Cardassia after the war.

[Bluesteel]

This question has been gnawing at me since I watched the last episode.

Do they get occupied?
How bad was the war damage?

Here is what I got.


If it wasn't for the Cardassians the AQ allies would have never been able to defeat the Dominion. The turning point came when Cardassians turned against their Dominion allies. Literally. The AQ allies were suffering massive losses in the last border battle and they would have never stood a chance in Cardassia Prime without Cardassian ships. So they might let them off. Especially since they saw Damar has important.



From my perspective. Cardassia is an Empire with.The Dominion came and upgraded them. Stopping the starvation and giving them technology. During the war The Dominion stopped Allies from taking over Cardassian space outside of Chintoka. The rest were hit and run that hit only military infrastructure. That would mean the vast majority of Cardassia left the war better off then when they joined the Dominion. Especially the colonies that were taken over by the Klingons. All the Cardassians have to do is fix up Cardassia Prime and Chintoka system. Shouldn't be hard.

 

[apenpaap]

Spoiler: The Relaunch

The planet becomes a democracy, led by Tekeny Ghemor's cousin. Garak becomes some kind of advisor-guy. The allies turn a lot of former Cardassian space into protectorates, and send lots of food and medicine to Cardassia Prime (Though the planet is still largely ruins at this point in the Relaunch (2377).

 

[nx1701g]

^

Spoiler: Also - about Garak

He becomes Cardassia's Ambassador to the Federation.

 

[DevilEyes]

Spoiler: The Relaunch

The planet becomes a democracy, led by Tekeny Ghemor's cousin. Garak becomes some kind of advisor-guy. The allies turn a lot of former Cardassian space into protectorates, and send lots of food and medicine to Cardassia Prime (Though the planet is still largely ruins at this point in the Relaunch (2377).

Isn't he Ghemor's nephew?

I have only read "A Stitch in Time", but I'm not surprised by these developments, as that's what the ending seemed to set up. That book describes the devastation of Cardassia very strongly. The death toll is said to be over 1 billion (in the last episode of DS9, it was said that there were 600 million dead, but these were early estaimates, they were still pulling out the dead and counting them afterwards, so the final body count ended up being much higher). Was this the biggest genocide in the Star Trek universe ever, before Star Trek XI came out?

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Are we counting Borg assimilation as genocide or no?

Oh, and you're right--Alon Ghemor is described in the books as Tekeny's nephew.

 

[Jono]

Was this the biggest genocide in the Star Trek universe ever, before Star Trek XI came out?

Unlikely when you have planet busters like Species 8472 and the Doomsday machine around.

 

[DevilEyes]

Was this the biggest genocide in the Star Trek universe ever, before Star Trek XI came out?

Unlikely when you have planet busters like Species 8472 and the Doomsday machine around.

Ah, you're right.

I'll just change it to "biggest genocide that a Trek show did not ignore".

 

[apenpaap]

The death toll is said to be over 1 billion (in the last episode of DS9, it was said that there were 600 million dead, but these were early estaimates, they were still pulling out the dead and counting them afterwards, so the final body count ended up being much higher).

Lots of people likely died from radiation, diseases and roving bands of maniacs afterwards.

 

[Thor Damar]

Plus the complete destruction of Prime's entire infrastructure.

It seems that the Union is divided up into protectorates each being administrated by one of the Three major AQ victors. I assuming that any and all client worlds of the Union in the UFP's sphere is given political freedom from the Cardassian Empire and 'encouraged' to join the Federation, the worlds colonised by the Cardassians themselves are probably given a degree of autonomy but are disarmed and have a peacekeeping force attached to them.

The Klingons will simply run their slice of the ex Cardassian Union in the typically brutal and useless fashion.

And as for the Romulans? The only race as cunning and devious as the Romulans are the Cardassians themselves so who can tell...

I think that the Cardassian Union is now dead and the worlds and peoples of that formerly great institution will entire need to build something better or remain under the power of outside forces.

I'm confident that the Cardassian people will prevail.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

It's interesting how many Alpha/Beta Quadrant powers have bitten the dust in the primeverse:

Cardassia devastated in 2375, Romulus destroyed in 2387 (Star Trek XI), and if Sloan was right with his assessment in "Inter Ama Enim Silent Leges" the Klingons were licking their wounds during the decade that followed the war. This would leave the Federation as the unchallenged dominant power of the Quadrant.

A weakened, but also democratic Cardassian Union could soon become an ally of the Federation, maybe even apply for membership. Cardassia would in a position similar to Bajor's in 2369.

And the remnants of the Romulan Empire could suffer from widespread chaos, lack of central leadership, and maye even civil war. Romulan piracy along the (former?) Neutral Zone is also a possibilty.

