Spoilers Captain America: Civil War - Grading & Discussion

[FPAlpha]

Hoo boy, I'm glad I didn't watch the trailers - they give too damn much away, as usual. Anyhow, my take:

As good as Avengers: Civil War is - and it's quite good - it's also inessential in much the same way Week of Ultron was. Enter Spidey and Panther, back to sleep for Barnes and maybe Rhodey's fighting days are done, but apart from that, things end up for our heroes more or less the place they start. Sure, the Avengers are on pause, but they'll be back for the Thanos fight as surely as Supes will be back for Justice League, and neither movie bothers to hide that. And while I feel for Bucky, after three movies, he's still little more than a blank. I kept expecting him to offer to let Tony kill him, particularly after he noted that, at fault or not, he did do the stuff he did. (I also expected Pepper to call and tell them all to cut their sh*t out.)

The Russo Brothers have said they couldn't bear to draft a version of this movie without Spidey. To which I reply: huh? Sure, he was lots of fun, but he could absolutely have been cut, and the movie's narrative and themes would be virtually unchanged; their wasn't any hint of an enhanced registration act directly affecting him. Similarly, though the Nigeria battle was cool, it served barely any story purpose. Also: the UN invites a psychologist to interrogate the world's most important prison, and not a single person notices he looks nothing like he's supposed to... okay, fine, that's dumb, but I'll play along. But why did the Stark hit require defrosting the Winter Soldier?! They were apparently unarmed; any two-bit clown could have taken them out!

IIRC, Feige has promised that Thor: Ragnarok will shake up the MCU Phase 3 status quo they way The Winter Soldier stirred up Phase 2, and with Loki on the throne in Asgard, and the action going cosmic, that certainly makes sense. That may have been my most anticipated non-Infiinity War flick of the phase, as I'm a big Dark World booster, and this movie does nothing to change that.

To be clear, Civil War is far, far better than BvS, and it's a fine flick. But it's not great on the level of Days of Future Past, and it's not as good as The Avengers either; though I appreciated the novel (for the MCU) lack of a massive action climax, it's yet another Marvel Studios movie without a really hissable or memorable villain. I'll give it a

B+, and hope Apocalypse will, like First Class and DoFP, be even better. (That said, this does make Marvel Studios 13 for 13, an absolutely amazing run with no signs of letting up.)

Pretty much agree with you (may be the first time )

I gave it a B and it adapted the awesome Civil War storyline very well to the MCU (they couldn't obviously include the whole Marvel lineup in the movie so they made the second best thing).

Chadwick Bozeman was awesome as T'Challa and his fighting skill is impressive, very fast and fluid.. like a Panther (see what i did there? No? Whatever!). Small easter egg was his suit effortlessly withstanding heavy machine gun fire and him not budging an inch.. guess what the suit incorporates

Spidey.. for the comparately short time he was in there he was awesome. Tom Holland is a remarkable good fit for the role, even after Tobey Maguire who really brought the role to life in the movies (at least the first two). I'll be definitely seeing his solo movie and have high expectations now.. more proof that all Marvel characters should be returned to Marvel because they obviously get their own characters and seemingly effortlesly make them better what other have tried in multiple movies (imagine their take on the Fantastic Four if they had the chance and would be willing).

Civil War itself.. a seamless continuation of the entire MCU story and it was so integrated that it felt more like Avengers 2.5 than a pure Cap movie which may be the reason i "only" gave it a B but when you use the Civil War storyline you can't make it Cap only but it's not too bad because it is a Cap centric storyline and the crumbling friendship with Tony was quite well done i think (nice "I could do this all day" throwback but i would have even liked the scene from the comics better where Cap is standing all torn up yelling "I'm not going down to a pampered punk like you" but MCU Steve is not that crass).

The other detractors are minor.. as Gaith has said Black Panther and Spiderman are really not essential to the story but have obviously been included as setup for future movies which is ok but it kinda also distracts needlessly.. i think Cap 3 is the longest movie and could have used some more editing but then again i know jack shit about the realities of movie making and movie decisions

All considered it is a very good and entertaining movie, full of easter eggs for comic book fans and for the general audience and engaging storyline however it kind of still won't make it to my Top 3 MCU movies (The Avengers, Cap 2, Guardians of the Galaxy in that order) but it may be a contender for Top 5 at least.

 

[Kemaiku]

Guess what the suit incorporates...

Don't have to, the dialogue establishes that it's vibranium. How they managed to make a metallic thread weave that fine is another matter.

