Discussion in 'Fan Productions' started by jespah, May 10, 2018.
Just waiting on the next crowdfunding
Wait, so I does that mean the Axanar website has actually been shut down?
AP probably just didn't pay the rent. Waiting for donors to pick up the tab.
Yep... someone didn’t pay the bill.
He should try paying in patches.
Odd that you're having troubles with the website.
It comes through fine on my system.
Full moving video and all.
Has been for weeks now.
It works now. Someone paid the hosting bill.
What is it with you guys and your snide remarks about this site and these guys work?
I really don't get it.
This is an amazing, imagination drama story based on a chapter out of the ST history that no one has ever gone down.
It's amazing that they've created a set, costumes and even employed the efforts of notable people in this venture and yet you drudge up derogatory insult after derogatory insult about the work.
Are you doing something better?
Do you really want to see them fail?
Star Trek isn't about TOS or TNG or ABC or DMV.
It's a fictional story people, not an historical recreation. None of it is real and therefore, fighting over "canon" is a really juvenile effort. Like two 13 year olds fighting over Ford or Chevy (I'm a Dodge fan myself).
Are they using crowd sourcing to fund it?
Of course they are. Where else can they find $500,000 to build this setup much less the millions Paramount shovels into the slop they fund??
There are those of us that are just bored to death with Paramounts rehash after rehash of the same old story in a different uniform and we're willing to help where we can at our own personal expense.
Are we aware that our money may never produce a result?
I would guess that at least most of us are. The funding source provides plenty of warning on that. But on the up side, they produce new info snipets from time to time with new progress reports that keep us excited!
Elon Musk has been dragging Tesla back up from it's ritual nose dives for years based on his theatrics and govt connections alone and still people dump money into that failed (not failing) company.
Are they drawing personal pay from it?
Of course they are. They would be stupid not to and the set would never get built if they had to divide their Axanar work with their income work time.
Is it legal?
Apparently. Else wise Paramount wouldn't be bargaining with them.
Is it moral?
Again, apparently. Else wise they wouldn't be here today after all this time and promotion.
So what's your issue?
I would think you'd be supporting them, especially here on this particular thread "Star Trek Fandom, Fan Productions"???
Read the thread.
CBS owns Star Trek not Paramount. Paramount simply owns the licence to make movies. Nor am I aware of any "bargaining" happening. The case was settled in CBS's favor.
It's run by a skeevy con man who's fleecing people
They took in over a million dollars and have nothing to show for it and yet keep asking for more and more.
They took in over a million dollars to fund a FOR profit studio on the back of someone else's IP.
They should be ashamed of themselves.
Unless you've seen the movie, you have no idea if it is amazing. It's all been talk. More than a million dollars and all they have given is talk.
Lots of other fans have created sets and costumes AND provided films. For a lot less than a million of fan provided dollars.
Many people have. By actually making something.
Nope. Actually, it would be great if he actually made the movie. But, no one believes he will. He will keep asking for more money.
Who is fighting over canon in this thread?
They had over a million dollars. They didn't make anything with it other than build a studio and offices. If they had rented a studio space, and in LA, there are lots of places, they could've made the movie. But, the squandered it on outfitting a studio to make a for profit business.
Some might call that theft.
Well... How do you think that's working out so far? Has he made a movie yet? After a million dollars and how many years?
It's not to get you excited. It's to keep paying.
Tesla is also a for profit business. Musk also OWNS Tesla. It's his company. With a board. People who look over how money is being spent.
Not really a fan film then, is it?
Nope. It isn't legal. Paramount negotiated this settlement because they chose to, probably for PR reasons. Paramount is the owner of the IP, they can decide to pull the rug out from all fan films if they choose to.
Moral is a personal thing. It's not objective. I do think it's immoral to ask for over a million dollars and not deliver a final film. I do think it's immoral to ask for a million dollars on the back of someone else's IP in order to fund your own business.
Is making a fan film immoral? Meh. I do think if you have the time and money and ambition to get into making movies you would be better served making your own thing.
That Peters has been pulling a bait and switch for years. Taking money from eager fans in order to fund his own ambitions rather than delivering a movie. And he continues to double down.
And that people fail to see what a terrible bet they made with him, and continue to give him money.
Why would anyone support him? He's taken in over a million dollars and has provided.... what? Just because he's making a fanfilm doesn't mean he should be cheered on.
This isn't a hill you should die on.
Actually, since Prelude, they'd done nearly nothing, and most of the pros involved have left. Why? Because a lot of them were treated like crap.
And as for "imaginative", the truth is, a lot of the storyline is ripped from an old FASA game.
This isn't about me. Or you. It's about AP and the Axanar debacle.
I've got better things to do.
You're talking to the wrong crowd here. Most if not all of the people on this topic (and its predecessor) aren't canonistas.
Which is against the Guidelines. https://www.startrek.com/fan-films and it's how and why a lot of fan films ended up in an arms race to see who could raise the most $$ and get the biggest names. They stopped being labors of love made in basements and turned into what their makers thought would be their sizzle reels for getting a shortcut into Hollywood.
Hey, knock yourself out.
FYI crowdfunding is also evidently against their settlement with CBS and Paramount. Still so happy about handing them your cash?
Musk and Tesla are immaterial. If you'd like to throw good money after bad hey, have at it. I ain't married to ya.
