Spoilers Blade Runner 2049 - Grading and Discussion
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One thing that occurred to me in the brief moment of uncanny disgust when they brought out Sean Young's CG double was that it might have been an interesting opportunity to use the uncanny valley in a way that could actually benefit a film. Probably not for this film in particular, but a future film with a similar role for human simulacra. Having a bunch of not-quite-real performances in the cast could depict that not-quite-human quality without having to say a thing about it.
Aside from the cop that hurled the "skinjob" insult at K and the vandalism of his apartment door, what other instance was there of a human noting a replicant? In both those cases, it was publicly known that replicants were used as Blade Runners to hunt down their own.
As JD pointed out, Mariette was a replicant as were all of the hookers we see in that scene.
As much as I love Olmos and Gaff, I actually preferred him serving in a cameo role. He didn't have much of a role in the first film and his presence is part of the lingering connection to the past, but not something that's overtly present until we see Deckard again. Works much better that way, at least for me.
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Just saw it for a second time this evening, this round in IMAX & 3D. Think I enjoyed it even more this time tbh, I'm even comtemplating a third time, which for me is incredibly rare.
I'm not sure if the theatre I was in had a better sound system, but the level of sound during the climatic scene in the water were amaaaaazing
I'm not sure if the theatre I was in had a better sound system, but the level of sound during the climatic scene in the water were amaaaaazing
I suppose if anyone was curious, they could just ask. If they were really curious, they could ask them to look up and to the left to see the serial number on their right eye.
I loved that Gaff was still as much of a cypher as he was originally. Laughing at a joke only he sees. Still no idea why he let Deckard and Rachel go. Not a clue why he made the little joke that Deckard was "retired."
Which reminds me, I'm pretty sure the "horse" was actually a unicorn with a broken horn.
For Mariette and the other prostitutes, I thought Mariette had at one point said that K wasn't into 'real girls' (which I assumed she meant herself) instead of Joi. But perhaps I heard that wrong or that it's open to interpretation. It makes more sense for Mariette to be a replicant if she is working with Freysa (sp) and knew Morton than to be a human in league with them. Then again, if she is human that also opens up the possibilities for a wider and potentially growing revolt. It's not like humans are faring super well on Earth either and some like Mariette might find themselves identifying with 'disposable' people like replicants.
As for humans knowing about replicants, granted we don't see much of a general knowledge outside of human or replicant Blade Runners and other corporate or government officials that should be in the know, however, when you add the 2049 prequel info into the mix, while Morton was able to assimilate quite easily into human society, there were also human supremacists hunting down replicants at one point (granted they did access the replicant registry). Which raises another question of why would replicants, or so many replicants, be on earth before the 2022 black out to warrant needing a registry? As I was watching 2049 it just felt like the replicants were not made distinct enough from regular humans to facilitate identifying them in case one of them malfunctioned or went rogue and that doesn't make much sense to me if they wanted to maintain strict control over the replicants.
As for Gaff, I think having him as the mentor for K would've been more interesting. It provides more of that continuity to the first film, and his death at the hands of Luv would've had more resonance than Robin Wright's in part due to that history from the first film. Plus he strikes me as a this mysterious character, someone who knows a lot more than he's saying and it would've been interesting to see him perhaps provide more clues or play headgames with K. I liked Wright pretty well, but for a sequel I would've rather had Gaff in the captain/mentor role.
As for humans knowing about replicants, granted we don't see much of a general knowledge outside of human or replicant Blade Runners and other corporate or government officials that should be in the know, however, when you add the 2049 prequel info into the mix, while Morton was able to assimilate quite easily into human society, there were also human supremacists hunting down replicants at one point (granted they did access the replicant registry). Which raises another question of why would replicants, or so many replicants, be on earth before the 2022 black out to warrant needing a registry? As I was watching 2049 it just felt like the replicants were not made distinct enough from regular humans to facilitate identifying them in case one of them malfunctioned or went rogue and that doesn't make much sense to me if they wanted to maintain strict control over the replicants.
