Spoilers Captain America: Civil War - Grading & Discussion

[Star Wolf]

I doubt that Hydra would have kept extensive computer records of all of their many perfidious deeds on SHIELD servers. I suspect little things like doctoring autopsy reports would have been kept off the books; more of a handshake deal.

Doing some head canon the Leviathan arm of Hydra would have had the Winter Soldier's activities somehow accounted for with the fall of the Soviet Union and seemingly many national security forces joining into an international SHIELD some blackest of ops stuff slipped through the cracks

 

[BillJ]

I saw this with the wife and my son. I gave it a 'B'. Not great, not terrible. Its' biggest flaw is that it is just more of the same. These movies all kind of bleeding together for me.

 

[Xerxes82]

I saw this with the wife and my son. I gave it a 'B'. Not great, not terrible. Its' biggest flaw is that it is just more of the same. These movies all kind of bleeding together for me.

I loved Civil War, personally, but I can totally see where this criticism comes from, and think we'll see more and more of it, over time. Even with different characters added to the mix (Panther, Spidey, the forthcoming Doctor Strange), these giant pile up movies become kind of old hat over time. CW is the third time we've seen the Avengers in action, with a whole big group of heroes using their powers, and flying about and stuff blowing up. There are only so many ways to make that visually interesting to audiences, even if you manage to keep the plots driving them fun and such. The appeal was that this has never been done before in a shared universe, but now we're getting used to it, and the standards for creativity and coherence go up.

I have faith that the Marvel Studios crowd can find some way to keep things exciting and fresh as they move forward. Infinity War (or whatever it ends up getting called in its two parts) has the draw of the long simmering threat of Thanos to get people hyped. But even then, will it come down to the Avengers vs. a massive CGI army as we've seen twice already? And after that, we'll have to see where they go moving forward.

 

[ichab]

I'll be honest, I just don't get the love this movie has received. To me it's just one mindless fight scene after another and much of it is hard to make out due to all the quick cuts. The first Avengers was great because there was an actual storyline that was allowed to grow. There was some fighting but it was small stuff until the grande finally at the end when the aliens arrived. It's getting to the point that I know longer care what happens to these characters because they've been fighting each other so many times in every movie. At this point I have no desire to see Infinity War because I know it will just be more of the same.

 

[Tosk]

I can only hope.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Some of which were heavily encrypted.

Which means what exactly to the CIA? if Zemo could decrypt them (a lone security expert from an eastern european backwater), then the intelligence agencies of the world most definitely did as well. In fact, we know they did, because if they didn't they wouldn't even know that Bucky Barnes was the Winter Soldier in the first place.

They doing so on the basis that as the Winter Solider has was a neigh unstoppable killing machine, who is connected to a major terrorist attack. Or did you forget the par where even Cap was operating on the belief he may have done it.

Connected by one blurry photograph. And his skills are all the more reason why sending police instead Avengers to bring him in was idiotic to start with. If he had still been a brainwashed assassin, and Cap (and Black Panther) had respected the accords, those policemen would all be dead now.

 

[Mr Light]

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/captain_america_civil_war/
Captain America: Civil War falls below 90% on Rotten Tomatoes; Plans for Avengers: Infinity War Now In Question
With the critical drubbing of Civil War now affecting its box office receipts, studio execs are reportedly stepping into the decision making process and overruling the Russo Brothers for Avengers Infinity War, already in pre-production. While it's reportedly too late to fire the directors from the next movie, the studio is now concerned about another repeat of the critical crucifixion their current movie is facing for its dark subject matter. The script is reportedly facing major rewrites to add more comedy and lightness to the dark tone, including changing a universe-ending threat to a zany caper in drag.

 

[Enterprise1701]

What did everyone here think of when Steve and Sharon kissed, and afterwards Sam and Bucky had big grins for Steve?

 

[Turtletrekker]

What did everyone here think of when Steve and Sharon kissed, and afterwards Sam and Bucky had big grins for Steve?

Fondue.

 

[Skywalker]

I actually didn't really feel like the kiss had been earned, like it just happened because the writers felt like it had to, but I loved Sam and Bucky's reactions.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

You mean like surviving unscathed frozen in a block of ice in the Arctic for 70 years?

He was superhuman right from the start of the films.

Thank you. Cap is a freaking superhero in a superhero film, and as you point out, Cap is the same guy who survived frozen in ice for 70 years--something no normal human would endure. He's not Batman, Daredevil or the Punisher. He is superhuman.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Maybe I'm getting old but the constant shaky-cam choppy action scenes really annoyed me. I was thankful for the airport fight because due to the scale of the fight and of Ant-Man it seemed they went easier on that stuff.

The big location titles reminded me of something you'd seen in a Tarantino or Wes Anderson movie.

If only Mrs. Stark's first name had been Martha...

It was fun seeing the usual Marvel mayhem but it's too bad they couldn't go more into the implications of the accords. With the limitations of movies it seemed like it was just about the Avengers which I imagine in the comics (which I have not read) would be more interesting in the number of superheroes that probably affected. Another thing is it seemed the pro-Accords characters didn't abide by them. We see Tony and company just act unilaterally on them without orders or oversight. Did the 117 countries ask for them to destroy an airport to detain Rogers and Co.? And of course it didn't stop anyone from going to seek revenge.

