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Can't Stomach Blu-Ray

For me Blu-Ray, HDTV and all related things are just a waste. I am completely content with a normal television and VHS tapes and DVDs. Never at any point have I wished for a clearer picture, I can see everything perfectly!

If you are one of the people who enjoy these things then more power to you. But for me the upgrades are just so minor and the cost is so great..not anywhere near worth it.

Call me when the holo-vids are up and running, til when I'm not buying into any of it.
 
^ So you're telling us you're watching BDs on your EDTV (720x480) and you can't really tell much of a difference between DVD and BD? Well duh!
QFT. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we might have found the problem... :vulcan:
 
^ That might come in handy, yeah. :lol:

I've had a PS3 for a while now, no Blu-Rays yet though. Too expensive for my tastes.
Yeah, all of the BluRays I own were either gifts or found in the bargain bin at bestbbuy. I think the first real BluRay purchase I'll make is Trek XI
 
The difference is huge imho, but I still watch DVDs on my system and I'm not inclined to start re-buying stuff. Anything new I'll get on bluray, but DVDs still hold up surprisingly well on a 1080p tv. The upscaler in my bluray player works rather nicely.

Although, the best reason to get an HDTV is for gaming.

humongous 27 inch
An oxymoron?

;)

While i can see the obvious difference between the two formats, I just find that i don't take any further enjoyment from the enhanced resolution...
...you're not getting the "enhanced resolution". Your BD player is downscaling stuff to standard def because your television is not HD. So aside from progressive scan, you're really not getting any benefit.
 
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^ So you're telling us you're watching BDs on your EDTV (720x480) and you can't really tell much of a difference between DVD and BD? Well duh!


LOL... I believe way above i mentioned that I was NOT going to invest in a blu-ray player. So that would imply i don't have one.

I've watched BD movies at friends and had store folks try to prove to me i should invest in a new tv \ player now.
 
They do sell flat screens that are merely digital televisions rather than HDTV, but with the cost of high def sets plummeting, it's rather senseless to buy one.
They do?

I haven't seen one (not that I'm looking). The only non-HD sets I've seen are traditional CTR's.

I'd have to say to anybody looking for a new set - you are far better off chipping in on the extra amount for HD. Even if picture quality isn't a factor for you, I can't imagine you'd be saving much by getting a standard resolution set.
 
consumers and technology

The resistance comes I think from those who found themselves the proud owners of a rapidly obsolete and very large collection of VHS tapes a decade or so ago, facing the task of replacing them all with DVDs.
The reality here, however, is that DVD isn't going anywhere, at least not for a long time.

As consumers with access to the Internet with news of technology a prototype & 1st Generation consumer product technology it is worth doing a little research to plan for audio/video/appliance purchases in the next 5-10 years.
VHS was an analog video medium that was released in the US in 1977.
The first consumer digital video tape cameras were available in 1995 (miniDV) as well as DVD players. How many years before a digital video medium would become the main releases for consumers?

Usually its best to wait until 3rd Generation of a new technology is released to consumers for the bugs to be worked out and the price to drop a lot. DVD players were released in 1995 and really took off around 2000.


Early Blu-ray players in 2003 were profile 1.0 Since then there have been two additional profiles to be able to access all of the features on a Blu-ray disc.

At the moment there is a push for 3D HD video for consumers. This may or may not become standard.
1080p HD video will be THE standard size image for television/home video viewing for the next 20 years.

Blu-ray players have really hit their stride in 2008-2009 and now prices keep coming down.
 
Re: consumers and technology

I love stumbling across different variations of this thread every few months... it's good entertainment.

Buy BD or don't, who cares? No one's going to convince someone who doesn't see the value either because a) they're blind and deaf or b) just don't care.

/THREAD
 
I have to agree that in most cases the HD just allows me to see more film grain. Most movies just weren't filmed for HD. However, the computer animated movies out there all look awesome, like "ratatouie", "meet the robinsons", "cars", etc.
 
I haven't made the HD leap yet but it is something I plan to do over the course of the next year. However, I agree with the sentiment that I'll probably not be re-buying EVERY movie on Blu-Ray, just new special effects driven movies... and the inevitable release of the Star Wars saga. I am, however, going to get rid of my cable and do AppleTV to get my TV shows.
 
Most movies just weren't filmed for HD.

I don't think that's really true. 35mm film certainly provides superior "resolution" to anything that you find on a standard DVD. When you're talking about movies that were filmed prior to the introduction of any sort of digital process, the concept of something being filmed "for HD" or not doesn't really make much sense.
 