And those claw marks in Cap's shield are there to stay as well.

Looks like it's Adamantium all over again.

 

[kirk55555]

Forgot to post about this earlier. This was an awesome movie. Not quite my favorite MCU movie (that's probably still the first Avengers movie), but its close. This is how you make a good hero vs hero movie. Unlike what some reviews said I was never on Tony's side, and not because I was on Cap's side in the comics. I just felt he was wrong. Still, at the end when Stark went "He killed my Mom", even if I didn't agree with him, I felt for him (although the line wasn't really related to the accords, so I still wasn't on his side with that). That one line was powerful. I liked how all the characters got time for themselves, but it still felt like a Captain America movie. They struck a good balance with that.

The action in the movie was also great. The airport fight was my favorite, but all the action scenes were mind blowing. As for the new characters, both Black Panther and Spider-Man were good. I'm even more hyped for BP's movie. When it comes to spider-Man, I'll never like Teen Peter as much as adult Peter, so I still think Toby Macquire is the best Spider-Man. Still, the new guy is pretty good, and is a great teen Peter (much better than Andrew Garfield). I'm definitely more interested in his movie after this, even if the title is bad.

Overall, I think this is another hit for Marvel. They're still THE superhero movie franchise, with FOX's X-Men a distant second and DC not even remotely close to either.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I thought that this was basically excellent.

It was really an Avengers movie. I loved the ending and the new base in Wakanda. Big thumbs up for Spider-Man, Black Panther, Scarlet Witch, Vision, Falcon, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Ant-Man/Giant-Man, War Machine, Winter Soldier, Agent 13, .... Oh, wait, that's all the supporting characters, with the exception of Iron Man, right? Stan Lee's cameo was hilarious, as it often is.

I was disappointed to see Tony being so immature and acting like a spoiled brat, but that's Tony core, I suppose. William Hurt was great reprising his roll as Ross.

As far as the problems I had immediately with the film, it was unclear what Zemo's ultimate purpose is. I suspect that that's for future films to deal with. And War Machine's fall from the sky should have killed him, just as the same was true of Tony's fall from the sky in the first Iron Man. But, again, maybe there's some magic inertial dampener that offers partial protection to the occupant of an Iron Man suit, but I've never picked up any techno-babble about it.

Once more, I really loved how Spider-Man was handled. Just as I loved how Black Panther, Scarlet Witch, Vision, etc. etc.....

A.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

I'm still amazed at the young RDJr effects! Maybe I'm easily pleased, but wow, they've come a long way from X-Men 3!

 

[DEWLine]

I'm guessing LOLA did the work on Teen Tony here?

 

[DEWLine]

117 nations as charter signatories to the Sokovia Accords. I suspect that shoe-ins for that list include the USA, Nigeria, Wakanda, and Sokovia. Who else?

 

[Star Wolf]

117 nations as charter signatories to the Sokovia Accords. I suspect that shoe-ins for that list include the USA, Nigeria, Wakanda, and Sokovia. Who else?

I guess the real question is are there more than 193 members of the MCU UN and why did the rest opt out. We already have had SHIELD secret warriors, a Colombian police department had its own enhanced person. And if I interpreted the movie and Aunt May situation correctly Tony Stark has his own secret warrior from Queens

 

[DEWLine]

That's an interesting question to pursue re: MCU's version of the UN membership roster. The maps we've seen with national borders marked out in Iron Man 2 and Winter Soldier weren't designed with Sokovia and Wakanda included. Probably Sokovia wasn't a firm thing until the final draft of Age of Ultron was locked down, although Wakanda should've been anticipated earlier on.

How many other established-in-the-comics fictional nations should we anticipate as being "fit for inclusion"? Genosha, Madripoor, Latveria...all off-limits for the time being for assorted contractual reasons...

 

[Velocity]

I take it you didn't see the final trailer, which had already spoiled that?

That's what my son said, but no, I tend to avoid a lot of trailers because they usually spoil the best bits.

 

[Star Wolf]

Was it just me or when Colonel Zemo first found that Winter Soldier squad in Siberia did the one they focused on look like Superman?

 

[Alidar Jarok]

How many other established-in-the-comics fictional nations should we anticipate as being "fit for inclusion"? Genosha, Madripoor, Latveria...all off-limits for the time being for assorted contractual reasons...

I suspect Madripoor is owned by Fox, I can all but guarantee Genosha and Latveria are. I suspect Transia is Marvel-owned, fwiw. Also, Symkaria is probably Sony-owned (which means Marvel has a decent chance of including it if they wanted to).

