Spoilers Batwoman season 3

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Enterprise is Great, Oct 13, 2021.

  1. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    When Jordan got frozen, I kept thinking that the Bat-team should've called Caitlin Snow at STAR Labs. Who understands cryogenics better? Ryan may not have met the other heroes yet, but Luke was probably aware of them through Kate, and if he has a friend at ARGUS, which is where Diggle and Cisco now work, then he has that connection too. (I wondered if his friend at ARGUS could be Diggle, but he said an "old friend," while he only met Dig a few months ago.)

    So... Mary got stabbed by a Poison Ivy thorn. Any bets on whether Ivy's consciousness takes over her body? Her insight about a plant cure could be the first sign.

    Normally I'd be annoyed by the hugely overused trope of a person of average physical strength being able to instantly kill someone by a head twist to snap their neck (the idea of which deeply disturbed me before I learned it didn't actually work). Not only would it take far more strength than someone of Rachel Skarsten's build is probably capable of, but it wouldn't even be fatal; at worst, it might cause paralysis. But I'll give it a pass since it was Alice's delusion and she could've just seen too many movies and TV shows that use that stupid cliche.
     
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  2. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Caught up with last week's episode. Another not bad episode as far as I'm concerned. Some of the questions that came to mind were answered in later scenes so they didn't rise to quibbles. I liked that the show is going to delve into corporate stuff because Ryan being made Wayne CEO should cause waves. I was sort of hoping though that Luke would take on CEO duties after he had the heart-to-heart with Wilder and told her how they can't lose Wayne, how much it means to him and his family. I still think he's a more logical, fitting choice than Ryan. I think I get why it's Wilder, though it's a creative decision I don't agree with, which is not the first for this series, and it won't be the last.

    I liked a lot of the relationship stuff here this episode. Liked how Mary got pushed to the side (and how I could see that coming back to hurt them all in the future), but also pushed toward Alice. Liked how Alice showed a softer side, and I liked her team up with Sophie.

    The bad guy-for now calling him Mr. Zero (in honor of Mr. Freeze's original name)-was a solid enough villain. I was confused though if he worked for the Black Glove and had been hired by Jada, or if Jada (as a member of the Black Glove) hired him. It appears that the episode took pains to make Jada not a complete villain in her concern over how Mr. Zero got the formula (though she wasn't too concerned). Also, her trying to destroy Wilder's career and her plans to (freeze?) her son also keep her sufficiently villainous, though I imagine that by the end of the season-or her run-she's going to try to save Wilder.

    Few quibbles this past week were Alice just hanging out at Mary's clinic. Wouldn't that freak patients out and make Mary look very suspicious to have Alice, a known, infamous criminal, just hanging around? She couldn't trust that Alice would keep their secret. It made more sense when they had her in the Batcave than as out in the open. Also didn't care for Alice just knowing about the Black Glove society. Alice too conveniently is used for exposition and to move the plot along. I would rather this have been a mystery that Batwoman and the others had to solve.

    I hadn't thought about it, but Christopher makes a good point about them calling in Caitlin. A phone call or just saying it in dialogue would've worked just as well as actually having the actress on the episode.
     
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  3. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, the Black Glove and the Court of Owls are similar, though I think the Court was better developed in the comics. The Black Glove came off as a group of strange villains (not much different than say the Legion of Doom, though on that level) as opposed to the Court, which was more of a deeply rooted, secret society. While looking at last week's episode I was reminded of how the Court's Talons need to be put on ice, so this whole Mr. Freeze formula thing works better for them than the Black Glove. That said, perhaps Batwoman is going to sort of combine the two ideas.
     
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  4. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    "Isn't that the woman that killed your mother?"
     
  5. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Thinking a bit more about why the writers made Ryan the CEO at Wayne, and going off something Guy had mentioned before, I could see her father actually being a Wayne. Though I don't see them making Bruce her father, but more so Dr. Hurt, a Wayne ancestor (and leader of the Black Glove), which would give her that blood tie to the Wayne family and fortune.

    I'm not saying if they did something like that, making Wilder a Wayne it would be great, because that would make her even more like Kate and almost do away with her being a poor/working class superhero.

    https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Simon_Hurt_(New_Earth)
     
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  6. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Season 3, Episode 5 - "A Lesson from Professor Pyg"

    Luke Fox/Not-Batwing:
    Not much to do in this episode.

    Alice: Interesting to see Sophie's reaction when Alice mentions Sophie's ex-husband. Clearly, its still a sore point for the ex-wife / ex-Crow.