I liked Spider-Man but it seems odd that Tony would recruit some young kid for such a dangerous task. Especially after his dressing down about the innocent kid caught in the aftermath of their previous activities.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Maybe I'm getting old but the constant shaky-cam choppy action scenes really annoyed me. I was thankful for the airport fight because due to the scale of the fight and of Ant-Man it seemed they went easier on that stuff.

Yeah, the shaky cam went *way* overboard toward the beginning, but thankfully lessened later on. Giant-Man was awesome, I was grinning from ear to ear!

If only Mrs. Stark's first name had been Martha...

Her name was always Maria in the comics, IIRC...or is this a Batman v Superman joke you're making?

It was fun seeing the usual Marvel mayhem but it's too bad they couldn't go more into the implications of the accords.

Watch Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. for more on this.

I liked Spider-Man but it seems odd that Tony would recruit some young kid for such a dangerous task. Especially after his dressing down about the innocent kid caught in the aftermath of their previous activities.

I liked his portrayal fine, but he really didn't seem to have any purpose in this story as it was adapted to the screen.

 

[urbandefault]

Fondue.

'Nuff said.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Her name was always Maria in the comics, IIRC...or is this a Batman v Superman joke you're making?

Guilty.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

The reaction to the kiss was OK. Mostly, I just like the constant low-key bickering between Falcon & Bucky.

Generally, Falcon & Ant-Man got most of the best lines in the movie. Ant-Man's "orange slices" line isn't necessarily that funny in of itself but Paul Rudd's delivery is brilliant. I also like all the jokes about Ant-Man that refer to the fact that no one besides Falcon really knows who he is.
Scott Lang: "Hank Pym always said never trust a Stark."
Tony Stark: "I'm sorry, who are you again?"

The big location titles reminded me of something you'd seen in a Tarantino or Wes Anderson movie.

I was just thinking that. And since I'm a big fan of Wes Anderson's movies (especially Rushmore & The Grand Budapest Hotel), that is A-OK with me!

Now that I've seen it both ways, I think it's better to introduce the major characters in their own solo movies first and then bring them into the big crossover movies. They should have held off on Civil War until after Black Panther.

Meanwhile, Spider-Man turned out better than I thought he would. He felt a little tacked on (much like Ant-Man & Hawkeye) but at least they put some effort into establishing him. I also liked his new costume better than I thought I would, although the costume from the Sam Raimi movies is still my favorite. BTW, does Tom Holland remind anyone else of Anton Yelchin?

 

[Trekker4747]

Thank you. Cap is a freaking superhero in a superhero film, and as you point out, Cap is the same guy who survived frozen in ice for 70 years--something no normal human would endure. He's not Batman, Daredevil or the Punisher. He is superhuman.

It's just a matter of what/how much you're willing to accept when it comes to the portrayal of superpowers and superheroes. And for superheroes like Cap. they can't "break the laws of physics" which means his 200-some pound frame, practically standing on tip-toes, isn't going to prevent a helicopter with a 2000lb-plus lift capacity from lifting off. The "curl" he does to prevent it from leaving the helipad, maybe. There's enough "wiggle room" when it comes to how "super strong" he is, but he's technically not supposed to be stronger than the maximum potential for a human with maybe a bit more oomph. But I'll give him the helicopter curl but not him pulling the helicopter back to the ground.

The Hulk? Yes. He's got enough mass to overpower a helicopter's takeoff capability. Iron Man? Sure, particularly due to reverse-thrust from the suit. Superman? Sure. Again, "reverse thrust" from his ability to fly/manipulate gravity?

Steve Rogers, otherwise normal human being? Him pulling the helicopter back to the ground just strikes me as ignoring physics. Though, again, maybe there's something in the helicopter's flight dynamics that allowed for it (lift from a ground effect rather than the helicopter's own rotors) but it still strikes me as a bit silly looking.

But, again, it's me nitpicking and looking for things to pick on when it comes to the movie as there's no real, major, problems I have with it. Besides, I'm a Trek fan, nitpicking trivial things like this while accepting greater slips is part of that.

I also like all the jokes about Ant-Man that refer to the fact that no one besides Falcon really knows who he is.
Scott Lang: "Hank Pym always said never trust a Stark."
Tony Stark: "I'm sorry, who are you again?"

If Stark knew who Spider-man, operating for a few months, was then he certainly knew ho Ant-Man was who's probably been operating longer and had a much more public "debut" not to mention Tony's likely connections/dealings with Pym's company and probably even had some knowledge of Pym's work, the Pym Particle and what the CEO of the company was doing with the Yellow Jacket project.

The "Who are you again?" line was less seriously asking and more rubbing salt in AM's wounds of being an "unknown" in their circle of Superheroes and for getting himself captured.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

As far as the helicopter thing goes I figured he added just enough weight to unbalance it and to screw up its lift. Not enough that it wouldn't be able to lift off eventually but enough to make it dip until he could get a grip on something. How I rationalized it at least...

 

[Skywalker]

He's super-strong and it's a comic book movie. Don't overthink it.

 

[The Old Mixer]

As I recall, in The Incredible Hulk Returns, the lower-powered TV versions of the Hulk and Thor couldn't pull a helicopter back down to the ground working together.