• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS*****

Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

I am not finished with the book but it is horrible. It keeps my attention but whoever decided three officers should talkback to Picard, should get a wake up call. Kill those three characters off in a big hurry. I have disliked the Vulcan counselor from the beginning and the other two dummies are no better.

get rid of the borg too or change it up but you will be absorbed is STUPID sounding and ridiculous.
 
Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

Section 31 said:

In any case, Dayton is right - you should really read the book, and Janeway's usage in it, before you decide.

Umm. I'm not sure that's such a good idea. The book is bad (abominable might be a more accurate term). After reading it, I almost wondered if I should bother reading another Trek novel. Luckily, I've also read some very good ones recently, so that moment didn't last very long. Even then, though, the non-Trek books on my to-read pile have elevated in appeal since I finished Before Dishonor.

You didn't like the book while others have, but that's not what I was after when I suggested she read the book. My point was that she should read it (or, at the very least, the section(s) pertaining to what concerns her, or have someone give her the specific spoilers she needs) before passing judgment on it and before taking the position that she'll "never buy another Trek novel" if something happened and she disagrees with it.

Just a suggestion, tho.
 
Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

Section 31 said:
Warp Coil said: I have no problem with beloved characters getting killed off so long as their deaths are well-written, integral to the story and don't come out of left field. Sure, if Janeway was sitting there drinking a cup of tea and was killed by a stray phaser bolt, it would be lame and pointless.

But that's just it: Janeway was killed in what was probably the worst-written Trek novel in quite some time. Her death was the climax of a plot built on lame and pointless plot devices (mutiny) and ridiculous storytelling (the Borg ship eating starships and planets, flying through the sun yet still vulnerable to the Planet Killer's anti-proton beam, etc.) that it leaves the aftertaste of lameness and pointlessness inherited from the rest of the book which was, for the most part, lame and pointless.

Well I agree that the book has some weaknesses, but I don't think it was terrible. Also, Janeway's fate was at least tied to an important part of the story. When I was reading the novel, and got to the point where the Borg assimilated Janeway and made her their new Queen, I actually groaned. I was expecting a very typical ending - Picard and the Enterprise stop the Borg, rescue Janeway, reverse the assimilation process, and she goes back to her old job. No consequences. Nothing changed. But that actually didn't happen. And I, for one, was happy that PAD was bold enough to avoid the cliche.
 
Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

Baerbel Haddrell said:

For example, if PAD (or someone else) would want to write a story in which Calhoun saves the whole universe by an incredibly heroic, touching, selfless and powerful self sacrifice – I don`t care. I don`t want to read it, except maybe in a MU or What If? story that doesn`t touch the main book continuity. There is a handful of characters I don`t want to see dying under any circumstances.

I hope one of those is not Xyon, because with so many references to him knowing his fate, we're going to have to see it fairly soon...
 
Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

Well, I finished this yesterday, and since this thread EXPLODED in replies I'm not nearly going to read them all. I did however skim them and see that the majority of how I felt has already been noticed and posted by others. Those being:

This book was (all things considered) very average. It came out average not because any aspect of it was average but because half of what happened was absolutely fantastic and the other half was so much horrible BS.

I agree Leybenzon, T'Lana, and Kadohata were completely ridiculous in this novel with special emphasis on Kadohata who has been allegedly on the ship the whole time dating back what appears to have been many years. Her loyalties are awefully flimsy and I don't think I'm out of line saying that there is NO WAY Data would have selected this person to be 2nd officer. Prior to this book I liked all three of them especially Leybenzon. Now, however, I want them all dead. Quickly! And while some characters are made to be hated, I don't feel that was the intention here (possible exception being T'Lana). But even in those cases you are supposed to "love to hate them" (DS9's Dukat comes to mind) where as now I just hate them and don't want to see them again.

Now, I did catch the post where someone posted from PAD's log that he didn't have Q&A to reference. And well, yeah that does kinda suck, but unfortunately that little fact doesn't make the book suck less. In fact his response to that complaint to me was a bit of a cop-out.