    She's so amusingly dismissive of Montoya with her, "Don't blame me for this repulsive affair, "and every other insult she fires off at everyone.

    Wilder/Jada Jet/Marquis Jet: Wilder claims to be stopping the Wayne Enterprise bleeding, but the stocks are still plummeting. A rational mind would suggest Wilder hire a professional to handle the situation, since the former bartender/ex-con is in over her head...but the showrunners will never orbit the world of realistic behavior.

    Lazlo Valentin, The Professor: Er...yeah, how does Jada run a stable company when she employs rubber-room candidates like this Metropolis resident? Its not long before he murders Zoey (the other dinner guest), and dons a mask made of a pig's head and grabs a butcher knife...

    While Sophie snoops (with Luke's help), discovering a folded photo Jada warns Wilder to stay away from Marquis--or else. Wilder is not at all suspicious that the only way Jada would know Wilder has partnered with her brother, since that information could only come from one source...

    At dinner, Valentin drugs Jada, Marquis, Wilder and Sophie, plotting to kill Marquis (as revenge against Jada) due his being fired, losing his financial standing and eventually losing his family. Wilder manages to stab Valentin, giving others enough time to drag themselves to safety (in Jada's panic room), while Valentin dons his pig mask and resumes his would-be kill mission. Marquis suffers from respiratory arrest and a partial seizure....

    As Valentin builds a bomb in the kitchen, on Jada's orders, Wilder attempts to sneak into the basement to retrieve an Epinephrine-auto injector to save Marquis. only for Wilder to end up running for her life. In the panic room, Sophie accuses Jada of using the freeze tech on her sister, but Jada denies knowing anything about that...

    In the basement, Wilder (now injured) struggles to grab the Epinephrine, just as Valentin hacks his way into the basement...and discovers Wilder succumbing to the paralytic. Before he can kill her, Jada shows up, wanting to exchange her life for her daughter's, giving Wilder enough tome to inject herself (SEE NOTES) and mount a fight against Valentin, which she loses, until a revived Marquis cartoon-ishly and repeatedly stabs him in the back, killing Valentin.

    Later, Jada informs Wilder that Marquis is sick; when he was a child, the Joker used a sort of joy buzzer on Marquis, transforming him into a sociopath (SEE NOTES), hence his murdering Valentin. She also reveals she wanted to freeze Marquis in the hope of buying enough time to find a cure. Playing the mama card, she begs Wilder for help to stop Marquis before he kills again, and with that....

    Once again....

    "Will Wilder buy Jada's story and string nutjob Marquis along long enough to get seek a real partnership with Wilder?"

    "Will Marquis play Jada and Wilder, submit himself to unqualified Mary for treatment, and kill someone else?" Is he just a directed missile for Wayne Enterprises?"


    "Will Jada's threat to freeze her son be a ploy to distract the Jet family plans against Wayne Enterprises?"

    Sophie: ..and Sophie's employed where...?

    Well...gee. It just so convenient that Sophie was asked to go to the Jada get-together, so she can have some predictable "oh, isn't it love" moment with Wilder...while the world is falling apart around her. One note showrunner.

    Black Glove society: M.I.A.

    Mary: The whiner still behaves erratically due to the effects of Poison Ivy's thorn. Later, Mary is triggered (by Alice) to scream about how she saved Sophie's sister, making a pro-plant speech similar to the rambling of Poison Ivy. Further, she tires to psychoanalyze Alice about her medical issues being caused by some guilt for her life as a murderer, but begins to have more fits of her own, which Alice recognizes as the effect of Ivy's vines. Alice takes the dried-up ivy samples to Montoya as her ticket to an early parole, but Montoya notes that if the vines are dead, it means someone else has been infected (SEE NOTES)...

    Montoya: Her introductory plot is divorced from sense (...yeah...); she's so concerned with the villain weapons being off of the street, yet needs a vigilante to find the items, which means she's incompetent. Without Alice giving Montoya the only edge--information--to use against the one person (or team) capable of finding said items, then Montoya's failing at her job. This does not make her look some hard, results-driven person, but an opportunist who is falling into a "win" by the pure chance.

    ...and now, Alice has easily picked Montoya's brain to see she had a past with Poison Ivy (sigh), so, in comes the info-dump of how Poison Ivy came to be (blaming Marc LeGrand), ultimately asking Batman to bury Poison Ivy (away from light and water) to contain her. Suddenly, Alice hallucinates another postcard from Jacob, which shouldn't happen, since she's been taking the proper meds, or so she believed she was taking it...

