behr’s vision makes Gene’s vision better.
Gene’s vision says that humanity can get better. But to do this, humanity must become less human. It must stop having real emotions, real flaws, any trace of selfishness. And the rest of the universe must put aside their negative natures too for it to work without getting us all killed.
Behr responded, it can indeed get better, end war, end poverty. But it can’t end human failings, and does not indeed have to in order to do so. It shows us a more realistic, thornier path to ending war and poverty, that is idealistic when possible, but accepts life is less simple and harder on the frontier and willing to be pragmatic when necessary.
Kurtzmantrek is all about Behr’s vision, not Gene’s. It extends the moral logic of DS9 to new frontiers. Burnham strives for the ideal while living in the reality of the situation. Picard realizes that his stubborn adherence to ideal hurt the people he’s trying to help and adapts to a world where people with a more difficult life than him have a harder time being perfect. Both find ways to avoid mass slaughter by embracing the imperfect.
Neither of them negate Gene’s vision. Like DS9, they make it accessible to real human beings, and stop pretending the world isn’t hard.
And, I made similar criticisms of DS9 when it was on. It’s not following Gene’s vision, they screwed up Kurn and Tom Riker! But I came around since then, because Behr’s vision makes Gene’s vision better.
Gene’s vision says that humanity can get better. But to do this, humanity must become less human. It must stop having real emotions, real flaws, any trace of selfishness. And the rest of the universe must put aside their negative natures too for it to work without getting us all killed.
Behr responded, it can indeed get better, end war, end poverty. But it can’t end human failings, and does not indeed have to in order to do so. It shows us a more realistic, thornier path to ending war and poverty, that is idealistic when possible, but accepts life is less simple and harder on the frontier and willing to be pragmatic when necessary.
Kurtzmantrek is all about Behr’s vision, not Gene’s. It extends the moral logic of DS9 to new frontiers. Burnham strives for the ideal while living in the reality of the situation. Picard realizes that his stubborn adherence to ideal hurt the people he’s trying to help and adapts to a world where people with a more difficult life than him have a harder time being perfect. Both find ways to avoid mass slaughter by embracing the imperfect.
Neither of them negate Gene’s vision. Like DS9, they make it accessible to real human beings, and stop pretending the world isn’t hard.
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Why do we still give a shit about the Vision of a man who's been dead nearly thirty years?
Though what’s the point of Star Trek if it moves so far away from the original that it is unrecognizable?
"Gene's Vision" didn't even exist until twenty years after TOS, so does that even count as part of "the original?"
It may not have been called “Gene’s Vision”, but he clearly had an idea of the kind of world he wanted to present, even in the 1960’s.
Yes, but that was just humanity is a united species and lives a better life than that today. Which all the subsequent Treks followed and even the current ones follow, with the possible exception of Disco season 3, though we don't know enough about that yet to comment.
Just because something doesn't follow the utopia paradise perfection stuff that TNG established that is associated as "Gene's Vision" doesn't make it the Anti-Trek.
Just because something doesn't follow the utopia paradise perfection stuff that TNG established that is associated as "Gene's Vision" doesn't make it the Anti-Trek.
Gene's vision was making money and informing young actresses that they wouldn't get work if they didn't have sex with him.
There's no real sign of a united Humanity.
Yeah, from their back stories it sound like the three "Mudds women" really had it good.
The only optimistic future in TOS was that Humanity simply would survive until the 23rd century. Where TOS is better than any of the follow on Trek series is that it's Humans are just regular people. Something later Treks lost.
Given the large amount of warfare in the 24th century, dead parents, entire planets being stripped of life, no not anywhere close to "utopia paradise."
I’d go...
Lower Decks
Picard
Short Treks
Discovery
I don’t hate Discovery, it just doesn’t totally click for me. Lower Decks does though. And I’ve found the Short Treks have been more miss than hit.
I like all the shows and especially the new ones. This is a great time to be a fan. Almost like the 90s all over again.
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