Spoilers Black Lightning - Season 1
- Thread starter dahj
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Yes. Superhero comics have a long history of being political and socially progressive. Superman was fighting for social justice and against war profiteers, corrupt politicians and slum lords, wife-beaters, and even reckless drivers long before he ever fought Brainiac or Metallo. The original Wonder Woman comics were a blatant (if rather kinky and weird) statement in favor of women's rights and against war and violence. And the creation of Black Lightning -- DC's first black superhero, a conscious attempt to diversify the line -- cannot be seen as anything but a political statement, a promotion of equality and social change.
One of my big disappointments about Arrow is that it's rarely followed the precedent of the comics in which Green Arrow is one of the most outspokenly political, liberal, socially activist characters in the DC Universe. Even though Oliver Queen has been mayor for a while now, they've tended to keep his politics rather generic, aside from one episode where they made an admirable if imperfect attempt to address gun control. Arrow is supposed to be the most serious show in the foursome, but it doesn't really get serious about the issues as often as Supergirl does. Which is too bad, because Stephen Amell's pretty good at making speeches. I'd like to see him get to deliver more speeches that have real substance on more than a personal level.
The third time that year.
From what I gather that is an experience that unfortunately way too many black people can relate to...
I was particularly impressed that the show wasn't merely enjoyable, but it feels relevant and sets out very strongly right from the start to address issues, from police brutality, gang violence, exploitation of women, social protests, and all that in the span of one episode.
If you really want to get down to Superman, he stands for truth, justice and the American way, and he takes pride in all of that. He believes in the good of America and the writers just don't. Yes, he fights for justice but that's not a liberal thing--that's a human thing.
I don't have a problem with a black superhero. In fact, I always say that if you want a black superhero, create one. I loved John Stewart on Justice League, and Static Shock was awesome. Black Lightning was one of the first. And he's great. Terrific. I don't look at his existence as anything political. I see him not as a black superhero, but a superhero, period. He's not a politically correct character. Maybe you're right that the intent was to make a black superhero, and that's fine, but the goal should be to not see that and just see him as a hero, which is how I am choosing to view him.
And while one of the producers may have claimed that incident happened to him, that may also be a perception of what happened to him, and not the actual fact. I do not believe cops as a whole are like that, and this show only perpetuated a prejudice and racism against white cops, which I don't think is the intent.
Regarding your point about Arrow, at least there, you have a comic based precedent to make him that way, but it does not belong on Supergirl--which does no service to women by having writers say that the only way for a woman to be strong is for a man to be weak. Misandry is not the cure to misogyny.
When Supergirl gets away from that, the show is first class.
If Arrow did want to have Oliver be a bastion of liberal values though, then they should also have another character that is the exact opposite, who can intelligently counter Oliver and NOT HAVE HIM BE A VILLAIN. Unfortunately, Hollywood being what it is, they wouldn't hire a writer capable of conveying that.
But either way, sometimes people just want to watch TV to be entertained, not preached to, and they want an hour without politics. Comic shows are that kind of genre.
Wouldn't watching TV on one of those projectors wear it out?
I posted a grading poll for the first episode..i didn't see this thread, at last on the first page of the forum after the episode aired, so i assumed there wasn't one...
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/black-lightning-episode-1-01.292323/#post-12325514
So if you guys want to rate what you thought (so far)... I am assuming we won't be doing weekly threads...
Also, I was wondering if anyone is African AMerican, and what your thoughts are on the show.
That is her natural hair. It might be short, but not much shorter than Sam Carter on Stargate SG-1 (which i am watching right now). That is the way it has been worn for millenia by millions of women. And yeah...British actors often sound "better" with their "natural" accent...but so far, it seems good.
Any African Americans (or anyone of African descent) care to speak on this?
I undertsand and appreciate the history you are providing, but while not quite the Superman-family character, Barry Allen & Oliver Queen has been a part of Superman's universe for 1/2 a century...so by that logic Supergirl should have been a part of Earth 1.