As for Gaff, I think having him as the mentor for K would've been more interesting. It provides more of that continuity to the first film, and his death at the hands of Luv would've had more resonance than Robin Wright's in part due to that history from the first film. Plus he strikes me as a this mysterious character, someone who knows a lot more than he's saying and it would've been interesting to see him perhaps provide more clues or play headgames with K. I liked Wright pretty well, but for a sequel I would've rather had Gaff in the captain/mentor role.
Yes, I saw that they were bioengineered but the language from the first film and repeated here, 'skinjob' and sometimes how they are described and treated makes the replicants seem more than flesh and blood, perhaps it's a nod to the novel.
It also makes me wonder if each replicant is uniquely crafted. They talk about models but we haven't seen a "K" line for example, where there are multiple Ks (ex. like the BSG human Cylons).
It also makes me wonder why Tyrell or Wallace can't just genetically engineer hardier humans, especially Wallace Corporation, at this point.
It was.
I don't know, I have a hard time imagining the strange and kooky Gaff being any kind of mentor figure to K, or the captain in charge of the entire police force. Although I agree with others that it definitely would have been cool to see more of him than we did.
The sequel to the first Blade Runner movie, based on Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, by Phillip K. Dick. As a sequel, it works. It tackles the same kind of questions of identity that the first film does. (I haven't read the novel, so I can't compare it to that apparently seminal work.) The character of K (or “Joe”) is an interesting protagonist. He isn't a blank slate. He has a backstory, or thinks he does, and that plays a major role in this story. He has curiosity, and that also contributes to to the story.
(Of course, curiosity would be essential for any Blade Running Replicant...) Then there is his holographic AI companion, JOI, who gives him his name. She also shows some development over the course of the story. (But does she, that is a question, whether she is as real as the humans and replicants or not.) Then there is Deckard, who appears towards the end of the film, with more question of who is real or not. As good as the first one. 8.3/10.
(Of course, curiosity would be essential for any Blade Running Replicant...) Then there is his holographic AI companion, JOI, who gives him his name. She also shows some development over the course of the story. (But does she, that is a question, whether she is as real as the humans and replicants or not.) Then there is Deckard, who appears towards the end of the film, with more question of who is real or not. As good as the first one. 8.3/10.
Except that the most critical part of the character's story might not work as well with Gaff as it does with Joshi. Joshi sometimes forgets that K is even a replicant, and has a respectful working relationship with him. She almost admires his service at times, and even comes onto him when she has the chance at his place. She almost, but not quite, sees him as human.
And, critically, she helps him escape the LAPD when his baseline test goes to hell because he's all jumbled up and emotional.
Gaff could have served to perform some of that functionality, perhaps. But wouldn't it be awfully convenient for a cop who worked with Deckard to also be involved with K? And even more so that the same cop that let Deckard and Rachel escaped then did the same when K needed to run? You not only have to weigh nostalgia for the audience but their ability to suspend disbelief. At what point does small world syndrome kick in?
I think the new character served the narrative function than the old one could have.
You heard right. But she meant the line more in context of "You can't handle a real relationship, only one you can program." Think of it as an insult to cover the fact that he has rejected her advances. (Advances which may not have been completely self-serving on her part, there is indication later in the film that Mariette may be attracted to K. As almost every female character in the movie seemed to be. Oh, to be Ryan Gosling.
)Keep in mind as well that, to Mariette, she is very much a "real girl." Replicants are as human as you or I, just built instead of born. Or at least, that is what the members of the resistance see to believe.
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I honestly didn't care for it, despite wanting to, but having a sneaking suspicion it might not deliver. There was a lot of things here that didn't play well off each other, chiefly a deafening & grating overindulgent soundtrack, which only serviced the film in that it would be unwatchable without one. I needed to plug my ears numerous times. Maybe I'm just old now.
Unlike the characters in the original, I found none of them engaging at all (lots of forgettable actors & performances) Lennie James, who I normally love, is just a blip, & Jared Leto isn't much more. Harrison Ford picked the picture up some when he finally showed up, but it was literally too little, overblown, & WAY too late. He's really just a supporting character that they built up far too long. Basically he ends up being the football. Robin Wright has more screen time I'm betting, & wasn't all that engaging for it either
Frankly, there also just isn't enough story here to fill all this run time. It's not a bad story, but it's pretty thin. I don't mind a 3 hour movie at all. I count several on this list as some of my favorites. Just let there be a reason. Don't take a 90 minute concept & pace it out over 160.
