Cardassia after the war.

[Bluesteel]

Well the books aside, I doubt the immediate future of Cardassia would be too rosey. Firstly, there is the huge loss of life from the Dominion exacting revenge.

If you think of the Union has simply a one Species empire. Where most of the planets are full of Cardassians or majority Cardassian. Then losing 1 billion on a single planet won't be much of a disaster. Also the damage was done on C.Prime and presumably Chinktoka.

Kind of like the USSR after WW2. They suffered more then anybody else did during the war and vast territory were devastated by the majority of Russian land/industry escaped intact and were able to capitalize on the advances they made during the war.

Don't these Relaunch books follow each other and exist in the same Universe? So if you have one book with a ludicrous plot

Spoiler: The books

like the assination of a Federation President by Starfleet Officers.

Wasn't this the plot of "The Undiscovered Country" too?

I haven't seen the film for years but I swear it was a plot to Kill the Klingon Chancellor by a group of rouge Starfleet and power hungry Klingons.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

Don't these Relaunch books follow each other and exist in the same Universe? So if you have one book with a ludicrous plot

Spoiler: The books

like the assination of a Federation President by Starfleet Officers.

Wasn't this the plot of "The Undiscovered Country" too?

I haven't seen the film for years but I swear it was a plot to Kill the Klingon Chancellor by a group of rouge Starfleet and power hungry Klingons.

And when this hadn't the expected outcome they tried to assassinate the Federations president. The trigger was even pulled by a Starfleet officer (Colonel West), masquerading as a Klingon (at least in the movie's special edition).

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

I don't think Cardassia would ever find the Federation a comfortable fit. The ideologies are too disparate. Just because they have suffered because of overweening and having a militaristic dictatorship does not mean that afterwards, every Cardassian would suddenly say, "Oh, how wrong we were. Bestow us with your enlightened ways, oh great and wonderful Federation!"

Well, not every Cardassian... and especially not in the beginning. As I said, the situation is roughly comparable to post-occupation Bajor.

When DS9 began, even Kira was opposed to a Federation membership. Many Bajorans were such strong opponents that they even tried to stage a coup against the government (the Circle trilogy in early Season 2). Vedek/Kai Winn was also critical of the proposed Federation membership.

Perhaps the provisional government originally applied for Federation membership out of sheer necessity. It hadn't much to do with idealism or because they liked the Federation very much. It had something to do with people starving on the streets. However, over the time they came to trust the Federation. It was gradual process which set in when Bajorans started to have first hand experience with the Federation.

Some would say that this was also because of Sisko's status as the Emissary. However, Bajorans only started to trust Sisko after some time had passed as well. Sisko's status as the Emissary didn't prevent the aforementioned coup. Vedek Winn's open criticism to Federation membership in "In the Hand of the Prophets" was very popular even among Bajorans living aboard DS9, despite the fact that Sisko was the Emissary. The Bajorans started to trust the Federation when they started to trust the Emissary and they started to trust the Emissary when they started to trust "aliens".

And at the end of the day, Federation membership is something that could protect Cardassia against the Klingons and the Romulans. Just like Federation membership (or at least applying for it) was supposed to protect Bajor against the Cardassians.

 

[mirandafave]

Well the books aside, I doubt the immediate future of Cardassia would be too rosey. Firstly, there is the huge loss of life from the Dominion exacting revenge.

If you think of the Union has simply a one Species empire. Where most of the planets are full of Cardassians or majority Cardassian. Then losing 1 billion on a single planet won't be much of a disaster. Also the damage was done on C.Prime and presumably Chinktoka.

Kind of like the USSR after WW2. They suffered more then anybody else did during the war and vast territory were devastated by the majority of Russian land/industry escaped intact and were able to capitalize on the advances they made during the war.

Yes but the USSR was at least on the side of the victors. Cardassia is not. On top of being a loser it is also a victim then with the Dominion turning on them to exact revenge. And although Cardassia Prime was the focal of that, there's nothing to say that Dominion forces elsewhere did not exact a terrible price on Cardassian colonies/outposts[admittedly nothing to support either]. Plus, the destruction of so much of Cardassia Prime would have an impact because it was such a centralised state. Whereas the argument that the fall of Earth would topple the Federation or Starfleet isn't quite the same as it is such a wide ranging multiworld organisation. A huge morale blow but not a death kneel. The destruction of Cardassia Prime would be much more significant. Not the end but it would have cut off the head of the Union pretty effectively.

Ensign Redshirt, I'd probably concur that the Union applying for Federation membership might come about by necessity rather than any other reason.

