Spoilers Captain America: Civil War - Grading & Discussion

[M.A.C.O.]

Just got back from seeing this and I really enjoyed myself.

I'm happy to see it was focused on Steve and Tony. I must contend that Zemo's plan was a better than Lex Luthor's, but both were absurdly conceived.

The fight in the airport was cool for the first couple of minutes, but then I started to get bored. Giant Man brought my interest back though.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I realized earlier that this movie actually ended with a similar set up as the comics, with one government sanctioned team of Avengers and a second underground team. I was also a little disappointed we didn't get any kind of hints or set up for Dr. Strange.

I was trying to figure out a good way to set that up since the movies have done a good job of making the post-credits scene relevant to what just happened in the movie. The only thing I could think of was have Spider-Man swinging through Manhattan and have him go past a certain house in Greenwich Village. Overall, I don't think that scene would have the same impact as the one we saw.

I want to point out that no movie teased Ant-Man in advance. More importantly, we got teasers for Black Panther and Spider-Man. That's pretty good!

 

[JD]

That's good point about Ant-Man, I honestly didn't notice that.
I did love the teases for Spider-Man and Black Panther, so I'm not to upset. It was a very minor issue for me.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I thought the "So was I" line was a different take too. The feeling wasn't so much remorse as "good riddance," it seemed (although maybe it was more context than line delivery).

Yeah, I noticed that line had a different take. I wasn't sure at first, but I watched the trailer and then saw the film again, and it's as you said, more "good riddance" than remorse.

 

[Gaith]

Hoo boy, I'm glad I didn't watch the trailers - they give too damn much away, as usual. Anyhow, my take:

As good as Avengers: Civil War is - and it's quite good - it's also inessential in much the same way Week of Ultron was. Enter Spidey and Panther, back to sleep for Barnes and maybe Rhodey's fighting days are done, but apart from that, things end up for our heroes more or less the place they start. Sure, the Avengers are on pause, but they'll be back for the Thanos fight as surely as Supes will be back for Justice League, and neither movie bothers to hide that. And while I feel for Bucky, after three movies, he's still little more than a blank. I kept expecting him to offer to let Tony kill him, particularly after he noted that, at fault or not, he did do the stuff he did. (I also expected Pepper to call and tell them all to cut their sh*t out.)

The Russo Brothers have said they couldn't bear to draft a version of this movie without Spidey. To which I reply: huh? Sure, he was lots of fun, but he could absolutely have been cut, and the movie's narrative and themes would be virtually unchanged; their wasn't any hint of an enhanced registration act directly affecting him. Similarly, though the Nigeria battle was cool, it served barely any story purpose. Also: the UN invites a psychologist to interrogate the world's most important prison, and not a single person notices he looks nothing like he's supposed to... okay, fine, that's dumb, but I'll play along. But why did the Stark hit require defrosting the Winter Soldier?! They were apparently unarmed; any two-bit clown could have taken them out!

IIRC, Feige has promised that Thor: Ragnarok will shake up the MCU Phase 3 status quo they way The Winter Soldier stirred up Phase 2, and with Loki on the throne in Asgard, and the action going cosmic, that certainly makes sense. That may have been my most anticipated non-Infiinity War flick of the phase, as I'm a big Dark World booster, and this movie does nothing to change that.

To be clear, Civil War is far, far better than BvS, and it's a fine flick. But it's not great on the level of Days of Future Past, and it's not as good as The Avengers either; though I appreciated the novel (for the MCU) lack of a massive action climax, it's yet another Marvel Studios movie without a really hissable or memorable villain. I'll give it a

B+, and hope Apocalypse will, like First Class and DoFP, be even better. (That said, this does make Marvel Studios 13 for 13, an absolutely amazing run with no signs of letting up.)

 

[Set Harth]

Take that, triskaidekaphobics!

 

[Duncan MacLeod]

Comics Peter started out as Spider-Man at age 15.

Only in the Ultimate verse.
In the 616 verse, though not explicitly stated, he was about 17 or 18. He graduates from high school in issue 28. Each issue was usually a couple of days long in those days with another few days for down-time between adventures. Figure it averaged a week per issue, that would give you 6 and a half months. Not even one school year. Conclusion: Peter was probably a senior, when he became Spider-man. You could stretch things a bit to him getting the bite at the very end of his junior year, but that still would make him 17.

Anything that says otherwise is a retcon.

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Amazing_Spider-Man_Vol_1_28

 

[JD]

Yeah, I read through the descriptions of the first several years worth of Spider-Man comics on Comixology a while back, and I was shocked how little time he actually spent in high school. Taking that into account, it is a little strange that he's become so famous for being a high schooler. I think his marriage to Mary Jane probably lasted longer in real time that his time in high school.

 

[Duncan MacLeod]

JD, I think it's because he got started in high school. Mind you, he was in college for a long time. Between grad school and his undergrad program he was in college well into the 90s I think. That may be the source of some of the confusion as well. High school or college, he was a student for most of his career as a super.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Only in the Ultimate verse.
In the 616 verse, though not explicitly stated, he was about 17 or 18. He graduates from high school in issue 28. Each issue was usually a couple of days long in those days with another few days for down-time between adventures. Figure it averaged a week per issue, that would give you 6 and a half months. Not even one school year. Conclusion: Peter was probably a senior, when he became Spider-man. You could stretch things a bit to him getting the bite at the very end of his junior year, but that still would make him 17.

Anything that says otherwise is a retcon.

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Amazing_Spider-Man_Vol_1_28

In the first Civil War comic, when he revealed his identity to the world, he said he had been Spider-Man since he was 15.