[soapbox]
I call this "playing the victim" someone points out a problem and the person responds "it's not my fault." Well actually it is, because you are directly responsible for what you write and you know you are writing within a series, your editor (or whomever) gives you the book not immediately preceding yours and you don't think to ask them "uh, what about this book? why isn't it important?" And even then if they insist it isn't (from what I can tell PAD and KRAD know each other) why didn't PAD at least email KRAD and say "hey, I'd like to make sure my book is as good as I can make it and I'd like to just make sure I don't pull a character assassination after you've already written something, could you let me in on a few details?" This of course then begs the question why the editor decided Q&A wasn't important for PAD. WTF?![/soapbox]

Anyway... I don't feel the Borg were "scarier" at all. If anything all they were is more ridiculously over the top, it didn't make sense that they ate Pluto and grew to a size larger than Earth. Why exactly did they need to be that big? Oh yeah cause the Borg Queen is now a size-queen and being big means being perfect and better and stronger... whatever. :rolleyes:

Now let's talk the planet killer. For all it's apparent power and technology all the Borg had to do was move behind them and suddenly it can't do anything!?!? Oh and the bending time and space with her mind was kinda out of the blue.

Janeway, first of all I don't understand what all the talk is about her being dead, She wasn't dead at the end of the book I read.

For the epic scale of events that occurred in this novel, I think this (along with every other insanely huge event that occurs in large fictional universes) suffered from believability because how is it that only the Enterprise and the Excalibur were the only two ships we heard of or saw. And don't give me that "it's a big galaxy" mess. This was big enough that literally every ship that is armed should have been called directly to Earth. Voyager? Defiant? Where were you? I also found myself asking where the hell were the Klingons? They're our allies and are all about a good honorable battle? Hell I'd even venture to ask where were the Romulans, Breen, and any other big power in the quadrants? With the Borg being that "big a threat" no race who knows the Borg would begin to think they'd stop at Earth and would immediately go to help save Earth if not for the purpose of saving Earth but for saving their own planet that would be next. Similarly, I think someone up-thread asked Where the hell was the Federation President?!?!?!?!? Oh the council is making decisions but the damned PRESIDENT isn't in on it???

Now that I've listed most of (surely not all) the bad things here's the good:

I did like the fact that the Borg were at least attempted to be shown as FINALLY adapting to humanity and individuality, accepting and even allowing some drones to be someone autonomous. I never found it believable that the Borg (from the shows) wouldn't eventually realize there is some manner of "perfection" in accepting individuality. I also liked the fact that right off the bat Janeway was warned by Lady Q not to go running headlong into disaster and then Janeway being Janeway did it anyway and got immediately assimilated. I am one who am all for killing of a main character, even though I personally wouldn't have chose this specific one, it was done swiftly and actually made sense that Janeway would be the one.

Aside from much of the dialogue which I didn't like (and thought it rather out of character most of the time) I do think PAD is rather good at setting up scenes and situations, the sheer lunacy of the whole mutiny was itself a decent idea with a decent purpose, but the execution of it struck me as more slapstick comedy than deadly serious lives and careers are on the line. One thing about that scene however that I felt was spot on was Worf's reaction (not his dialogue). I believed he really would have killed all three of them without hesitation and regardless of how good Leybenzon is he'd have died terribly. Although Worf's little daydream about T'Lana spread eagle with fire ants struck me as very non-Worf. A redeeming quality was at the end when Worf took her to her quarters and showed more of what I expect out of the post-Ambassador version of Worf.

On the whole I find I have more bad things to say about this book than good, but I did actually like reading much of it (perhaps morbid curiosity? I don't know).

One thing regarding Pluto's affect on the solar system as a whole. I agree it'd be very minimal if at all. But when the Cube flew into the sun didn't it come out MUCH bigger than when it went it? Therefore insinuating that it took matter from the Sun itself too? While granted the sun is monstrously large compared to even Jupiter, taking matter from it to make the cube grow to be bigger than Earth seems like it'd have quite a large effect on the system, if nothing other than the fact that an Earth-sized object's worth of matter is now floating around the rest of the inner planets.
 
Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

^agreed. I want the three traitors killed by Worf.

No way Data chooses a pissy replacement for him.

PAD really needs to stop referencing his stuff soooo much. Don't get me wrong, I like building on Novels, but PAD seemed a bit heavy on his stuff to me.

I finished the book this morning and Janeway is not dead. We are not that lucky. Jelico and N. are as stupid as ever. How do these people get in power in a society like UFoP?????

The book was a decent read but it really was full of crap. Including the You will be Absorbed, or Assimilated, wait!! Which one is it? They are doing both.

Too bad the next novel is so far off in time...
 
Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

wizkid said:
^agreed. I want the three traitors killed by Worf.

Eh? None of them are traitors, at least not in the sense of betraying the Federation. Whatever one may think about the "obeying orders" vs. "personal loyalty" issue, everyone involved was acting in what he/she felt were the best interests of the Federation, and nothing that anyone did could be reasonably considered a capital crime.

Besides, the Federation doesn't do capital punishment anymore (as established way back in TNG Season One's "Justice"). And on top of that, you're talking about denying these people their constitutional rights. Not a very enlightened view, that.

Jelico and N. are as stupid as ever. How do these people get in power in a society like UFoP?????

I dunno. By killing those below them who aren't loyal? ;)

They don't strike me as being any more stupid than could plausibly achieve power in any constitutional liberal democracy. Their decisions were usually understandable -- why would Jellico listen to Seven when he's heard the vocies of the Einstein crew and Janeway, and when the Borg have never been known to imitate people before? I mean, hell, at least they're not as incompetent as former US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, or current US Secretary of Fatherland Security Michael Chertoff.
 
Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

Eh? None of them are traitors, at least not in the sense of betraying the Federation. Whatever one may think about the "obeying orders" vs. "personal loyalty" issue, everyone involved was acting in what he/she felt were the best interests of the Federation, and nothing that anyone did could be reasonably considered a capital crime.

Technically, you are correct. It was something of a Catch 22 for sure. So let me rephrase. Kill the three Picard disobeying officers off fast. Much like when Worf was going to and the nerve pinch got him. I didn’t see Picard yelping to bad for him to stop. I say, get them out of the books, ASAP.


Besides, the Federation doesn't do capital punishment anymore (as established way back in TNG Season One's "Justice"). And on top of that, you're talking about denying these people their constitutional rights. Not a very enlightened view, that.

My bad, Section 31 must just plan parties for the Admiralty of Star Fleet. A Time to Series... straightened that up for us.

I dunno. By killing those below them who aren't loyal? 

They don't strike me as being any more stupid than could plausibly achieve power in any constitutional liberal democracy. Their decisions were usually understandable -- why would Jellico listen to Seven when he's heard the vocies of the Einstein crew and Janeway, and when the Borg have never been known to imitate people before? I mean, hell, at least they're not as incompetent as former US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, or current US Secretary of Fatherland Security Michael Chertoff.

You think Jellico and Admiral N. are all that reasonable? Really? Have you read the book? Specifically the ending in the Bunker how they just want to piss Picard off by allowing T’Lana to stay? Real justifiable. How about recalling the Enterprise to Earth when obviously, there was NOTHING any ship was going to do anything to the Cube or the other Cube spawned ships. Sound real bright? No, I don’t think so.

You would think after Picard stopping the Borg on more than one occasion they would give him some leniency regarding those matters.

Not sure how your political opinion got drug into a fictional book discussion.
 
Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

Maestro said:
In fact, the whole book was rather comic booky.

That's like complaining a Tarantino film is violent or has swearing! For better or worse, that is the style of PAD's novels. Most times it comes off fairly well, sometimes very well, sometimes poorly. I suppose in a poorer novel, the comic book aspect is an aggravating factor, but alone it is not really a reason for criticism - you should know what to expect going in.
 
Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

Sci said:

Besides, the Federation doesn't do capital punishment anymore (as established way back in TNG Season One's "Justice"). And on top of that, you're talking about denying these people their constitutional rights. Not a very enlightened view, that.