By 2387, the Klingons would have recovered from the Dominion war though.

 

[Thor Damar]

Why and how can the Klingon Empire recover from all it's wars and constant expansionism? All the other Empires run into imperial overstretch and economic decline but the Klingons?

Nah, the iron laws of history do not apply to the noble warriors of Qo'noS, in fact they started another drive to expand the empire immediately after the most costly war in Klingon history!
Meanwhile the death of a dozen or so politicians paves the way for the complete collapse of the RSE.

Without the Federation the KE would suffer on of the worst economic and societal declines in AQ history, at least that's how I personally see it.

(can you tell that I'm not one of the biggest Klingon fans?)

 

[Bluesteel]

Spoiler: The Relaunch

The planet becomes a democracy, led by Tekeny Ghemor's cousin. Garak becomes some kind of advisor-guy. The allies turn a lot of former Cardassian space into protectorates, and send lots of food and medicine to Cardassia Prime (Though the planet is still largely ruins at this point in the Relaunch (2377).

Ah the books. I wanted to know what the opinion you guys had. Ignore the books.

I find them to be a bit soap operay and generally silly. Two wonderful examples.

Spoiler: The books

Unjoined Trill find out that half of them can be joined and then they resort to Terrorism. The other. A planet starts a war with the Klingons. The federation had armed the planet secretly so a lot of Klingons die. Suprise Suprise Captain Jean-Luc comes and solves all of the problems with legal klingon technicality.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

Meanwhile the death of a dozen or so politicians paves the way for the complete collapse of the RSE.

Well, it happened far more than just the death of a few politicians. We don't exactly know what percentage of the Romulan population was living on Romulus, but I'd bet it was by far the most densely populated (and probably also the most industrialized) planet.

It all depends on how many planets exist in the Romulan Empire though (20, 200, or 2000? No canonial numbers exist really). But I'd say the destruction of the Romulan star system would have a similar effect like the destruction of the British Isles would have been on the British Empire.

In "The Undiscovered Country", the destruction of Praxis and the possible contamination of Qo'noS was supposedly leading to a collapse of the Klingon Empire (also see above).

Without the Federation the KE would suffer on of the worst economic and societal declines in AQ history, at least that's how I personally see it.

Well, the Khitomer Accords were signed because the Empire was threatened by collapse after all.

 

[Thor Damar]

I do see where your coming from and the British Isle analogy is certainly apt. I was talking about the crisis on Romulus during the events of Nemesis. I should have made that clear in my earlier post, sorry.

 

[DevilEyes]

Spoiler: The Relaunch

The planet becomes a democracy, led by Tekeny Ghemor's cousin. Garak becomes some kind of advisor-guy. The allies turn a lot of former Cardassian space into protectorates, and send lots of food and medicine to Cardassia Prime (Though the planet is still largely ruins at this point in the Relaunch (2377).

Ah the books. I wanted to know what the opinion you guys had. Ignore the books.

I find them to be a bit soap operay and generally silly. Two wonderful examples.

Spoiler: The books

Unjoined Trill find out that half of them can be joined and then they resort to Terrorism. The other. A planet starts a war with the Klingons. The federation had armed the planet secretly so a lot of Klingons die. Suprise Suprise Captain Jean-Luc comes and solves all of the problems with legal klingon technicality.

Some books are good, some are not. No need for generalizations. IMO "A Stitch in Time" is excellent, not just as a ST book but even on its own.

But I am aware that books are not canon... which comes in handy with the more ridiculous storylines in some of them. My attitude is basically: if I like a book's plot, I recognize it, if I don't, I ignore it.

 

[Bluesteel]

I do see where your coming from and the British Isle analogy is certainly apt. I was talking about the crisis on Romulus during the events of Nemesis. I should have made that clear in my earlier post, sorry.

From what I've seen of the Empires in Trek. They don't seem to compare to Western European Empires. The British Empire was created and run solely for the profit of the UK. When people moved to places like Australia,New Zealand and Canada they were given free rein to largely handle their own affairs. In fact some where even pushed towards indepedance. Newfoundland may have been part of the United Kingdom but the UK wasn't interested.

The Romulan/Klingon Empires seem to be run more like the Russian Empire. The Core is Moscow but every other region is important. In fact the vast majority of Russia now is conquered territory. Russian places like Sochi used be full of people who were Muslims but the Russians either killed them or exiled them. Then they sent in Russian colonists to take their place. Major parts of Ukraine used to have a very large muslim population. They were displaced by Slavs by the Russian Empire. So now when you go to places in Ukraine that used to be Muslim you get Orthodox churches with people who have been there for so long they don't know if they were actually living there for centuries or not.