Reconstruction on Cardassia after the war would be on a wide number of fronts. Not least of which trying to find something new to identify and unite behind. This is something Thor Damar points out about the fall of the Union. So after the war Cardassia has to rediscover something of this - whether an ideology, a person, a cause. Any of which could lead Cardassia in new and different directions or cause a struggle or dissent between different factions.

 

[EmperorTiberius]

If you want to make a post-WWII analogy, Cardassians seem to be like Germans, and the Breen are like the Italians. Founders are Nazis. Cardassians will be administered and will never rise again as a power that they were, except may be the part ruled by the Federation. They might become a terrorist annoyance, but nothing major, unless Klingons/Romulans suffere horrific defeats in other wars and have to withdraw.

I don't see why the Federation part would want independence though. Cardassia is supposed to be resource poor, and I can't see Romulans and Klingons investing too much into regular people's lives.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Spoiler: The Relaunch

The planet becomes a democracy, led by Tekeny Ghemor's cousin. Garak becomes some kind of advisor-guy. The allies turn a lot of former Cardassian space into protectorates, and send lots of food and medicine to Cardassia Prime (Though the planet is still largely ruins at this point in the Relaunch (2377).

Ugh. Not interested in reading anything with a wussed-out Garak.

Nah, Garak should be re-assembling the Obsidian Order and plotting revenge against the Dominion. He might play possum for a while, just to avert suspicion, though.

 

[Thor Damar]

Except that the Germans are one of the most powerful nations in Europe and a respected player on the world scene not to mention the economic powerhouse they became.

So if we're using that analogy then Cardassia should be able to rebuild itself into a functioning space fairing civilization within a few decades.

(although the sever damage to Cardassia Prime is a far worse impediment than even the US/UK bombings of German cities.)

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I also think the Cardassians would want independence out of pride. Not even arrogant pride--even just the simple pride of being able to take care of themselves.

(AND OH MAN this thread is giving me fanfic ideas but I can't spoil them!!!!! Grrrrrrr...)

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

I also think the Cardassians would want independence out of pride. Not even arrogant pride--even just the simple pride of being able to take care of themselves.

And going back to my argument... that's exactly what the early Kira, the Kohn-Ma, the Circle, or Kai Winn would have said.

 

[Thor Damar]

I also think the Cardassians would want independence out of pride. Not even arrogant pride--even just the simple pride of being able to take care of themselves.

(AND OH MAN this thread is giving me fanfic ideas but I can't spoil them!!!!! Grrrrrrr...)

I've had some for quite a while now...and there are no Klingons in mine!

 

[Mr. Scott]

Cardassia is destroyed by the Dominion. When they surrendered, they become occupied by Federation forces and occupied by the Federation.

The Cardassians in 100 years become part of the Federation.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I also think the Cardassians would want independence out of pride. Not even arrogant pride--even just the simple pride of being able to take care of themselves.

And going back to my argument... that's exactly what the early Kira, the Kohn-Ma, the Circle, or Kai Winn would have said.

Yeah, Kira got "assimilated," but what I really wished we'd gotten to see would be someone who opposed Federation membership who was actually REASONABLE and didn't feel they needed to blow stuff up to make their point. Kira could've been that person, but she changed her mind. Admittedly the development made sense, plot-wise, but I would've liked to see someone provide a common-sense, reasonable voice for the other side.

BTW, Thor Damar...keep an eye on your PMs. I've got something coming to you.

 

[EmperorTiberius]

Except that the Germans are one of the most powerful nations in Europe and a respected player on the world scene not to mention the economic powerhouse they became.

So if we're using that analogy then Cardassia should be able to rebuild itself into a functioning space fairing civilization within a few decades.

(although the sever damage to Cardassia Prime is a far worse impediment than even the US/UK bombings of German cities.)

Yeah, but do you think they could invade anybody right now? They're not a powerhouse like they were, even now, 60 some years after the war.

 

[Bones2]

I like to imagine that with weakened Cardassian and Romulan empires, they form an alliance. Meanwhile, the Klingons and Federation are in a cold/warmish war and so through their cooperation, and Cardies and Rommies grow strong enough to be considered quite a power.

They're just my two favourite races I suppose.

 

[Jono]

The game Star Trek Online they have mentioned that some of the Dominion forces in the AQ didn't retreat back to the GQ. One would expect that they would probably occupy ex-Cardassian planets that have been cleansed of Cardassians as per the Founder's order towards the end of the war or planets that were located within the Union's sphere of influence.

 

[DevilEyes]

Spoiler: The Relaunch

The planet becomes a democracy, led by Tekeny Ghemor's cousin. Garak becomes some kind of advisor-guy. The allies turn a lot of former Cardassian space into protectorates, and send lots of food and medicine to Cardassia Prime (Though the planet is still largely ruins at this point in the Relaunch (2377).