You can't appreciate what Blu Ray can do unless you have the right screen to watch it on. When I made the jump and picked up a plasma screen, the increase in quality was much more noticeable. LCD/Plasma prices are coming down and so is the prices of Blu Ray discs. According to thedigitalbits.com, We should see brand name players go under $200 this Christmas. Blu Ray will be here for a while and I am looking forward to it.

Hah, my parents got a player for something like $115 last Christmas. And I got one for about $110.

Yep. There's a Magnavox for $168 at Walmart here, and right next to it a Phillips for $198. The Phillips has everything and the kitchen sink, and looks gorgeous. I only have a 22" HDTV but in our living room is a 42" HDTV and it would make a world of difference on that one.

J.
 
Blu-Ray and film grain reproduction

in most cases the HD just allows me to see more film grain. Most movies just weren't filmed for HD.

I will please ask you to read this editorial in full regarding feature films in high definition video on Blu-ray:

Finally today, I wanted to say a few things about the whole grain reduction issue. There's been a lot of talk on the subject lately here at The Bits and on various forums around the Net. And certainly, since the whole Patton/Longest Day controversy last year, it's been a real issue of concern for some Blu-ray fans. So I thought it might be a good time to try and introduce a little common sense on the subject. Let's give it the old college try, shall we? Here goes...

A Few Words (of Common Sense) About Grain Reduction on Blu-ray

First of all, I've heard from some in the home video industry that the issue of grain reduction is really just "a matter of taste" - that some consumers want grain while others want none of it. And I'm hear to tell you that, no..., it's NOT a matter of taste. The physical, photochemical film process, which has dominated filmmaking for close to a century now, has certain characteristics that define its look. One of those is the presence of grain in the image. Now, the amount of grain visible in the image depends on many factors: the type of film stock used, various camera settings, the age of the negatives and surviving prints, etc. But the bottom line is that a certain amount of grain in the image is one of the very things that make film LOOK LIKE FILM. Saying that it's a matter of taste is like saying that whether or not to colorize a black and white film image is a matter of taste. Sure, there might be some consumers who don't care or even like colorized film, but I think most film enthusiasts would agree, it's just not appropriate. The whole goal of a Blu-ray presentation should be to recreate, as well as possible, the best original theatrical experience of a film in the home. If that film was a digital presentation, shot natively on HD video, then you wouldn't expect there to be grain. If it's a CG-animated production, you likewise don't expect grain. But when it's a vintage catalog title, shot on photochemical film, you expect it to LOOK like photochemical film. In other words, you EXPECT SOME GRAIN. People who say that film grain is "a matter of taste" tend to fall into two camps: studio marketing folk who don't really understand film and younger consumers (generally under the age of 30), most of whom have NEVER seen their favorite films in a theatre, but rather grew up watching them on DVD. To both groups I say: You need to go out and educate yourselves. That grain isn't "noise". Some of it is supposed to be there.

Now as a friend who works in mastering recently told me, some grain/noise reduction is ALWAYS done on digital, high-definition masters. That's just the nature of the process. Some films need grain reduction due to serious age issues or the fact that occasionally individual reels or shots have more grain than the rest of the film, and there's a need to make the presentation more uniform looking so those shots/reels don't stand out. Grain reduction is a legitimate tool of digital mastering. The issue is not grain reduction per se, but the EXCESSIVE use of it. Here's the problem when grain reduction is excessive: Very often, you're not just stripping out film grain... you're stripping out ALL KINDS of fine image detail. Like fabric textures, facial pores, rain drops, the leaves on trees, etc. That goes against the whole point of the added resolution of high-definition. The result is that backgrounds start looking static and character's faces start looking like they're molded out of clay. That's a problem, and it should be a problem for any serious fan of film. You want to see examples of really serious grain reduction offenders on catalog Blu-ray films? Go look at Fox's aforementioned Patton and The Longest Day. Now compare them to examples of great, exceptionally film-like catalog transfers, like Fox's South Pacific or MGM's The Battle of Britain, and Criterion's Chunking Express - or almost ANY title from Criterion for that matter. There is a REAL difference, and those of you who dismiss this issue owe it to yourselves to investigate and educate yourselves.

One of the things I do when evaluating the quality of a Blu-ray image of an older film, is to look specifically at the grain structure. I usually search for a scene with a bright background - sky, a blank wall, etc. I pause the image, and then move forward a frame at a time. You SHOULD be able to see the grain structure very slightly changing from frame to frame as you step forward. If I can see this, I next look at the overall level of image detail - it's almost always exceptional. On the other hand, if I can't see any grain at all, when I start looking for image detail, I almost always find that it's been substantially reduced, such that the image looks unnaturally soft. And that's a problem.