    NOTES:

    Epinephrine does not counter the effect of a paralytic in the way presented in this episode, and it certainly does not revive anyone enough to make them capable of fighting an unimpaired man.

    Marquis' problems stemming from a Joker attack was..bullshit. Like the thankfully cancelled Supergirl, this series cannot create its own, unique villains, instead, it constantly referring or basing villains off of Batman's rogue's gallery, and will never be effectively handled.

    Montoya believes someone else has been infected by Ivy's vines, which the audience is made to believe is Mary, and in the next episode, Alice suspects Mary of being responsible for a number of murders....

    GRADE: C-.
     
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  7. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    This week on As The Bat Turns...

    I will give it this, it’s taken the story in a direction I wasn’t expecting. Jada and Marquis have taken on a new context and well, I’m not sure what to make of it. Montoya and Mary are now intertwined in the Ivy plot and Sophie and Alice getting some beats. It’s set up some direction and focus to what has felt a bit rudderless.

    Pyg is a bit wasted as a throwaway nutter of the week but worked to set up the pieces and put them in motion. Might be worth it if we end up getting a glimpse of Flamingo. Maybe they’re taking some hints from Gotham.

    The ladies definitely looked great and I kinda dig Netflix and Chill casual Alice. They really seem to be trying to make the character work with Team Batwoman.

    Nice shade with Alice saying she didn’t think heroes do that sort of thing with Batman and Catwoman.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2021
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  8. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This week's episode was the weakest of the season so far for me. With its slasher theme it's one that I felt could've been changed around a bit and put on before Halloween instead of after, though I guess the family feast does fit Thanksgiving.

    I though "Professor Pyg" was wasted. The actor was fine, the character's motivation within the story was also fine, but this wasn't Professor Pyg to me. There was no need to use that character at all. This could've just been a random person that Jet screwed over and simply wanted revenge. If need be create a new villain for the series. Just the last two episodes introduced two intriguing enough and potential recurring villains, in the female gang leader and the guy who worked for the Black Glove. So, the Batwoman writing team can create original villains that are good/good enough when they want to.

    The horror homage didn't really work for me, and I don't understand how a chef was able to pull all that off, and even contact Marquis. Granted Professor Pyg could do those things, but this guy wasn't really that character IMO. I also was wondering why didn't Luke check up on Sophie and Ryan. It was strange that he would just stay in the Batcave.

    I like Alice and Sophie being roomies, that was one of my favorite parts of this episode. I also like how they are developing the Alice and Mary relationship. I wasn't a big fan of Montoya's motivation being her love for Poison Ivy. It makes it all a little too soapish.

    I also really wasn't a fan with the direction they took Marquis. While it was a nice twist to expose Jada to really be a caring mother, I didn't like the idea of Marquis being this monster that was the threat. I knew that Jada got rid of Ryan to protect her, but I wasn't expecting it would be from Marquis. Now, there could be more to this story-I'm hoping-but knowing the writing staff they'll quickly fridge Marquis (or put him in cryosleep) and make Poison Ivy the big bad this season. Normally Poison Ivy being the big bad of the season wouldn't bother me, however, I would like to see them delve more into the Black Glove eventually getting to Dr. Hurt. They've got enough on their plate with the Jets, Black Glove, and the missing Bat trophies to do several seasons really, even without Poison Ivy.

    I'm holding out hope that they don't drain Jada of her shades of gray, or that Marquis isn't a complete psycho (and perhaps low-rent Joker).
     
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  9. The Habs Fan

    The Habs Fan Commodore Commodore

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    I personally thought this was the best of the season so far. I really like all the threads they have set up this season. The twist that Marquis, and not Jada, is the dangerous one was great. I get the feeling that he might become Ryan’s Joker and be her arch-nemesis throughout the series.

    Also, is it possible that Mary is turning into a plant? I think there was a Batman TAS episode about Poison Ivy making plant duplicates of people.
     
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  10. Commander Troi

    Commander Troi Adult of Dubious Maturity Premium Member

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    Ah, thank you! I'm not up on the last 20 years of Bat villains. I had to look up Professor Pyg.

    I liked the opening. Alice and Sophie watching a horror movie was wonderfully normal. Given that bit, and the horror tropes later, I wonder if this was originally planned to air around Halloween. I also think Rachael and Meagan are having fun working together.