Ugh. Not interested in reading anything with a wussed-out Garak.

Nah, Garak should be re-assembling the Obsidian Order and plotting revenge against the Dominion. He might play possum for a while, just to avert suspicion, though.

Now that would be lame and 0 character development. Garak only became a member of the Obsidian Order because fo circumstances and his biological father. And he's too smart to remain locked in such a backwards mindset and stick to something that belongs to the past. That would be betraying the character, as if he never learned anything in all those years, as if he's unable to move forward.

It would be as lame and absurd as if Kira were to go back to blowing things up, hating all Cardassians and ranting against the Federation.

Yeah, Kira got "assimilated,"

Integrated . Not assimilated . There's a big difference.

 

[mirandafave]

I like to imagine that with weakened Cardassian and Romulan empires, they form an alliance. Meanwhile, the Klingons and Federation are in a cold/warmish war and so through their cooperation, and Cardies and Rommies grow strong enough to be considered quite a power.

I think that there is merit to this idea. If I were to fanfic it I think that would be the route I'd go. A very uneasy, untenable alliance mind. I doubt they'd ever trust each other too completely but rather than be 'assimilated' into the culture of the Federation or face the brutes of the Klingon Empire, both would see more opportunity and pride in allying with one another than going it alone, allying with the Federation, or facing the Klingons. Not sure where the Breen would fit into all of this perhaps, they'd just disappear back behind their borders.

 

[Bluesteel]

Well the books aside, I doubt the immediate future of Cardassia would be too rosey. Firstly, there is the huge loss of life from the Dominion exacting revenge.

If you think of the Union has simply a one Species empire. Where most of the planets are full of Cardassians or majority Cardassian. Then losing 1 billion on a single planet won't be much of a disaster. Also the damage was done on C.Prime and presumably Chinktoka.

Kind of like the USSR after WW2. They suffered more then anybody else did during the war and vast territory were devastated by the majority of Russian land/industry escaped intact and were able to capitalize on the advances they made during the war.

Yes but the USSR was at least on the side of the victors. Cardassia is not. On top of being a loser it is also a victim then with the Dominion turning on them to exact revenge. And although Cardassia Prime was the focal of that, there's nothing to say that Dominion forces elsewhere did not exact a terrible price on Cardassian colonies/outposts[admittedly nothing to support either]. Plus, the destruction of so much of Cardassia Prime would have an impact because it was such a centralised state.colonies/outposts[admittedly nothing to support either]

There were problems with the communications. The Cardassian citizens followed Damars advice to sabotage. They cut off all powers to the Dominion which had to relay on emergency power. They couldn't communicate with their forces at the border. If they had the AQ alliance would have never stood a chance of going to Cardassia. The Founder noticed that the centre line was to weak which gave them the Allies an opportunity. So the damage was presumably only in Cardassia Prime.

Plus, the destruction of so much of Cardassia Prime would have an impact because it was such a centralised state. Whereas the argument that the fall of Earth would topple the Federation or Starfleet isn't quite the same as it is such a wide ranging multiworld organisation. A huge morale blow but not a death kneel. The destruction of Cardassia Prime would be much more significant. Not the end but it would have cut off the head of the Union pretty effectively.

I don't know. I think it would be like what happened on Bajor. Now what the Cardassians suffered was on a bigger scale but they have more resources at hand. I can't remember exactly when but I do remember sometime during the show that Bajor was recovered from Occupation. Now the Cardassians with the help of the rest of the Union along with aid from the Federation would recover in a span of 10 to 20 years. Add in the repirations from the Dominion that would speed them up.

Reconstruction on Cardassia after the war would be on a wide number of fronts. Not least of which trying to find something new to identify and unite behind. This is something Thor Damar points out about the fall of the Union. So after the war Cardassia has to rediscover something of this - whether an ideology, a person, a cause. Any of which could lead Cardassia in new and different directions or cause a struggle or dissent between different factions.

In my own head what I would think would happen is that. The people would become nationalistic and xenophobic to outsiders ruling them. Especially after Damar and many other millions gave their lives to free them from Dominion rule. A civilian government would take over with major influences from the military (living on Damars legacy) where some weird co-existence will happen). Kind of like Turkey. During the Ataturk days.

They wouldn't be has powerful has they where but just enough to be a regional power.

 

[PSGarak]

I also see a lot of merit in the idea that Cardassia and Romulus would form some sort of alliance to resist Federation influence and control. The Obsidian Order and the Tal Shiar had a history of joint endeavors when it suited their own ends, so they were not completely averse to working together, even before the Dominion War. Culturally, they have far more in common than with humans, Klingons, or other Federation races.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Then again, if I were a Cardassian, I think I'd trust a Romulan about as far as I could throw him.