Spoilers Canon, Continuity, and Pike's Accident

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Strange New Worlds' started by CorporalCaptain, May 19, 2023.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It was a different 1967. They had nuclear launch platforms in orbit and things were real bad.
     
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  2. Dar70

    Dar70 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't see your point.
     
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  3. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

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    Nah, that wasn't until 1968
    Do the math.
     
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  4. Dar70

    Dar70 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't see what point you are trying to make. Why is it silly setting the EW in 1992?.
     
  5. Markonian

    Markonian Fleet Admiral Moderator

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    Khan fled Earth in 1996 in the prime of his life. Assuming he was about 30 when the Eugenics Wars started in 1992, it would mean Humans successfully bred genetically-augmented experiments by the 1960s. At a time when the Trabant was the peak of car engineering, when Humans hadn't been to Luna yet!
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2023
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  6. Dar70

    Dar70 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I still don't see the point......didn't Picard establish it as secret at the time??
     
  7. Serveaux

    Serveaux Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    The entire eugenics project to produce him would have to have reached fruition in the late 1940s or 1950s. Anyone who had given it a few minutes thought in 1967 would have recognized that as ridiculous all by itself.

    What has that got to do with anything at all?

    The Trek people really wanted their stuff to sound fairly plausible, in those days.


    Likely the only reason that the EW were set as close to our time as they were was that the central conceit that the writer pitched to Trek about "Harold Erickson" was of what a dangerous atavism a man of "our era" might be, several centuries hence.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2023
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  8. Dar70

    Dar70 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe it did in the world of Star Trek.
     
  9. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

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    Too close the modern/current era. The Eugenics program would have to be in full swing in the early 1960s.
    Pretty big maybe.
     
  10. Dar70

    Dar70 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's scifi. So i don't see the problem. The MCU does this stuff all the time. Audiences accept it.
     
  11. David cgc

    David cgc Admiral Premium Member

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    I've seen it suggested that, given "Space Seed" exclusively talks about "selective breeding" (Khan being genetically engineered was a retcon in TWOK), the original idea was that Khan and his comrades were the result of a project dating back to the mid-19th century when the concept of eugenics and applying principles from agriculture and animal husbandry to humans first came around, giving enough time for four or five generations of the best of the best being chosen to iteratively bump uglies.

    Is that enough to plausibly result in a man that could crush a pistol in his bare hands? I don't know. That experiment with the domesticated foxes suggested you could start getting friendly pets only six generations after starting from wild animals.
     
  12. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

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    Did it? We see Arik Soong looking at a report from 1996 called "Project Khan".
    [​IMG]
    Which would place it several years after the Eugenics War and after Khan left Earth, so it doesn't quite line up with "Space Seed". As it's a funding report the Project hadn't begun yet. So it works better with the new dates established in SNW.
    That's not a good excuse. In fact, it's the worst excuse.
    Also, Star Trek isn't the MCU.
     
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  13. Tallguy

    Tallguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't think people would have thought that was out of the realm of possibility. There were rumors of former Nazis still running around (true) continuing whatever diabolical experiments (presumably not true).

    I mean, Khan is just an extrapolation of The Boys from Brazil and its ilk.

    Heck, there were probably some people in 1967 thinking "Wow! We're going to make it the NINETIES! I would never have expected!"
     
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  14. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That much is certain.

    Well, maybe. The Boys from Brazil itself, by Ira Levin, dates from 1976.
     
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  15. Tallguy

    Tallguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Right. I'm not a fan of such conspiracy theories in general so I just threw out the one I knew. They also found Eichmann in 1960. So I knew I was throwing out approximations.
     
  16. Dar70

    Dar70 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Not using it as an excuse. But as an example. Because it doesn't need one. Star Trek doesn't have to follow real world events or what our actual past is. We won't be leaving this solar system in starships in 2151 either. But it's there in Star Trek Enterprise. I really don't see the problem.

    I never saw it as an issue and still do not and never will ....
     
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  17. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

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  18. Dar70

    Dar70 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Actually 2063 is only 40 years away. We better move the timeline up another hundred in star trek to account for the impending discrepancy. Oh wait the bell riots are supposed to be happening next year....uh oh ...time for another time travel episode to change it to 2094
     
  19. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

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    "It's just scifi" is a horrible excuse for bad ill thought out ideas.
    2151 is still a long way from 2001.
    1967 to 1992, not so much.
    "Predicting" the future works better with distance.
     
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  20. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

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    Yes we should. Because at the end of the day it's fiction not history.
    The SNW episode will suffice for any future changes. It is now "baked in".
     
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