Spoiler: The Relaunch

The planet becomes a democracy, led by Tekeny Ghemor's cousin. Garak becomes some kind of advisor-guy. The allies turn a lot of former Cardassian space into protectorates, and send lots of food and medicine to Cardassia Prime (Though the planet is still largely ruins at this point in the Relaunch (2377).

Ah the books. I wanted to know what the opinion you guys had. Ignore the books.

I find them to be a bit soap operay and generally silly. Two wonderful examples.

Spoiler: The books

Unjoined Trill find out that half of them can be joined and then they resort to Terrorism. The other. A planet starts a war with the Klingons. The federation had armed the planet secretly so a lot of Klingons die. Suprise Suprise Captain Jean-Luc comes and solves all of the problems with legal klingon technicality.

Some books are good, some are not. No need for generalizations. IMO "A Stitch in Time" is excellent, not just as a ST book but even on its own.


But I am aware that books are not canon... which comes in handy with the more ridiculous storylines in some of them. My attitude is basically: if I like a book's plot, I recognize it, if I don't, I ignore it.

Don't these Relaunch books follow each other and exist in the same Universe? So if you have one book with a ludicrous plot

Spoiler: The books

like the assination of a Federation President by Starfleet Officers.

then would the others just completely ignore it or contradict it?

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

Don't these Relaunch books follow each other and exist in the same Universe? So if you have one book with a ludicrous plot

Spoiler: The books

like the assination of a Federation President by Starfleet Officers.

Wasn't this the plot of "The Undiscovered Country" too?

 

[mirandafave]

Well the books aside, I doubt the immediate future of Cardassia would be too rosey. Firstly, there is the huge loss of life from the Dominion exacting revenge. The fall out from radiation and the subsequent shortages after losing a war. Cardassia Prime itself in the first place already had suffered a calamity that pushed the Union into expansion. [In ways like the Klingons - it was a case of expand in order to survive.]

After the war likely as the books appear to say, the spoils would be divided up into protectorates by the major powers remaining. I cna imagine that all of them will cause problems. Strangely, I think Romulan control might best fit the Cardassian idea of state and governance. i can't imagine that a move to democracy will go too smoothly. there'd be terrorist atrocities against the perceived occupying forces no matter how noble the cause [in the case of the Federation]. there'd be a huge, major change of heart and life for the cardassian people coming out from under quite a totalitarian regime.

And the other huge consideration then is the future direction of the Union - does it embrace democracy as a form of government? Will they ally with the Federation there enemy and antagonist for a long time? If not the Federation surely not the Klingons? Can they trust the Romulans and vice versa? So do they ally themselves for strength and support with other lesser powers?

And then there are the divisions within the society. The military and centralised government have failed the Cardassian people - there'll be war crime tribunals, lengthy drawn out affairs highlighting the crimes and mistakes of the military junta and how they crawled into bed with the Dominion. Not to mention the civil strife between those who always opposed membership to the Dominion and those who came late to it, joining Damar's cause and those who held defiantly onto the tails of the Dominion hoping for a victory against the Federation and power and glory for them and Cardassia. I think Cardassia would have many dark days ahead of it.

They'd prevail in the end of course.

 

[PSGarak]

I don't think Cardassia would ever find the Federation a comfortable fit. The ideologies are too disparate. Just because they have suffered because of overweening and having a militaristic dictatorship does not mean that afterwards, every Cardassian would suddenly say, "Oh, how wrong we were. Bestow us with your enlightened ways, oh great and wonderful Federation!"

No, I think they would see any occupation, even a supposedly benevolent one, as an affront to their racial and cultural identity. To paraphrase some extremists in my own neck of the woods, "Cardassia will rise again." It may just be a long time in coming.

 

[Thor Damar]

My personal view is that the old Cardassian Union which lasted for five centuries and was, for good or ill, a proud and cultured civilization died during the Dominion Occupation and the War.
The whole Empire became a staging area for the Dominion forces and Cardassia Prime merely a Headquarters facility for the Founders and Vorta.

When they gave Union territory to the Breen and the Cardassian government and agencies could do nothing, the CU of old ceased to be.

If the Union could not protect the sovereign territories of the Cardassian people from being arbitrary ceded to a foreign power, then it was no longer the heart of the Cardassian soul.
(it is even worse when one considers that the Breen did not even meet the CU in conflict for those worlds. At least the Bajorans, Federation and yes the Klingon's had to fight for their victories)

In fact once the Obsidan Order and the Central Command fell then it may be truly said that the Union that had served the Cardassian people for so long had met its end.

The noble attempt to lay the foundations for a new and brighter successor state were sadly strangled at birth by the Klingons and the Dominion(along with the dying remnants of the old regime).

If history has taught us anything it's that even in the worse of circumstances a civilization can rebuild and renew itself.
So too can Cardassia.