ON THE OTHER HAND... those of us who are Blu-ray and high-definition enthusiasts DO have to be a little more understanding of some of the difficulties faced by the studios as they work to deliver the best possible image quality on the format. Here's what I mean by that...

I'd ask you enthusiasts to think back to the early days of DVD. You might remember that when the studios started doing a lot of anamorphic transfers, a lot of mastering techs were still using too much edge-enhancement - something they'd been doing with analog video (and rightly so) for years. But when DVD started really exploding, it took some of them a little time to realize they had to dial the use of edge-enhancement back. The same is true today of DNR. I'm guessing excessive grain reduction was the norm with DVD transfers (even in HD) for years, but it just wasn't an issue then because DVD didn't have the resolution to really show that. Now that Blu-ray DOES, these mastering guys are having to adjust, and that's a slow and uneven process. This is one of the big reasons that the studios are discovering that HD transfers done even just a couple years ago aren't up to the standards of Blu-ray release, and have to be redone. I'd bet in a year or so, this will be a non-issue - except in cases where studios make difficult financial decision to just reuse older "off-the-shelf" HD transfers. But my feeling is that for MOST of the new transfers done today, these guys have learned to be more careful about the excessive use of DNR.

We enthusiasts all want "perfect" every time, but looking back, some of those early DVD transfers were terrible by the standards of quality even just a few years later. What is state of the art in terms of quality changes and improves over time with each new format. That's just how things work. The Blu-ray transfers we see in a few years will make many of today's discs look paltry by comparison. But we shouldn't let that prevent us from enjoying the improvements we already see. We should still hold the industry's feet to the fire on these issues, but we should also try keep things in perspective and not let some of these issues become the ONLY thing we talk about or care about or take into consideration.

So yes, excessive grain reduction is a real issue here with high-definition. And the industry needs to be aware of it, and try to improve - which (by and large) I think they are. But you Blu-ray fans need to keep all this in perspective too. Just because a little too much grain reduction has been used on a particular title, that ALONE shouldn't be reason enough for most of you to dismiss the title completely. Consider the extras, the audio improvements, the degree to which the image - even with too much DNR - is improved over the previous DVD release.

Bottom line: Everyone need to educate themselves, to keep things in perspective and to apply a little more common sense to the issue of grain reduction on Blu-ray. Cool? Okay. Enough said.
5-18-2009
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa168.html#afewwords
 
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I'm not a fan of all this "OMG HD LOL ITS VIDEO IN RESOLUTIONS THAT AREN'T AMAZINGLY HIGH BUT ITS CALLED 'HI DEF' SO IT MUST BE REVOLUTIONARY" stuff, it's not that big of a deal. The only thing "shiny" and "new" about HD are the BDs used to store data on, but they're not really as impressive (or new) as some people think they are, infact consumer BD players came out in 2003 (albeit at ridiculous prices). Though, the display technology isn't impressive at all, computer monitors have been delivering those resolutions for years, and unlike CRTs, blowing the size of a LCD/plasma display up isn't really that impressive, nor is the resolution. Sure the price tag might go up but the technology isn't impressive.

However, I'll probably be making the leap to BluRay this year, though there's not much out on BD I like that I don't already own on DVD, but I guess I'll just watch DVDs on my player for upscaling and buy anything new on BD. We've had an HDTV in our living room for over a year that we haven't really taken advantage of yet, and I need a new TV for my room which will probably end up being an HDTV because they're so widely available and I'll probably be getting a BD player for my room too, seeing as I'll be watching it from <2 metres where the difference between DVD and BD quality will be very noticable.

I don't think DVD is going anywhere for a long time though, it's not like the transition from VHS/LD to DVD where the formats wouldn't even fit in the same player. I'm sure people will be spinning their DVDs for years to come before replacing them, whether it's in their "old" DVD players, or in their BD players. I don't intend on replacing any of my DVDs (with a few exceptions admittedly, I'll probably buy the TOS-R BDs seeing as I don't have any copies of TOS-R yet, and there's a few movies I'd like to replace with BDs) until they become worn out and no longer play.
 
Don't understand how people can say they hardly notice the difference between a DVD and a HiDef format.

Watching Planet Earth on DVD is like watching a movie about planet earth.

Watching Planet Earth in high definition is almost like looking out a window. A lot of it depends on the source of the material and how it was transferred into the format. Older movies are really hit more miss in this regard.

But I do agree that the difference (for most people) between Blue Ray and DVD is smaller than VHS and DVD or audio cassettes and CDs. It's more evolutionary than revolutionary.
 
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