As for the updates, they are little but smoke and mirrors. It's been years. No lie. Years. Other fan films have been made, for far less $$, during the interim. It's not Ben Hur. It's a fan film. And if you want to claim the lawsuit delayed things, fine, have at it. It's been over a year (is it two by now?) since the settlement. Plenty of time to make the damned thing already.
Another thing that's against the Guidelines. But even if it wasn't, fan films have never been meant to be someone's job. They are a hobby. I don't pay for my neighbor's rug hooking supplies so they can make rugs full-time rather than wait tables. Same thing here.
I work for a living. I presume you do as well. And if either of us does nothing, guess what happens? We lose our jobs. So why, exactly, are you so excited to throw cash at someone who's not producing anything?
Over 90% of all lawsuits and criminal matters are settled/pleaded down. That doesn't mean liability is conceded; it means the parties are being leaned on by the court system. Don't read anything about legality into settlement talks.
Oh, and BTW, you're getting your terminology confused. This is a civil matter, not a criminal one. The question is of liability; just saying "is it legal?" tends to imply a question of criminality. The question really should be, "is it permitted under copyright law?" and the answer to that is: No.
That makes no sense whatsoever. You've obviously never had a termite infestation. They hang around for a long time, too. It doesn't mean they have the right to chomp on your house.
Why are they still around? Star Trek (CBS for TV, Paramount for movies, FYI) was damned generous in ending the suit. They could've taken the shirt off AP's back. They didn't. They were damned nice about things (nicer than a lot of companies would have been -- have you seen what Disney does to copyright infringers?).
Personally, I don't like seeing people ripped off. And I also don't enjoy seeing people excoriated for asking questions -- which has happened, and more than once, I might add.
PS Lest you think I don't know my legal ass from my elbow, I am Widener Law School, class of '86 and yes, I practiced law (I am retired now). There have been other lawyers, and paralegals, on this and the preceding thread, and they all agree with me.
I'm impressed here.
You guys throw this stuff around like you actually know it took place and aren't in fact, imagining it all.
I would be truly grateful if you could provide your irrefutable source for this info. It would definitely help in making future investments.
You have no source???
Then where are you getting this info from?
Oh. You're making it up as you go along. Based on no data, no paper, no facts, just your opinions.
Good thing we're not funding you. We'd really be sorry huh.
You want to see a waste of donated monies, go look at "Legion M".
Now there's a couple con men who have generated bags of money based on absolutely nothing.
What stuff? The lawsuit is a matter of public record. The fact that nothing has been produced is as well.
Obviously you no idea what you are talking about. Since most of us here are VERY familiar with the facts over the years of this debacle perhaps it's you who should do some research into this scam artist and quit defending him; it makes you look like an idiot.
Most of us here have been following this since BEFORE lawsuit. A lot of the people here are former donors and supporters. If you are seriously asking for sources I am sure we could provide you with a metric shit ton, but from your previous posts I doubt you would take the time to read them. Just keep sending them your cash.
Have you been paying any attention to anything that has been going on this whole time?
If you look around a bit you can find a ton of evidence of just how much a con man and scam artist Alec Peters really is.
axamonitor.com would be a great place to start, all of the information is well cited.
Well, besides other publications, axamonitor.com would be a great place to start.
OOOOOh. I see. You don't actually care.
Publicly available records. Interviews. All sorts of places. Where are you getting your information from?
It's pretty factual that Peters raised a million dollars. He told us.
It's pretty factual that Peters used the money to renovate a warehouse into a studio. He told us.
It's pretty factual that Peters didn't make a movie there. He told us.
It's pretty factual that Peter was sued. He told us. Paramount told us. There are publicly available records.
It's pretty factual that there isn't a movie.... because there isn't a movie.
What on Earth are you talking about?
I don't know you. You don't know me. But, you're coming into this party awfully late. You have a strong feeling about this project, great. But, truly, the facts are not on your side. In fact, you haven't offered facts, but, opinion. Seriously, though, I don't know why you would want to die on Axanar's hill.
No you wouldn't, because your brief posting-trail here and posturing demonstrates you're not interested in dialog, merely gainsaying. You want the history? There's a 1703 page thread all about the lawsuit, and this thread is just the sequel. The facts are all spilled out in those over a period of several years, including a review of the actual (cringeworthy, terrible, laughable) unfinished script for the abandoned feature.
But quick precis, Alec Peters...
could not control himself and got himself banned from this board three times (coming back under different names before being swiftly IDed and tossed out the airlock again)
ran his Propworks company into the ground and never paid off the debt he owed MGM
is a bully who
threatens anyone who criticizes him for anything
files frivolous lawsuits against people to try to shut them up
managed to drive off or "fired" virtually the entire crew that made Prelude to Axanar happen
raised in excess of 1.4 million dollars in crowdfunding and donations and
never even managed to send most backers their "perk" patches
never got a locked shooting script
banned and trolled any backer who dared challenge him on any point
ran through the bulk of the money by...
ignored the advice of his now-former colleagues who advised him not to rent an improperly equipped warehouse and try to bring it up to code for use as a soundstage
poked the bear of CBS/Paramount by
insisting Axanar wasn't a fanfilm but that it was an independent professional Star Trek production
selling and proposing merchandise (models, books, etc.)
trying to convince at least one Trek novelist to violate the terms of his publishing agreement and write Axanar fiction
And then the lawsuit
After which the shenanigans continued.
And some of us [points to self smugly] predicted that Peter was going to bring the wrath of CBS down on Axanar and sure enough, he did.
Separate names with a comma.