Seriously, replicant hunting replicants stumbles onto a plot that leads him to think he's the 1st child born of replicants, and thereby must scramble to both learn & yet hide the truth. Throw in a very uninspired AI romance, some cameos, a fairly pedestrian twist, & that's it. That's the whole movie. The rest is just drawing out an attempt at a self discovery theme, which was imho very poorly delivered by Gosling
It's a pretty movie. The man is clearly a cinematic visionary, but the story doesn't give me enough, & Ryan Gosling just relentlessly drowns the whole thing with his presence. I was already bored with him by the time we meet his arbitrary girlfriend (Who I've already forgotten. The escort replicant was a more memorable actress... slightly) I don't normally call a movie boring, unless parts of it (Like Gosling) go out of their way to make it that way. I gave it a C-. I inadvertently ended up showing up for a 3D viewing too, which was a pretty big waste. It added nothing
Unlike the characters in the original, I found none of them engaging at all (lots of forgettable actors & performances) Lennie James, who I normally love, is just a blip, & Jared Leto isn't much more. Harrison Ford picked the picture up some when he finally showed up, but it was literally too little, overblown, & WAY too late. He's really just a supporting character that they built up far too long. Basically he ends up being the football. Robin Wright has more screen time I'm betting, & wasn't all that engaging for it either
Frankly, there also just isn't enough story here to fill all this run time. It's not a bad story, but it's pretty thin. I don't mind a 3 hour movie at all. I count several on this list as some of my favorites. Just let there be a reason. Don't take a 90 minute concept & pace it out over 160.
Seriously, replicant hunting replicants stumbles onto a plot that leads him to think he's the 1st child born of replicants, and thereby must scramble to both learn & yet hide the truth. Throw in a very uninspired AI romance, some cameos, a fairly pedestrian twist, & that's it. That's the whole movie. The rest is just drawing out an attempt at a self discovery theme, which was imho very poorly delivered by Gosling
It's a pretty movie. The man is clearly a cinematic visionary, but the story doesn't give me enough, & Ryan Gosling just relentlessly drowns the whole thing with his presence. I was already bored with him by the time we meet his arbitrary girlfriend (Who I've already forgotten. The escort replicant was a more memorable actress... slightly) I don't normally call a movie boring, unless parts of it (Like Gosling) go out of their way to make it that way. I gave it a C-. I inadvertently ended up showing up for a 3D viewing too, which was a pretty big waste. It added nothing
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Xerxes 82,
Having Gaff in the Joshi role very much invites small universe syndrome. For me, that's not a deal breaker. His placement would be very convenient, though this film also put out there that Deckard himself might have been programmed or manipulated into meeting and falling for Rachael to begin with, so there's already some convenience here. As is the idea that it would be K who would be given this assignment, one of the few, if only replicants, with the right false implanted memories to move the story along and that gave him more of a stake in what happened.
I'm not sure that Joshi ever forgot K was a replicant. I do think her feelings for him blurred, with the help (or excuse) of alcohol. On some level I believed she did care for him. Though all of that, even the sexual advance, could've been kept with Gaff truth be told. And the idea of Gaff being there and watching K, perhaps because he either believes him to be the real deal or the fake messiah, he could've been guiding and or protecting either K or the memory maker.
So with Gaff as captain perhaps it could go out of the realm of convenience so much as Gaff, Deckard, and the other resistance replicants perhaps have worked out some agreement. And Gaff sending K on the assignment in particular could've been more purposeful.
With Wright, I would've rather had her in the Wallace role. Leto would've worked better as a replicant or blade runner to me.
Good point about Mariette considering herself a 'real girl', because I hadn't considered that. That being said, I'm not so sure she was referring to a 'real relationship' because she is a sex worker so the idea that she's coming on to him, like a customer and then is knocking him for not wanting a real relationship is a stretch to me. Though it could be a case of that her attraction to K, beyond her mission, has already started and she was testing the waters.