I think Christine Adams' character would be a great mentor for Iris West-Allen, to help her navigate the perils of being married to a superhero. ALso, Jefferson Pierce is a bona fide leader (a principal not only leads the students, but also a "team of heroes" -- the teachers), with years of experience...so i would love for him to lead their unofficial not-Justice League league.
The first episode definitely left if vague as to which super heroes were around. I hope at least for just the first season it will be vague.
And i agree... this family dynamic is good... it would be nice to see more of this
I agree, which is why I can't get too upset yet.
Overall, I did like it--despite the anti-cop complaint, which I do think is valid.
By the way, i do want to be challenged by a show, though like you, not so heavily preached.
Let's let the season play out first. We also have stereotypes that all young black men are thugs...which so far, if you aren't being subjectively racist, also did in this episode. But since we are not assuming all young black men will not be portrayed as thugs, i think we should at least let Black Lightning let this play out in the season. I suspect we will have a story where a white officer will be awoken to his past ignorance.
There have been plenty of corrupt cops in Arrow...and if you follow Gotham, like 90% of cops seem to be there. If those aren't considered anti-Cop shows, we shouldn't for Black Lightning.
Also, a black police COmmander at my church shared with us how some of the white cops he has worked with share similar ignorance (though i think to a lesser degree).
Now i forget...are you the one who has complained about Superman killing Zod in Man of Steel? If so.. then let that feeling help you understand how African AMericans feel about the police as a whole...because those consequences are real life, and worse than a fictional Superman killing a fictional villain, there have been far too many innocent African AMericans getting killed. (And many who are "guilty" of something were certainly not guilty of a capital offense)
Definitely my friends, neighbors and fellow churchgoers have many stories.
And regarding the issues -- it's a whole lot for one episode...i assume they will unpack some of these by spreading them out in the season. They just did a good job of showing that Black Lightning isn't afraid to face them.
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/black-lightning-episode-1-01.292323/#post-12325514
So if you guys want to rate what you thought (so far)... I am assuming we won't be doing weekly threads...
Also, I was wondering if anyone is African AMerican, and what your thoughts are on the show.
Wow...that is just ... racially ignorant. I believe there is a "rainbow of racism". The KKK would be red, T*rump orange, but that is somewhere between green and blue.
That is her natural hair. It might be short, but not much shorter than Sam Carter on Stargate SG-1 (which i am watching right now). That is the way it has been worn for millenia by millions of women. And yeah...British actors often sound "better" with their "natural" accent...but so far, it seems good.
Any African Americans (or anyone of African descent) care to speak on this?
I undertsand and appreciate the history you are providing, but while not quite the Superman-family character, Barry Allen & Oliver Queen has been a part of Superman's universe for 1/2 a century...so by that logic Supergirl should have been a part of Earth 1.
I think Christine Adams' character would be a great mentor for Iris West-Allen, to help her navigate the perils of being married to a superhero. ALso, Jefferson Pierce is a bona fide leader (a principal not only leads the students, but also a "team of heroes" -- the teachers), with years of experience...so i would love for him to lead their unofficial not-Justice League league.
The first episode definitely left if vague as to which super heroes were around. I hope at least for just the first season it will be vague.
And i agree... this family dynamic is good... it would be nice to see more of this
I agree, which is why I can't get too upset yet.
Overall, I did like it--despite the anti-cop complaint, which I do think is valid.
I would agree, and my daughters have actually been turned off by it. Now, i haven't seen the last couple of episodes (other than a few minutes of the last episode) ..but it seems like they might be going back to what made it enjoyable. We'll see.
By the way, i do want to be challenged by a show, though like you, not so heavily preached.
Let's let the season play out first. We also have stereotypes that all young black men are thugs...which so far, if you aren't being subjectively racist, also did in this episode. But since we are not assuming all young black men will not be portrayed as thugs, i think we should at least let Black Lightning let this play out in the season. I suspect we will have a story where a white officer will be awoken to his past ignorance.
There have been plenty of corrupt cops in Arrow...and if you follow Gotham, like 90% of cops seem to be there. If those aren't considered anti-Cop shows, we shouldn't for Black Lightning.