Well, they assassinate political figures and use biological weapons, but at least they don't deny constitutional rights...of their own citizens, at least...
 
Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

wizkid said:
Besides, the Federation doesn't do capital punishment anymore (as established way back in TNG Season One's "Justice"). And on top of that, you're talking about denying these people their constitutional rights. Not a very enlightened view, that.

My bad, Section 31 must just plan parties for the Admiralty of Star Fleet. A Time to Series... straightened that up for us.

I think that A Time To... pretty firmly established that Section 31 is nothing more than an organized crime ring that happens to have tremendous resources and influence. It's certainly not a genuine arm of the Federation government, nor reflective of their political culture.

I dunno. By killing those below them who aren't loyal? 

They don't strike me as being any more stupid than could plausibly achieve power in any constitutional liberal democracy. Their decisions were usually understandable -- why would Jellico listen to Seven when he's heard the vocies of the Einstein crew and Janeway, and when the Borg have never been known to imitate people before? I mean, hell, at least they're not as incompetent as former US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, or current US Secretary of Fatherland Security Michael Chertoff.

You think Jellico and Admiral N. are all that reasonable? Really? Have you read the book? Specifically the ending in the Bunker how they just want to piss Picard off by allowing T’Lana to stay?

Completely and utterly realistic, that.

Real justifiable. How about recalling the Enterprise to Earth when obviously, there was NOTHING any ship was going to do anything to the Cube or the other Cube spawned ships. Sound real bright? No, I don’t think so.

And taking a hundred-something-year-old wreck that had been apparently destroyed, and whose control mechanism was only poorly understood, out in the hopes that they'd manage to successfuly reactive it is really any more reasonable?

Not sure how your political opinion got drug into a fictional book discussion.

Because I was making a point: That even in comparatively good political systems, incompetent people can ascend to power -- that this is a part of life.
 
Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

Not so long ago PAD pointed out in NF that visiting Talos IV still means being executed. I don`t know if I remember this correctly, but there is a vague recollection in my mind that I have read somewhere afterwards that the death penalty for visiting Talos IV has been abolished.

If that is true, about time! The whole idea was ridiculous and especially now, after the storyline with the Selelvians, it makes even less sense.

I am left too often with the impression that the Federation is at least sometimes good at preaching one thing and practicing another in secret. There might be no official death penalty for citizens any more but there are definitely cases in which people have been extradited to authorities who practise the death penalty, and there are definitely cases in which people have been handed over although it was certain or highly likely that they will be executed.
 
Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

Baerbel Haddrell said:
Not so long ago PAD pointed out in NF that visiting Talos IV still means being executed. I don`t know if I remember this correctly, but there is a vague recollection in my mind that I have read somewhere afterwards that the death penalty for visiting Talos IV has been abolished.

*shrugs* There's been no canonical reference to the death penalty in the 24th Century Federation, and "Justice" rather firmly insists that there is no capital punishment in the UFP (whatever its other flaws may be).

I am left too often with the impression that the Federation is at least sometimes good at preaching one thing and practicing another in secret. There might be no official death penalty for citizens any more but there are definitely cases in which people have been extradited to authorities who practise the death penalty, and there are definitely cases in which people have been handed over although it was certain or highly likely that they will be executed.

That's not necessarily hypocrisy, though -- there's a legitimate question there about respecting other states' sovereignty and about the Prime Directive.
 
Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

Sci said:


And taking a hundred-something-year-old wreck that had been apparently destroyed, and whose control mechanism was only poorly understood, out in the hopes that they'd manage to successfuly reactive it is really any more reasonable?

Why is it unreasonable to not even try? With Seven and Spock on board, my opinion as an Admiral would be: "Let them try. It can`t hurt. Who knows? It might even work." A small chance is always better than no chance at all.
 
Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

Baerbel Haddrell said:
Sci said:
And taking a hundred-something-year-old wreck that had been apparently destroyed, and whose control mechanism was only poorly understood, out in the hopes that they'd manage to successfuly reactive it is really any more reasonable?

Why is it unreasonable to not even try? With Seven and Spock on board, my opinion as an Admiral would be: "Let them try. It can`t hurt. Who knows? It might even work." A small chance is always better than no chance at all.