 

[DEWLine]

Transia's been introduced in the MCU as a corporation in AoSHIELD.

 

[Karzak]

Yeah, I noticed that line had a different take. I wasn't sure at first, but I watched the trailer and then saw the film again, and it's as you said, more "good riddance" than remorse.

It's a different take in this trailer also:

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[Set Harth]

The maps we've seen with national borders marked out in Iron Man 2 and Winter Soldier weren't designed with Sokovia and Wakanda included. Probably Sokovia wasn't a firm thing until the final draft of Age of Ultron was locked down, although Wakanda should've been anticipated earlier on.

The icon that's in Africa on the map seen in Iron Man 2 has got to be a reference to Black Panther ( Wakanda ). What else could it be?

 

[Samurai8472]

Fantastic movie. The beginning started a bit slow


They're really working that de-aging trick with a now 21 year old Stark. That was amazing

I have a feeling an Iron Man 4 should at least mend Stark's relationship with Potts.

They just can't leave it like that.

I thought Ant-man's "Anyone got Orange Slices?" kinda fell flat but the "Someone just went through me!" got huge laughs

Winter Soldier and Sam were great

"Can you put your seat up?

"No"



The running joke with no one knowing Scott Lang was great

There were a couple "Wooo!" when Sharon Carter kissed Steve


Everyone got a chance to shine


Vision has to deal with the consequences of injuring Rhodey

Rhodey needs physical therapy

Wanda has to deal with the consequences of killing people in Lagos

Clint is now a wanted felon with bad blood between Stark now.

Ant-man is a felon........again. So what's new? lol


Reintroducing Spider-man was a big task. I'd say this did a better job than Affleck as Batman.

We find out he's only been Spider-man for 6 months with a raggedy suit

He's even poorer than the other Peter Parker's we've known in the last 14 years

Dumpster diving for computer parts and using an old Mac

He lives in an apartment with his aunt may

I think Stark helping him out too much with all his gear might end up being a crutch later on

Now that Stark's around why not just give them a bit of money to buy a house?

I think Daniel Bruhl was the best villain yet.

He was the most down to earth one yet

He wasn't a Megalomaniac

Dark Elf
Kree warrior Ronon
CGI Robot with homicidal tendencies

He was just a man who lost his family who wanted revenge

Black Panther was awesome. They nailed his character pretty well. They demonstrated Wakanda's advanced tech pretty well.


I might have missed something but what was Winter Soldier's mission in 1991?

Steal some blue liquid?

I don't think we even got an explanation for that

 

[Set Harth]

Super soldier serum used to create the other Winter Soldiers.

 

[Xerxes82]

I might have missed something but what was Winter Soldier's mission in 1991?

Steal some blue liquid?

I don't think we even got an explanation for that

Steal the counterfeit super soldier serum. That's how Hydra created the copycat Winter Soldiers.

 

[davejames]

Thought the movie was pretty good overall, and loved the airport battle... but there was still a certain freshness that seemed to be lacking somehow. We've seen these characters in action so many times by now that I just don't find it nearly as thrilling to watch as I used to, and after sitting through a similar storyline with BvS (albeit much more clumsily told), I had a hard time working up much interest in it again.

It also suffered from the same fundamental issue I had with BvS in that I didn't really buy the conflict escalating as much as it did. No matter how many different ways the movie tried to justify it, I just didn't buy Tony's side being as stubborn and thick-headed as they were and deciding to completely capitulate to the government's wishes and not trust in Cap or listen to what he was trying to say with regard to Bucky. And while there has certainly been some collateral damage over the years, the idea that the people and governments of the world wouldn't recognize the tremendous good the Avengers have done or the massive threats they've helped stop, seems like a stretch as well.

 

[FPAlpha]

As far as the problems I had immediately with the film, it was unclear what Zemo's ultimate purpose is. I suspect that that's for future films to deal with.
A.

Did you walk out before the end?

Zemo was a Sokovian Black Ops operative whose family was killed in that battle (the same with the black kid that Tony gets confronted with early in the movie).

Realizing that her personally can't fight the Avengers he comes up with a plan to have them fight each other by striking at their weakness. He impersonates Winter Soldier when he orchestrated the UN bombing that also killed T'Chaka (though he admits he's sorry about that since he had no issue with Wakanda) and used the Sokovia Accords to further rile up the team.

His ultimate goal may have been the hope that some Avengers would die in the interteam fight but splitting them up and destroying their friendships and trust still counts as a win for him as evident from his interrogation at the end of the movie.