Having Gaff in the Joshi role very much invites small universe syndrome. For me, that's not a deal breaker. His placement would be very convenient, though this film also put out there that Deckard himself might have been programmed or manipulated into meeting and falling for Rachael to begin with, so there's already some convenience here. As is the idea that it would be K who would be given this assignment, one of the few, if only replicants, with the right false implanted memories to move the story along and that gave him more of a stake in what happened.
I'm not sure that Joshi ever forgot K was a replicant. I do think her feelings for him blurred, with the help (or excuse) of alcohol. On some level I believed she did care for him. Though all of that, even the sexual advance, could've been kept with Gaff truth be told. And the idea of Gaff being there and watching K, perhaps because he either believes him to be the real deal or the fake messiah, he could've been guiding and or protecting either K or the memory maker.
So with Gaff as captain perhaps it could go out of the realm of convenience so much as Gaff, Deckard, and the other resistance replicants perhaps have worked out some agreement. And Gaff sending K on the assignment in particular could've been more purposeful.
With Wright, I would've rather had her in the Wallace role. Leto would've worked better as a replicant or blade runner to me.
Good point about Mariette considering herself a 'real girl', because I hadn't considered that. That being said, I'm not so sure she was referring to a 'real relationship' because she is a sex worker so the idea that she's coming on to him, like a customer and then is knocking him for not wanting a real relationship is a stretch to me. Though it could be a case of that her attraction to K, beyond her mission, has already started and she was testing the waters.
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Watched the movie a second time, and while there's still a lot to admire in it (and I found myself even more impressed by the performance the henchwoman actress gave), it's nowhere near the level of the original in my mind. Just not enough story for the long running time, the visuals and score are missing that extra oomph that Ridley and Vangelis provided, and K's story just never seems as interesting as Deckard's was in the original, as this man struggling with having to kill beings that seem so human, while he may or may not be a Replicant himself.
Second Friday of the movie's release is am even bigger disaster than expected. This movie will be a genre and career killer folks! Don't expect to see another high budget prestige sci fi flick for at least 30 years! And the director might never see another script again either... though the good reviews might keep his career in life support through the indie arthouse circuit.
Overall this is just incredibly sad.
Overall this is just incredibly sad.
Not sure if serious...
The movie is both critically acclaimed and highly rated from audiences, and the director has two projects already lined up, one of them a high budget prestige sci-fi flick. Yeah it sucks more people didn't show up for it, but if anything being associated with this movie can only help the careers of the people involved.
Movies fail, happens all the time. Often it has nothing to do with the quality of the film and comes down to a miscalculation in how much to spend on production, how to market it, and when to release it. Andrew Stanton isn't going to get 200 million to make a live action film again, but his career certainly isn't over. Neither is Guy Richie's or a dozens other directors who made big-budget bombs. Some of the actors may see a dip in their future paychecks and prospects but there aren't many names in the cast who are at risk of disappearing from screens any time soon.
I was just thinking about this, but the miracle birth thing is a trope, is it not? The most recent example I can think of is the crystal gem Rose giving birth to Steven in Steven Universe. In both cases the mother dies during childbirth and it's implied that the "power of love" made it happen. For such a bleak vision of the future, a little storybook schmaltz like that is sort of a saving grace.
The problem is Steven Universe is a series and this is a standalone movie.
I'm really surprised nobody has mentioend the loose ends and this feeling that you're seeing the first of two halves that lowers your ratings, because that's my feeling. The film really ends at a midpoint. Sure, K is dead, but he's effectively passed the baton of the story back to Deckard and the daughter. Wallace and the rebels just sort of disappear by the end of the story. I feel the film's quality would be perceived much higher if they wrapped up the loose ends in a followup, similar to how Kill Bill Vol. 1 feels like a better movie after you've seen Vol. 2.
One can guess that in a sequel the rebels would rise up and you'd get sort of a new-Planet of the Apes sort of a film (thematically, quite similar).
We've all seen rebel uprising films though and that isn't the story this film is telling. The audience can intuit what likely happens next without needing to rush the rest of the story so they can put it in the third act or make a whole film telling the obvious war story.
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