Also, a black police COmmander at my church shared with us how some of the white cops he has worked with share similar ignorance (though i think to a lesser degree).
Now i forget...are you the one who has complained about Superman killing Zod in Man of Steel? If so.. then let that feeling help you understand how African AMericans feel about the police as a whole...because those consequences are real life, and worse than a fictional Superman killing a fictional villain, there have been far too many innocent African AMericans getting killed. (And many who are "guilty" of something were certainly not guilty of a capital offense)
Definitely my friends, neighbors and fellow churchgoers have many stories.
And regarding the issues -- it's a whole lot for one episode...i assume they will unpack some of these by spreading them out in the season. They just did a good job of showing that Black Lightning isn't afraid to face them.
Superman, the writers, and progressives in general believe in American ideals, too -- the real ones that matter. Acknowledging that we don't always live up to those ideals is not anti-American. Indeed, encouraging America to be its best self is itself an expression of belief and, yes, patriotism.
Judging by the current people in charge, I don't believe that. They certainly haven't shown it. And it's worse that the writers blindly follow that ideology.
If all it was, was acknowledging that sometimes we aren't perfect, then there wouldn't be such a divide. But again, a superhero show isn't the right spot.
I appreciate that. I've had the pleasure to get to know several cops in my lifetime, and none of them are racists. I'm not naive enough to think it doesn't exist, but I do believe that the bad is overemphasized, and the good dwarfs it, which is why seeing both examples of white cops be racist bothered me so much. I don't want this show to be a racist show, and hating on white people is still racism.
And yes, I don't mind being challenged on a show. I don't even mind if they wanted to do an episode with racism as part of it. We haven't come so far to say racism doesn't exist, but racism can come in many forms, and if a show really wanted to combat it, show it as more than white cops. The racist should be the villain, and I don't think cops should be painted as villains, and if they are, it should be a major exception.
The difference here is that the young black men who were thugs were in the same episode as our hero, a strong, good, just black man, whose two daughters are young black women who happen to both be amazing people too. Here, the only good cop we have seen is black, and all the white cops are racists. Again, I have concede--only one episode so it's unfair to judge yet.
While I don't think racism should be ignored, I think it's a greater service to combat it by showing people of all races working together with skin color meaning nothing. See The Flash for a perfect example.
Actually, pretty much all the CW shows are like that.
But think about this--is it a little racist to have the one show with the black hero be the one dealing with racism, when all the shows with white heroes have black characters on them, and have never covered this issue? Why can't Black Lightning just be a badass hero like the others?
I don't know if I actually had this conversation on this board, but I wasn't happy with that. It wasn't so much though that I was unhappy with Zod being killed in that situation because as written, it was a justifiable homicide. My issue with that is that SUPERMAN was written into that corner, and that Superman killing anyone, even if he should, was very out of character. I'd feel similar if Batman killed the Joker. Ultimately, in the real world, if these villains were killed, the world would be better off. Totally off topic, but if superheroes killed supervillains, how many innocent lives would be saved? Of course that can't happen, even in the real world, because that's not how justice works.
More on topic, I don't think the situation with the cops is nearly as bad as portrayed. If it were, the problem would be MUCH bigger. I think we have a media that selectively reports. I also feel like when the things that look terrible are shown, we don't get the whole story--just the part that makes the cops look the worst, with no context.
Just like the black cop who abuses the white person doesn't make the news, neither does the white cop who helps the black victim. And last night's episode of Black Lightning did nothing to help. If anything, that kind of stereotyping makes things worse.
Yeah, I have to admit, I was little annoyed when he had a second run in with racist white cops outside the club.
Overall, I really enjoyed it. The social issues, and the focus on protecting the community from a gang, did feel a little similar to Luke Cage, but that was really just on a very basic, surface level so it wasn't enough to feel like it was purposefully imitating LC.
After so many superhoroes who are single twentysomethings, it's a nice change of pace to get an older, experienced hero with a family.
