It was a childhood favorite and Linc was my favorite character.
Spoilers Black Panther Wakanda Forever
- Thread starter Turtletrekker
- Start date
Not that that's going to stop somebody (JJ Jameson? Val? Some CIA flunky?) from calling their capitol city 'Atlantis' (and the name sticking) once the surface world does finally catch on to their existence, to the Talokan's eternal annoyance.
Really enjoyed this one.
The way they handled Chadwick Boseman and T'Challa's death was perfect.
Some really fantastic performances in this one, especially from Angela Bassett, Letitia Wright, and Tenoch Huerta Mejia.
I really liked what they did with Namor and Talokan, I know it was very different from the comics, but I honestly this a lot more interesting than a more comics accurate version.
Riri Williams was pretty cool, and I'm looking forward to her Disney+ series.
I hadn't heard that Julia Louis-Dreyfus, so it caught me by surprise when she showed up. Did we know before this that Fontaine was the director of the CIA?
Ramonda's death was a huge shock.
As much as I might have issues with Letitia Wright as a person, going by this movie alone, I would have no problem with her continuing as the new Black Panther.
The way they handled Chadwick Boseman and T'Challa's death was perfect.
Some really fantastic performances in this one, especially from Angela Bassett, Letitia Wright, and Tenoch Huerta Mejia.
I really liked what they did with Namor and Talokan, I know it was very different from the comics, but I honestly this a lot more interesting than a more comics accurate version.
Riri Williams was pretty cool, and I'm looking forward to her Disney+ series.
I hadn't heard that Julia Louis-Dreyfus, so it caught me by surprise when she showed up. Did we know before this that Fontaine was the director of the CIA?
Ramonda's death was a huge shock.
As much as I might have issues with Letitia Wright as a person, going by this movie alone, I would have no problem with her continuing as the new Black Panther.
I don't remember hearing either of those earlier either so, a surprise to me too.
Yeah, up until now Val was a complete enigma. We knew she had some sort of pull in the government, but her exact role hadn't been defined. IIRC, in the comics she was actually Nick Fury's ex-wife, which now they seem to have made her Everett Ross's instead.
Then again, I guess there's no reason Ross and Fury can't both be ex-husbands of hers.
Then again, I guess there's no reason Ross and Fury can't both be ex-husbands of hers.
Just returned and i have to say it's a solid middle when it comes to Marvel movies, it didn't blow me away like Endgame or No Way Home but it can be watched.
The movie never managed to overcome the lacking presence of Boseman, he just made that character, hero and movie his own and there is obviously no replacing him and the movie didn't try for obvious reasons. The story itself was serviceable but no real standout - another unique culture and advanced tech ( or rather advanced biology?), an antihero who wants to protect his people by getting back at those who have killed his people in the past ( far too close to Killmonger in motivation) and the Wakandan characters, especially Shuri, constantly mourning throughout the movie with few pauses.
The Good:
- the first 5 minutes with T'Challa's offscreen death was really emotional, Letitia Wright really sold it. And then the Marvel Logo but only with T'Challa's face and short clips from BP1 (all without music) - that really surprised me and was a genius idea.
- M'Baku is just plain awesome as adviser in calmer moments and as a frontline warrior and on occasion comical relief.
- Shuri's entrance as the new Black Panther and M'Baku immediately testing her was just f'in awesome - the music, the scene itself. Brilliant
- Danai Gurira is a top notch actress - she sometimes overacts the role but when it counts she really nails her emotions
- Michael B. Jordan becoming Killmonger again for an awesome cameo and he looked fantastic
- just seeing Chadwick in flashback scenes at the end made me sad - what could have been
The Bad
- Shuri as Black Panther just doesn't work. No offense to Wright but she has an extremely slender frame and although she took the Panther herb she's still a leaf in the wind. Her fighting scenes were just not believable, especially when she went up against Namor ( even though he was weakened at the end)
- really hate the design of Riri's armor and that special armor Shuri made for Okoye - especially that armor looked really dumb
- what's the point of the end credits scene? T'Challa's son looks like he's 6 - will he be just a target for the villain and has to be rescued or is Marvel planning a big timejump. That scene also fell really flat for me.
The movie never managed to overcome the lacking presence of Boseman, he just made that character, hero and movie his own and there is obviously no replacing him and the movie didn't try for obvious reasons. The story itself was serviceable but no real standout - another unique culture and advanced tech ( or rather advanced biology?), an antihero who wants to protect his people by getting back at those who have killed his people in the past ( far too close to Killmonger in motivation) and the Wakandan characters, especially Shuri, constantly mourning throughout the movie with few pauses.
The Good:
- the first 5 minutes with T'Challa's offscreen death was really emotional, Letitia Wright really sold it. And then the Marvel Logo but only with T'Challa's face and short clips from BP1 (all without music) - that really surprised me and was a genius idea.
- M'Baku is just plain awesome as adviser in calmer moments and as a frontline warrior and on occasion comical relief.
