Spoilers Black Lightning - Season 1

[Morpheus 02]

And yet no one has denied there are racial issues at play or being portrayed, on the contrary it is only you acting as though anyone has made such a claim. Attempted to imply there is inherent racism in pursuing or considering any line of analysis other than a single narrative is disingenuous and frankly comes across as deliberately cynical.

What y'all have done is extremely downplayed Trek God's explanation, from a black perspective, as to what Khalil is going through.

You still have presented no reason at all why those acknowledged racial issues preclude other aspects of the human condition, nor have you explained what you mean by "foundational motives".

​

Well, I sure have.

See below
[quote]​

There are cultural drivers at play but all the evidence is strongly against there being underlying racial variance in social cognitive processes. Toxic masculinity is not specific to any given race, nor is it a liberal construct, on the contrary it is a very effective term for a variety of aspects of male behaviour which are well established to be pan cultural. Indeed there is a plethora of evidence for their expression across many hominid species in much the same forms we see throughout humanity. Those behaviours had and have been examined objectively long before and outside of the current wave of partisan politics you seek to blame.

​

[/quote]

But violence and the need for revenge are NOT just a "male" problem.

WHile Tobias's sister, Syonide and Lady Eve were more "in control" and "calm"... they are still in that spectrum where Khalil now is.

And the manipulation of Khalil was the idea of Tobias' sister , was it not? And certainly encouraged with a "testimony" by Syonide, who seems to have been on the same journey as Khalil, but is further down the road. So Khalil's "development" doesn't seem to be driven by someone with toxic masculinity problems (as abusers often pattern what they have experienced/been taught).
​

Far from being "as different as fingerprints" those patterns are well documented as being evident throughout pretty much all societies and actually don't correlate with race at all. The values placed on those behaviours vary widely between cultures but there is essentially no evidence that sexual violence or misogyny have a racial basis.

​

But the behaviors are not EXCLUSIVE to males. And how has Khalil shown sexual violence or misogyny (as opposed to feeling betrayed by a lover)?
​

Therefore the onus is on you to provide a case for why toxic masculinity is an invalid construct to apply here and make that argument consist of more than a glorified "because I say so".

[/quote]
Dodge gave examples of actual toxic masculinity... the attempted pimping of Jennifer, and the attack on the lesbian bar. Substitute a black lesbian with the antagonists in those situation, and the motivation would feel really different, possibly even crazy. So an argument that those antagonists are showing toxic masculinity would be on target.

Substitute a black lesbian for Khalil and his story line , and it would play out pretty much the same way. So would you say SHE was an example of toxic masculinity?

I see racism as a spectrum. The KKK would be "red" and Donald Trump rhetoric is "orange"...so most white people would rightfully say they aren't racist based on those. But there are other ways to be a "light racist", such as not acknowledging what Trek God has said (re-reading Christopher's comments, I think he gets it to a certain degree).

I now throw the ball to you to explain why the reasons that Trek God has given are NOT the primary drivers for Khalil? ANd also, why a female character wouldn't follow the same storyline.
​

So anyway... there's one thing we can all agree upon, and that's that this has been a really good first season.
Looking forward to the finale tonight(well, tomorrow for me).

Work on Season 2 is already underway and according to the writer's room instagram:

Spoiler: S2 spoiler

https://www.instagram.com/p/BhpLeauHISf/

Either Tobias Whale will be back for S2, or he's joining the writing team

Indeed. We CAN all agree on it...[/quote]

 

[Spot261]

Substitute a black lesbian for Khalil and his story line , and it would play out pretty much the same way. So would you say SHE was an example of toxic masculinity?

You realise that's a dreadful argument? We have a male character demonstrating classic instances of toxic male behaviour, as commonly seen in society. It's a portrayal of toxic masculinity. Arbitrarily changing the gender of the character for argument's sake doesn't alter that.

I know throw the ball to you to explain why the reasons that Trek God has given are NOT the primary drivers for Khalil? ANd also, why a female character wouldn't follow the same storyline.

I said they weren't the ONLY drivers, not they weren't the primary ones.

 

[Morpheus 02]

You realise that's a dreadful argument? We have a male character demonstrating classic instances of toxic male behaviour, as commonly seen in society. It's a portrayal of toxic masculinity. Arbitrarily changing the gender of the character for argument's sake doesn't alter that.
.