Overall, I really enjoyed it. The social issues, and the focus on protecting the community from a gang, did feel a little similar to Luke Cage, but that was really just on a very basic, surface level so it wasn't enough to feel like it was purposefully imitating LC.
After so many superhoroes who are single twentysomethings, it's a nice change of pace to get an older, experienced hero with a family.
There's plenty of shows like that out there now, and have been since they started doing comic book shows, so it's I don't see a problem with a few of them getting into political issues. It's easier for a lot of people to take these kind of messages when they are in this kind of stuff than it is when they're in just straight real world dramas.
The reason Supergirl only presents one side of the issues, is because with the majority of them, for a decent person the other side doesn't even deserve half a brain cell's thought.
Not remotely as annoyed as he was, or as the millions of African-Americans who have to face harassment and danger from the police on literally a daily basis throughout their entire lives. That's something we should all be a lot more than merely annoyed by.
Besides, it was necessary to have both encounters with the police for the sake of setup and payoff. First we see how this is a constant reality that Pierce faces stoically, resisting his urge to use his powers, and that establishes the status quo of his life. That's necessary to set us up for later, when we see that he's finally pushed too far and decides he's not just going to lie down and take it anymore.
No, it's not an imitation -- it's another show from a similar cultural perspective. That's a good thing. We've had countless shows from similar white perspectives, so surely there's room for more than one superhero show from a black perspective. If we can have both Bruce Wayne and Tony Stark, then we can have both Luke Cage and Jefferson Pierce.
I still think it's kind of weird that DC TV has two black superheroes who are named after US presidents -- Jefferson Jackson and Jefferson Pierce. What's more, Thomas Jefferson and Andrew Jackson were both slave owners and Franklin Pierce, though supposedly morally opposed to slavery, was also against its abolition for political reasons. So it's weird that the characters' creators gave them those names. You'd think a name like Lincoln or Kennedy would be more appropriate.
Yeah, that's something I alluded to earlier. The show has made prominent "political" statements against xenophobia, misogyny, bigotry, and, oh yeah -- a president who ran and won on the strength of those "American" values, and continues to feed and encourage them in his faithful every day. That's controversial? That's political? There's an argument in favor of those things?
Nah. The bulb is rated at 4000 hours in eco mode (the mode I use) and it came with two. At 20 hours a week (I use it about half that), that’s over seven and a half years on two bulbs. So 15 years for me. And a new bulb is a few hundred dollars. So I can add another seven years easily (truth is, in 15 years, I’ll have moved on to another projector).
I have responded to this before on the pre-show thread. So either Christopher has forgotten or he has me on mute.
This is yet another racially ignorant statement. Does he not know many African Americans?
Kennedy is a popular GIRLS name for African Americans (at least 3 who my daughters know)...but for a guy?
And I only know if one person, Pastor Abraham Lincoln Washington, with Lincoln in his name.
NEITHER name is a common black surname. Jackson (like Michael or Jesse)is super common and Jefferson is up there (remember the TV show). I would LOVE to see documentation that shows the outrage of them having slave names.
The only thing that is weird is that the first nAme is commonly used as a surname.
It would be like if a character had the first name Bennett. My (or most people) reaction would NOT be "why was he named after a writer?"...but rather "why does he have a last name for a first name?"
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You're annoyed? Try being me for a while and see how annoyed you'd be (I was stopped by the cops at age 15 while walking to the bus stop after school on suspicion that I was the thief that stole something from a building nearby that I walked to the bus from school-me, a young man in a grey parka!) This has happend to a lot of black men (and women) so please don't tell me about 'annoyance'.
As for the flatfoots that went after Pierce? Spare them the sympathy, they probably don't deserve it (and if I were Pierce, I would have given them a good shock that would knock them out for a few hours, similar to this incident on a favorite TV show of ours.)
Oh, I know that kind of stuff happens, I just thought doing it twice in one episode was a bit repetitive. My problem was purely from a storytelling perspective, not a realism perspective.
Hell, I've heard stories out here of hispanic people who were stopped and had their IDs checked multiple times while on one drive.