 

[Duncan MacLeod]

I believe I already covered that. It was a retcon, by a hack who didn't bother to check. In the original storyline that was clearly not the case.

 

[Gryffindorian]

Also, in this movie people blamed the Avengers for the collateral damage in Sokovia when it was clearly Ultron who was ultimately responsible for the devastation and loss of life. In The Winter Soldier, Hydra was to blame for the conflict that arose within SHIELD.

While I agree that accountability and oversight are necessary when it comes to how the Avengers operate, the culpability was misplaced.

 

[Wyse]

But why did the Stark hit require defrosting the Winter Soldier?! They were apparently unarmed; any two-bit clown could have taken them out!

The only reason people on tumblr could come up with, was Howard was the one who signed the papers that gave Barnes over to Zola for experimentation, or at least he approved the funding for Zola's experiments, so maybe Hydra wanted him to see the consequences of that first hand. Howard did recognize Bucky before he was killed, I believe?

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I believe I already covered that. It was a retcon, by a hack who didn't bother to check. In the original storyline that was clearly not the case.

And that wasn't Mark Millar's only Spider-Man retcon. There's also his notorious series Trouble, which makes Aunt May Peter's actual mother. Thankfully, everyone has ignored that...

 

[JD]

Seriously? That's one hell of a retcon.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Seriously? That's one hell of a retcon.

Seriously. Trouble is about May and Ben when they were teenagers. May and her best friend and Ben and his brother Richard are at the beach for the summer, where they do teenager things like drink and have sex. May becomes pregnant (she's sleeping with both Ben and Richard Parker), and she gives up the child to her best friend and her new boyfriend, Richard Parker, to raise. So, Peter is really the child of Richard and May (as Ben is sterile), not Richard and Mary, and when Richard and Mary die, Peter ends up being raised by his uncle and his real mother, whom he believes to be his aunt.

Here's the thing. On its own terms, Trouble isn't bad. Millar was deliberately writing a Marvel romance comic, albeit a darker one (since it had sex and drinking) than Marvel published in the 50s and 60s. It's when you try to make it "fit" with established Spider-Man continuity that you want to scream.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I believe I already covered that. It was a retcon, by a hack who didn't bother to check. In the original storyline that was clearly not the case.

Who wrote that speech, Mark Millar or J. Michael Straczynski?

 

[Star Wolf]

Also, in this movie people blamed the Avengers for the collateral damage in Sokovia when it was clearly Ultron who was ultimately responsible for the devastation and loss of life. In The Winter Soldier, Hydra was to blame for the conflict that arose within SHIELD.

While I agree that accountability and oversight are necessary when it comes to how the Avengers operate, the culpability was misplaced.

In the MCU Stark is ultimately blamed for Ultron and the Avengers as his vigilante group

 

[urbandefault]

Wow, just Wow. This movie was everything that BvS wasnt. God i hated BvS with a passion and its great to see a comic book movie done correctly.

Also this movie was sooo much better than Age of Ultron. Its like the writers realized where they screwed up and fixed those mistakes.
1 mistake that really bothered me about Ultron was it felt like know one died or was really hurt. Felt like everyone was saved . But this movie, right off the bat, people got killed, was darker and more serious. I really loved that.
Plus everyone was more fleshed out this time with Falcon, Rhodes, Wanda, an Vision not feeling like the B team.
Up till this movie, i could of cared less about Ant Man, Spiderman, and Black Panther. Now i actually want to watch Ant man and will go see Spiderman and Black Panther movies.
Humor was great, action was great and the ending i did not see coming. Unlike BvS these hero's fought through most of the movie and ended with Stark all broken and hating Captain America and Bucky, and honestly i cant blame Stark either. To watch your parents get killed and having Bucky right next to him, he acted like most of us would of and hearing that Cap knew this and was still protecting his buddy , yeah his anger was justified and made sense to me.

The few things i didnt like where the movie didnt feel long enough, Which is funny cause it was like what 2.5 hrs long i believe. About as long as BvS which felt forever.
Zemo, i get this story and made sense. But man i would of loved to of seen our hero's fight those 5 Winter Solders or just that one bad ass dude that was kicking Buckys ass. And after that battle have Cap,Bucky vs Stark. But im sure that might be over kill.
Just kinda of missing that big bad but we all know thats coming soon.
Another thing that bothers me about Marvel and this movie, how in hell can they keep acting like Agents of Shield is not happening? All of those Inhumans out there causing trouble, Ward being Hive and trying to turn everyone into Inhumans, and Ward being almost unbeatable. How can that all be ignored? To me that is a bigger issue than this Sokovia Accords, yet its like Avengers and Agents of Shield are in two separate universes. Hell just a throw away line bout the Inhuman problem as being one of the reasons for the Sokovia Accords as the public is going nuts and scared.

Oh and Hail Hydra!

Please, it's not "would of" of "could of." That really takes me right out of a good review or an otherwise fantastic post and just locks me right up.

It's would have / would've, or could have / could've. The "of" is incorrect, and if you think about it, it doesn't fit at all.

I don't like to be a stick in the mud, and a lot of other spelling and grammatical mistakes get a pass from me online, but even marginally intelligent people should at least be able to get that one thing right.

Thanks. Carry on.

 

[Set Harth]

The only reason people on tumblr could come up with, was Howard was the one who signed the papers that gave Barnes over to Zola for experimentation, or at least he approved the funding for Zola's experiments, so maybe Hydra wanted him to see the consequences of that first hand. Howard did recognize Bucky before he was killed, I believe?

Perhaps they didn't want to entrust the delivery of the super soldier serum to a lesser lackey.