It's not arbitrary... it is proving that the behaviors are NOT toxic masculinity.... definitely TOXIC, but the reasons for Khalil's behavior and attitude doesn't derive from toxic masculinity. Why would the techniques Tobias used NOT work if his sister had been the one using them on a female?

Again.. those OTHER examples ARE toxic masculinity.

 

[theenglish]

Can't wait to watch the finale. I honestly didn't read through all the posts about Khalil, but he seems to me to be very much a victim and I think he reflects a lot of young guys (regardless of race) caught up in circumstances beyond their control when they feel the world has screwed them over. This was a major characteristic of the punk rock movement in the seventies, for example. And one could argue that Trump was elected on the backs of poor guys who believe the system has dealt them a crappy hand. I still think that at his core he is a good guy and I am hoping that the season finale proves me right.

 

[The Realist]

So anyway... there's one thing we can all agree upon, and that's that this has been a really good first season.

Definitely. Probably my second favorite among the current DCCW shows (after Supergirl).

 

[Morpheus 02]

Definitely. Probably my second favorite among the current DCCW shows (after Supergirl).

For me, it is #1...even with its time inconsistencies, I can easily overlook them to enjoy the show and its social commentary.

 

[Spot261]

It's not arbitrary... it is proving that the behaviors are NOT toxic masculinity.... definitely TOXIC, but the reasons for Khalil's behavior and attitude doesn't derive from toxic masculinity. Why would the techniques Tobias used NOT work if his sister had been the one using them on a female?

Again.. those OTHER examples ARE toxic masculinity.

You do realise I havent offered any examples?

 

[dahj]

I still think that at his core he is a good guy and I am hoping that the season finale proves me right.

I hope you're right too.
At its core this is a hopeful show that presents problems and issues, but does not show them as an unchangeable status quo, so if Henderson could overcome police corruption, hopefully BL's "death" will be Khalil's wake up call that anger and violence are not the way.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Therefore the onus is on you to provide a case for why toxic masculinity is an invalid construct to apply here and make that argument consist of more than a glorified "because I say so".

You must be joking. The only one who has to prove anything is the member who introduced the unsubstantiated charge of toxic masculinity into this thread about the Khalil character. Unlike the black male struggle--which is a running theme in the Black Lightning series, the toxic masculinity charge is not supported by the evidence in the series up to this point, so I'm still waiting for dodge to present it.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

It's not arbitrary... it is proving that the behaviors are NOT toxic masculinity.... definitely TOXIC, but the reasons for Khalil's behavior and attitude doesn't derive from toxic masculinity.

Exaclty, and if you notice, those pinning that on Khalil do so from the positon of no understanding of the struggles/experiences of the black male, because if they did, there would be no way to even fantasize that his behavior stems from that charge.

Why would the techniques Tobias used NOT work if his sister had been the one using them on a female?

Again.. those OTHER examples ARE toxic masculinity.

True examples (at least in TV) can be found with Morgan Edge on Supergirl, Billy Hargrove from Stranger Things, both The Governor and Negan from The Walking Dead or Loki (In The Avengers more than anywhere else). All different characters, all different backgrounds, but their particular brand of male behavior truly fits the sort of judgement that cannot be applied to the Khalil character who exhibits no traits of that--or any kind lending itself to that judgement.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Black Lightning
Season one finale: "Shadow of Death: The Book of War"

Jefferson Pierce/Black Lightning: Effective flashbacks to the relationship with his father, and how that father figure--once lost--is more destructive than anyone would know.

As much as it was interesting to see young Jefferson use his powers for the first time, the sight of police chasing down that young black child--clubs swinging at him--served as part of the powerful framing of the series' messages of the struggle of black males, the effect of the loss of a parent (a strong parent) and that ever-present mountain that one can climb, or avoid. The depth of his father's belief, responsible behavior and faith in Jefferson was powerful--even if part of this was caused by the ailing Jefferson's trauma.

The second Jefferson thought he lost his powers, I wondered what would force him to want to become BL again (of course that was coming), how Anissa and Jennifer would react as their father was willing to sacrifice himself. The connections between parent and child is t=one of--if not the most important running theme of the show

Gambi: Loved all things Gambi in this episode--from the flashbacks, to his planning--the works. The love he has for the Pierce family--his family--feels genuine.