Hell, I've heard stories out here of hispanic people who were stopped and had their IDs checked multiple times while on one drive.
As I said, it was storytelling that required the repetition. First you have to establish the character's status quo so that it will be meaningful when they make the choice to change it. You had to see Biff Tannen bullying George McFly with impunity before you could get the payoff of George deciding not to take it anymore. You had to see the townsfolk in The Seven Samurai/The Magnificent Seven being helpless against the raiders before it would be meaningful to see them learn to fight back against them. Establish the pattern, then break the pattern. That's basic storytelling.
Thanks for sharing...You're annoyed? Try being me for a while and see how annoyed you'd be (I was stopped by the cops at age 15 while walking to the bus stop after school on suspicion that I was the thief that stole something from a building nearby that I walked to the bus from school-me, a young man in a grey parka!) This has happend to a lot of black men (and women) so please don't tell me about 'annoyance'.
As for the flatfoots that went after Pierce? Spare them the sympathy, they probably don't deserve it (and if I were Pierce, I would have given them a good shock that would knock them out for a few hours, similar to this incident on a favorite TV show of ours.)
Hey, I was wondering if you could look at my responses to Christopher and critique them, and let m know where i can do better.
I think i am opening up a conversation with Kirk Prime, and i have more to write to him, but need some time.
Thanks
Black father, white mother.
Not really a surprise.
If a performer can adopt an American accent believably, then its no problem, like (for one example) Lennie James from The Walking Dead.
True.
In my review, I thought the use of the African American Inspector Henderson--introduced in the Supergirl comic in 2009--sort of lends itself to the theory that TV Henderson--essentially being the same character--means Black Lighting could end up sharing TV Supergirl's world. That would bring a much needed edge of reality that's been missing from the kind of head-in-the-clouds behavior (not a reference to flight) running through the Supergirl series.
Aside from the sibling arguments, I hope this family--going against the stereotyped portrayal of black families as dysfunctional / leaning toward crime on too many TV series--continues to be structurally sound as a much needed counter to Hollywood productions believing they're "keepin' it real" (ugh) by making every black family a Hip Hop, "street" caricature more at home in the endless early 90s gang film sub-genre (a universe of mischaracterization in those productions, even in films made by black directors), than anything mirroring real life.
I'm not so sure. The purpose behind the creation of that show was to use it as a soapbox, so the better episodes end up being the equivalent of happy accidents that find their way into the show.
....and have a positive young black male who has a sense of self determination--one of the movers of the plot, and is not merely there just to be there.
On that note, I'll just point out that some of the most liberal individuals (self-identifying) in Western society--in an attempt to be "understanding" often make many assumptions about African Americans either as some monolithic political body, or that they all share certain cultural interests without any deeper relation or experience to arrive at such conclusions. More grating are some admittedly liberal entertainment producers making historically ignorant, false equivalencies (a conscious choice), between the mistreatment/struggle of a racial minority group and others, as seen in the Supergirl episode ("Far from the Tree") with Maggie & her father.
Unlike a targeted case of the African slave identity/experience offensively applied to a black character (like Star Wars' Finn being a runaway given his name by a non-black man who rescued him), there's no outrage over characters having names like Jefferson, etc. Further, "Kennedy"--as in a reference to John Fitzgerald--is not some across-the-board mythical hero to African Americans as the Chris Matthews of the world would have everyone believe. While JFK was supported by a good number of African Americans in his run for president, many did not trust him and found themselves increasingly suspicious of his infamously slow support of Civil Rights as a social and legislative matter, citing the back-room conversations with key state governors to not go "too far" (paraphrasing) in order to hold on to what few southern and mid west states he would need for a reelection bid (and he was considering that as early as 1962).
Even the MLK-led Southern Christian Leadership Conference--though trying to work with JFK and his successor on Civil Rights issues--did not entirely trust them, in the face of what was seen as maneuvering tactics and/or resistance. In short, its presumptuous in the extreme to think that "Kennedy" would be a preferable naming choice for a black character, as if he's a universal hero/savior model.
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