And a solid argument could be made that removing a Sovereign-class starship, automatically amongst the most powerful in the fleet, will weaken the entire defense effort.

I'm not saying that Jellico and Co. were right, I'm saying that they were understandable and that it's a bit unfair to just write them completely off -- especially since these two admirals no doubt also played important efforts in the Dominion War (given that both were admirals before the war and given their apparent tactical authority when Earth is endangered).
 
Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

Sci said:

I am left too often with the impression that the Federation is at least sometimes good at preaching one thing and practicing another in secret. There might be no official death penalty for citizens any more but there are definitely cases in which people have been extradited to authorities who practise the death penalty, and there are definitely cases in which people have been handed over although it was certain or highly likely that they will be executed.

That's not necessarily hypocrisy, though -- there's a legitimate question there about respecting other states' sovereignty and about the Prime Directive.


Yes, of course. But there is on the other hand room for abuse and there are definitely very grey areas here.

This certainly applies when talking about the Prime Directive. IMO, the whole idea of the PD is flawed but that is a different discussion.
 
Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

Sci said:
Baerbel Haddrell said:
Sci said:
And taking a hundred-something-year-old wreck that had been apparently destroyed, and whose control mechanism was only poorly understood, out in the hopes that they'd manage to successfuly reactive it is really any more reasonable?

Why is it unreasonable to not even try? With Seven and Spock on board, my opinion as an Admiral would be: "Let them try. It can`t hurt. Who knows? It might even work." A small chance is always better than no chance at all.

And a solid argument could be made that removing a Sovereign-class starship, automatically amongst the most powerful in the fleet, will weaken the entire defense effort.

I'm not saying that Jellico and Co. were right, I'm saying that they were understandable and that it's a bit unfair to just write them completely off -- especially since these two admirals no doubt also played important efforts in the Dominion War (given that both were admirals before the war and given their apparent tactical authority when Earth is endangered).

I don`t buy that. The Enterprise as a Sovereign class starship is powerful but certainly not an unique or even rare asset. There are many powerful ships around, among Starfleet, the Federation and beyond. I don`t buy it that the success of the fleet depended on the presence of the Enterprise and Picard. He would be one captain amongst many.

But with the Doomsday machine Picard had the chance to use assets and skills no other ship could provide.

Yes, I am sure they played an important part in the Dominion War. But this was not the Dominion War, this was a war against the Borg. That Jellico and Co. were not acknowledging that Picard had unique experiences and insights in fighting and dealing with them was bad enough. On top of that, I was left with the feeling that this was not just about stubbornness by not giving Picard the benefit of the doubt and trust his judgement. It was more personal: How DARE he not to obey orders? This was also a question about power, showing a captain who is boss here and try to put him in his place. That Jellico gave T`Lana the option to either resign or become Starfleet`s watchdog (meaning keeping an eye on Picard) says a lot, I think.
 
Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

I think that A Time To... pretty firmly established that Section 31 is nothing more than an organized crime ring that happens to have tremendous resources and influence. It's certainly not a genuine arm of the Federation government, nor reflective of their political culture.


I think you need to reread the last two books. One of the Admirals was tied directly to Section 31. At least he let them come in and get the President, #1 and #2 guys to go off and get the axe. Also, Worf kept mentioning he had heard of such devices but didn’t know they existed. Doesn’t sound like a “crime ring” to me. Sounds like the Dastrom (sp?) Institute all over it with Federation backing. They get those great devices from great minds, within Federation space.

Love the conversation that we all have going...

I do agree that Jellico came off more judgmental of Picard personally than he should.

One ship was not going to make the difference, period. And Earth had weapons it hadn’t used yet. For Picard and Spock to be in agreement Admirals should listen. Picard is the modern day Kirk, give him his leeway and let the man work. Has almost everything he pulled off with the borg worked?? Yes.
 
Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

wizkid said:
I think you need to reread the last two books. One of the Admirals was tied directly to Section 31. At least he let them come in and get the President, #1 and #2 guys to go off and get the axe.... Doesn’t sound like a “crime ring” to me. Sounds like the Dastrom (sp?) Institute all over it with Federation backing.