Anissa & Jennifer Pierce: The sisters--through fear and anxiety were handled well--with Jennifer having to try (for now) to accept a world of truth she never knew about her father, grandfather and the possible fate of Khalil.

Anissa's "Turn our back on Freeland? On the people?" Yes, it was a superheroic statement / resistance to letting the enemy win, but that was also a comment on how real world cities like Freeland need to be protected, instead of people thinking the can just run off to happyland and forget where they come from, which is tied to who they are.

Lynn: Great to see her fed up with being a bystander and ready to deliver pain. "I grew up hunting with my dad". Yes, black people hunt too, and their experience with firearms is not about the crime stereotype. Her tag teaming with Gambi against the strike team was a joy to see.

Proctor / the A.S.A.: "Don't tell me you people aren't use to those" (regarding the cuffs). Nothing more to say about that kind of everyday racism. Treacherous as expected, I cannot deny having a smile on my face when Gambi shot him.....but I wonder if that's s the end of him.

Tobias: What a history Gambi painted for Tobias as the ultimate manipulator.

"..this funny-looking negro.." Once again, Tobias comments on both his own inner demons abut color, and how others mistreated him for his appearance.

Khalil: The lost Khalil sinking further into unapologetic criminality---for now.

LaLa: So, Tobias was behind the reanimation program, with the bizarre effect of generating hallucinations of all he kills. That kind of psychological torture seems like the kind of spark needed to make LaLa eventually turn (I do not believe he's dead) and help his "old friend" from the neighborhood--meaning Jefferson. It would an example of a so-called "career criminal" being able to break that cycle and the stereotype of "once a criminal, always a criminal" often used against black people.

NOTES: GREAT tension in every plot direction: exactly what a new series' first season finale should be.

The one and only one failing of this episode was the Trump quote. Its as moldy as the man known for using it, and past any value as a critique of a kind of personality and belief.

Earth, Wind and Fire's classic "Shining Star" was used so well in the battle sequence.
Sly and the Family Stone's "Family Affair" --another appropriate use of a great song.

Like the dinner prayer scene, one of the daughters (I think it was Jennifer's voice) considering their powers a gift from God reinforces their faith being real and not set on a shelf or abandoned. That belief in God easily and beautifully blends with the love and support in this family, and that's so refreshing / encouraging to see against a predominantly secular TV landscape.

GRADE: A+. - Never any doubt. I love this series--the best superhero debut season since Daredevil and Jessica Jones. BL is in a class of its own.

I cannot wait for season two of the greatest DC TV series.

 

[The Realist]

Not the show's finest hour, I fear. The revelation that Proctor was running a rogue operation felt hastily rushed in from left field to give the season some closure and leave Jefferson and family in a somewhat secure place. Seemed to me to squander much of the complex cloak-and-dagger worldbuilding they've spent most of the season building up in exchange for an all too neat and convenient resolution.

If Lala is dead (again), that's also wasted potential.

Not that there wasn't good stuff, too. Jefferson's near-death encounter with his father was very nicely done, and it's good to have Jennifer on her way to joining the family business.

Speaking of, I did bust out laughing when Jefferson rebuked Jennifer for putting the energy smackdown on Proctor, and she responded with the most perfect sorry-not-sorry teenage eye-roll and face-shrug.

 

[Christopher]

A pretty effective finale. It was predictable that Jennifer would be the one to recharge Jeff's powers, but it was still well-handled.

I was surprised by how much exposition there was in this finale. A lot of things that have been left as mysteries and hints got spelled out all at once, like they were checking off boxes. Tobias's powers, Syonide's and Khalil/Painkiller's abilities, Lala's resurrection, even Black Lightning's origin story. Nice to get answers, but it would've been nice to have them spread out more throughout the season.

I do wish they hadn't scored the climactic battle with a song that autotuned the singer's voice, gave it that sort of artificial buzzing quality that's been fashionable in some songs since that tech came along. I don't know what it is about autotuned voices, but I find them utterly unbearable to listen to. They're my chalk on the blackboard, and then some.

On the one hand, it seemed a bit heavy-handed to have Proctor intone "Make America great again" twice in the episode. I mean, yeah, we know he's a racist already, no need to make it any more blatant. But that's the thing about the kind of people who go in for MAGA and the like -- they often really are that blatant. Their thought processes are reduced to reciting memorized catchphrases and mistaking them for meaning. Sure, Proctor's one-note bigotry and bullying made him less interesting than a more nuanced villain would be, but recent history has driven home that real-life villains often are pretty shallow and obvious.