- Shuri's entrance as the new Black Panther and M'Baku immediately testing her was just f'in awesome - the music, the scene itself. Brilliant
- Danai Gurira is a top notch actress - she sometimes overacts the role but when it counts she really nails her emotions
- Michael B. Jordan becoming Killmonger again for an awesome cameo and he looked fantastic
- just seeing Chadwick in flashback scenes at the end made me sad - what could have been
The Bad
- Shuri as Black Panther just doesn't work. No offense to Wright but she has an extremely slender frame and although she took the Panther herb she's still a leaf in the wind. Her fighting scenes were just not believable, especially when she went up against Namor ( even though he was weakened at the end)
- really hate the design of Riri's armor and that special armor Shuri made for Okoye - especially that armor looked really dumb
- what's the point of the end credits scene? T'Challa's son looks like he's 6 - will he be just a target for the villain and has to be rescued or is Marvel planning a big timejump. That scene also fell really flat for me.
Would it be fair to say this origin of Namor is unique for the Marvel film universe? My comic knowledge of him is rather limited, and I agree that for movie purposes it was very well done.
My only nitpick in terms of his writing is I felt the movie did a great bit of worldbuilding in having Namor show Shuri his undersea empire and try to genuinely persuade her why an alliance would benefit both realms, because they share many qualities that isolate them from the surface world. Wakanda had a similar crisis in the earlier movies, when T'Challa had to balance the knowledge of how Wakandan resources could benefit the larger world (while also potentially making it easier for that world to see Wakanda as an ally) with the risks of those advantages also being abused, if only out of fear or good intentions that misfired. And it's a nice parallel to Shuri having to struggle with her own rage against the human world, the part of her that wants revenge even if it's the wrong path.
But when Namor later meets with Ramonda, he doesn't share any of that expanded context or try to persuade her the same way. He just blatantly threatens Wakanda and even the possibility of harming Shuri, who is potential leverage as well as perhaps a future ally. He's clearly smart enough to understand that Wakanda could be a more serious threat as an enemy than other nations, as well as a powerful ally, but this just seems a bit odd.
Also, was it ever explained how Namor and his people were able to avoid detection during their incursions into Wakanda? I do recall during his initial appearance, he somehow evaded all forms of detection rather conveniently.
Overall, I enjoyed the film. I'd definitely say it's one of the darker, more mature chapters in the Marvel film universe but not in a bad way.
Comic origin is Sailor meets mermaid. They fall in love. She goes back to Atlantis and gives birth to their son. Surface dwellers bomb the city and they swear vengeance on the surface world and Namor is their instrument.
I liked both of those, although I was a little surprised they didn't end the movie with Riri and Shuri designing something closer to her Ironheart armor.
Not YET. But once they knew it - and, far more importantly, the vibranium - was there... just like that raid on that Wakandan outreach center at the beginning, they would never stop coming. Underwater nukes, bunker busters, Sentinels (once they get built) - whatever it took they'd use. In his eyes, it was the Conquistadors vs the Mayans all over again. He was out to stop the problem before it became one.
That was a good ass movie! Shuri as the new Black Panther was narratively very fitting (if not obvious) and the way they got her character there was done really well I'd say. Her non-processing of her grief, near-fall to the dark side, and then the climax of her arc as a parallel to her brother's previous virtues...all done REALLY well. My only gripe is that I really loved Leticia Wright as the snarky supporting sister character, but wasn't really sold on her as the suited action hero, unfortunately. I might feel this way specifically because Angela Bassett is absolutely fantastic in this movie, and after walking out of the theater I couldn't help but feel if they had thrown a curve ball with this movie and made her the next Black Panther, this would have been a solid 20/10. I'm also not a fan of antivaxxers getting to be a role mode of science.
Apparently the tone of the movie didn't change much after Chadwick died, it was always going to be about grief, except it was about the 5 years T'Challa lost while blipped.
https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/black-panther-wakanda-forever-ryan-coogler-interview
And Namor was always the antagonist.
IIRC it's the same one they put in front of Black Panther 1 on Disney+ during Chadwick's birthday 2 years ago, and it's still there today. Though that one still has the marvel fanfare.
https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/black-panther-wakanda-forever-ryan-coogler-interview
And Namor was always the antagonist.
IIRC it's the same one they put in front of Black Panther 1 on Disney+ during Chadwick's birthday 2 years ago, and it's still there today. Though that one still has the marvel fanfare.
Too bad they don't do those MCU comic 'Prelude' tie-ins anymore. You could repurpose that (minus Namor) into one hell of an emotionally devastating one-shot: T'Challa picking up the pieces from Endgame, grappling with the time lost, trying to reconnect with loved ones who have moved on, and then learning he has terminal cancer (or whatever it was in-universe). But I guess that would've given away the T'Challa Jr surprise.
On the contrary, I loved the contrast of Wright's slender frame in comparison to the typical overly-buffed superhero body, which further demonstrated the level of potency the heart-shaped herb's enhanced physical abilities provided for Shuri. I thought it was empowering to see someone so small stand up against someone of great physique such as Namor.
That said, her one-on-one fight with Namor on the beach did demonstrate how little hand-to-hand combat experience Shuri has had because she always relied on her gadgets to fight. I don't know if that was deliberate commentary on Coogler's part but that's how I took it up and I hope the sequel (or whenever we see Shuri again) further addresses Shuri's lack of combat training.
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