Sorry, wrong. You're getting the relationship backward there. Section 31 didn't answer to Admiral Ross -- he answered to them. They had him in their pocket. If the Mafia has corrupted an admiral in the US Navy, that doesn't make the Mafia a state-sponsored institution.

Also, the Federation is not a military dictatorship. Starfleet does not run it. Whether he had Section 31 backing or not, Ross had absolutely no legal right to unseat the democratically elected leader of the Federation. What Ross did was to stage a military coup, to subvert the constitutional process. Right or wrong, he committed a crime, and he got help from the career criminals of Section 31 in pulling it off. Help he probably didn't want, but was forced to accept because of S31's power over him.
 
Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

WARNING:

SPOILERS FOR STAR TREK: A TIME TO KILL, STAR TREK: A TIME TO HEAL, AND STAR TREK: ARTICLES OF THE FEDERATION AHEAD









wizkid said:
I think that A Time To... pretty firmly established that Section 31 is nothing more than an organized crime ring that happens to have tremendous resources and influence. It's certainly not a genuine arm of the Federation government, nor reflective of their political culture.

I think you need to reread the last two books. One of the Admirals was tied directly to Section 31.

I've read Kill and Heal many times. The admiral to whom you refer, of course, is William Ross -- and his internal monologue in Articles of the Federation makes it pretty clear that he was acting under duress: He knew that Section 31 intended to kill the President, and knew they'd kill him, too, if he tried to interfere with them.

At least he let them come in and get the President, #1 and #2 guys to go off and get the axe. Also, Worf kept mentioning he had heard of such devices but didn’t know they existed. Doesn’t sound like a “crime ring” to me. Sounds like the Dastrom (sp?) Institute all over it with Federation backing.

Again, they're nothing more than a criminal organization with enourmous resources -- or, if we want to risk a certain level of hyperbole, a domestic terrorist organization. They're certainly not real agents of the Federation government -- if they were, then Min Zife, the Federation President, would have known who they were (Azernal's internal monologue makes it clear that he did not), and they would have been under the control of the Federation President and/or Council -- which both their canonical and literature appearances have made clear they are not. Further, we've even seen the text of the section of the United Earth Starfleet Charter from which they justify their existence, and it does not authorize the various apparently illegal measures they have been known to take -- it only mentions certain rules being "bendable" in times of crisis, which is something whose exact meaning would need to be determined by an independent judiciary in order to have legal meaning.

They are, in other words, a rogue organization.

They get those great devices from great minds, within Federation space.

Certainly. But there is no evidence that the Daystorm Institute has any involvement with Section 31, nor that they are in any way under the influence or control of the Federation government -- a government that they apparently feel quite free to topple at will.

Christopher said:
wizkid said:
I think you need to reread the last two books. One of the Admirals was tied directly to Section 31. At least he let them come in and get the President, #1 and #2 guys to go off and get the axe.... Doesn’t sound like a “crime ring” to me. Sounds like the Dastrom (sp?) Institute all over it with Federation backing.

Sorry, wrong. You're getting the relationship backward there. Section 31 didn't answer to Admiral Ross -- he answered to them. They had him in their pocket. If the Mafia has corrupted an admiral in the US Navy, that doesn't make the Mafia a state-sponsored institution.

Also, the Federation is not a military dictatorship. Starfleet does not run it. Whether he had Section 31 backing or not, Ross had absolutely no legal right to unseat the democratically elected leader of the Federation. What Ross did was to stage a military coup, to subvert the constitutional process. Right or wrong, he committed a crime, and he got help from the career criminals of Section 31 in pulling it off. Help he probably didn't want, but was forced to accept because of S31's power over him.

Quoted for truth.

Remember, Ross was convinced that Section 31 would kill him if he got in their way, and was also convinced that they'd kill President Bacco if she ever learned the truth of President Zife's fate. They represent a significant long-term threat to Federation political stability, quite frankly -- hardly a genuine organ of the state.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top