 

[thribs]

It was a pretty good finale. I would have had his lightning become black after his daughter “recharged” him. It is the reason he is called Black Lightning in the comics.
Looking forward to the next season and the inevitable crossover with Arrow which we all know is coming.
So the Teletubby is the Tattoo Man. The only one I’m familiar with is the Green Lantern villain which I doubt he is. I doubt he’s dead.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I thought Lala got short shrift in the end when his journey had been rather fascinating. Though I wonder if that's because William Catlett has done a great job with his portrayal and made the character more than it was meant to be? I thought Proctor was a bit too over-the-top in his white villain role though Gregg Henry seemed to be having fun eating up the scenery.

That said, Syonide I thought became a lot more interesting with her story and presence in the episode.

Our heroes fared well though and it was nice to see everyone kick ass together to the strains of Shining Star and Family Affair.

 

[Christopher]

It just struck me that Kara Fowdy never got any resolution. Nobody seems to have found out that she was working for Proctor and/or the ASA. (I still think she was reporting to someone else separately from Proctor, but I'm not as sure as I was before.) So as far as we know, she's still embedded at Garfield as the vice principal. That's a cause for concern. Even aside from that, I'm just disappointed that she was missing from the finale. Last week, it was starting to look like she was getting fed up with Proctor's condescension and on the verge of turning against him.

Also, what the heck happened to Grace Choi? She was in just a few episodes and then vanished.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Not the show's finest hour, I fear.

^ To the agony booth with this one!

The revelation that Proctor was running a rogue operation felt hastily rushed in from left field to give the season some closure and leave Jefferson and family in a somewhat secure place. Seemed to me to squander much of the complex cloak-and-dagger worldbuilding they've spent most of the season building up in exchange for an all too neat and convenient resolution.

Proctor might be out of the way, but his work, the facilities and metahumans are now all for the taking--by Tobias (among others). The program was the big threat, after all, and I see that all coming to a head next season.

If Lala is dead (again), that's also wasted potential.

I'm guessing he has the ability to fake his death and as mentioned yesterday, I feel he may end up helping Jefferson as a criminal able to turn his life around.

Not that there wasn't good stuff, too. Jefferson's near-death encounter with his father was very nicely done

Yes, that was nicely done. Hitting al of the necessary emotional beats Jefferson had been dealing with all season long.

 

[dahj]

If Lala is dead (again), that's also wasted potential.

If you don't see a body...
Seems a waste of a million dollars to just blow him up though, don't it?

I was surprised by how much exposition there was in this finale. A lot of things that have been left as mysteries and hints got spelled out all at once, like they were checking off boxes.

Yeah, the first third of the episode was an exposition festival, can't help but feel the ending felt a bit rushed as a consequence. When/what/how did they get into the lab? Why did they all go and without protecting their identities? What are they gonna do with the lab tech who knows they're the Pierces?

It just struck me that Kara Fowdy never got any resolution.

Also, what happened to the stasis kids?

Also, what the heck happened to Grace Choi? She was in just a few episodes and then vanished.

Last she was mentioned Anissa called her asking her voicemail out, and then the show hit the overdrive with plotlines and twists, maybe they're in a off-screen relationship just like Thunder was an off-screen superhero all of a sudden Hopefully we'll see more of her in season 2.

As for which universe this is, we now know that there's a green substance that's making metahumans... it's gonna be kryptonite in the box, innit... THIS IS IN THE SMALLVILLE UNIVERSE!

 

[Marc]

THIS IS IN THE SMALLVILLE UNIVERSE!

Go wash your mouth out for saying that

 

[Christopher]

Seems a waste of a million dollars to just blow him up though, don't it?

Depends. If it meant Proctor was killed and Tobias got to take over the operation, that would net him far more profit in the long run, and he'd consider the investment to have been worth it. Heck, how many millions of dollars does the military spend on bombs and missiles?

Also, what happened to the stasis kids?

Lynn said she knew someone who could help them -- probably a setup for next season. I'd imagine they don't want to wake the kids up just yet because they might be adding some of them as new recurring characters and need time to do the casting. (I keep wondering if one of them might be a certain Virgil Hawkins...)