    Alice continues to be fun to watch because Rachel is The Awesome. It's nice that Alice recognizes when she's off the rails and is concerned about it. I think she's become more lucid in general since Ocean. However, smart as she is, why do they have her figuring everything out? In this ep, some was being in the right place with the right people. And I did appreciate that she was only half right when she took the ivy to Montoya.

    Speaking of, I'm not liking Montoya in this. They've made her petty and kind of sad.

    Javicia seems to finally be fully comfortable as Ryan. Her discomfort in Jada's mansion's entryway rang true for me in a way her CEO persona has not.

    Jada finally gets some shades of grey, but as she told Ryan about not knowing how they got the cryo goop, I yelled at the screen, "and you didn't ask!" I'm not sure how much of her Protective Mom act I'm buying. Robin is doing a good job though.

    Marquis... I'm not sure what to think yet. The videos Ryan watched were nicely chilling. I certainly wasn't expecting it. I hope, if they go this way, that he's a new & original villain (which Batwoman needs IMO) instead of a Joker wannabe.

    I thought Mary had been acting weirder than normal! Props to the writers on this one. Hubby thinks Ivy is somehow "growing" herself inside Mary.

    Uneven, but mostly enjoyable.
     
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  11. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Over the last 20 years Professor Pyg is one of the few Bat villains that's really broken out (same with Court of Owls, maybe The Batman Who Laughs). Pyg has made it to animation in Beware the Batman and also live action in Gotham and Batwoman. I could easily see the Matt Reeves' take on Batman using him. He's a disturbing villain.

    I don't think they've done much with Dr. Hurt outside of Grant Morrison's run.
    Scott Snyder's Court of Owls came after the Black Glove and I think handled the secret society concept much better. Who knows if even newer villains like Grim Knight, Punchline, Abyss, or The Magistrate will catch on. The great thing for Bat writers is that the Bat Family rogues' gallery has tons of good villains, old and new, to work with.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Batman_Who_Laughs
    https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Bruce_Wayne_(Dark_Multiverse:_The_Grim_Knight)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_of_Owls
    https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Punchline
    https://screenrant.com/batman-abyss-new-villain-dc-connect-williamson/
    https://screenrant.com/batman-future-state-magistrate-evil-army-explained/
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2021
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  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Well, nothing like a conveniently timed serial killer situation to get people to bond and work through their issues. When we first saw Zoe growing numb from the wine, I tried to remember what Professor Pyg's schtick was in the comics. Then things got really slashery and gory and I went "Oh, yeah, that's what it was." Although I think he was more into gruesome experiments or something? I only really know the version from the animated Beware the Batman, which had to give him a much less bloody schtick.

    It sounds like Marquis may have been one of the children on the bus that drove Kate and Beth's car off the bridge. It's conceivable that the Joker could've abducted more than one bus full of schoolchildren in his career, but it seems unlikely the writers would go there if no connection were intended.

    So Mary's turning into Poison Ivy Jr.? That could be fun. I wonder how she'd look with green skin.


    Which I've just now realized is ironic, since Rachel Skarsten previously co-starred in Birds of Prey as a teammate of Huntress, aka Batman & Catwoman's daughter.
     
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  13. Commander Troi

    Commander Troi Adult of Dubious Maturity Premium Member

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    Ah! I'd totally forgotten that!
     
  14. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Batwoman
    Season 3, Episode 6 - "How Does Your Garden Grow?"

    Err...random woman sees strange substances on the ground, trailing into a shed she just walks in? No one behaves like that.

    Luke Fox/Temporary-Batwing:
    Aside from Alice referring to him as a "certified genius," (a distinction no one else seems to notice), once again, he was placed on the back-burner, and now hes injured.

    Alice: Always interesting to see her pick apart the insecurities of those she's forced to work with. As seen in last week's teaser, she accuses Mary of being responsible for the Ivy-esque attacks in Gotham, and sure enough, a victim in her clinic (wall-to-wall with plants) identifies Mary as his attacker, and being the sharpest pencil in this particular Bat-box, she uses Mary to do her dirty work (SEE THE MARY ENTRY) .

    Wilder: Wilder tries to sell Sophie a pile of BS that Jada is not connected to the freeze attack on her sister Jordan. One would hope Wilder falls on her face with this fantasy--and hiding things from Sophie (like Marquis being a Discount Joker), but Wilder will end up smelling like a rose by season's end.

    Sophie: Sophie's on a revenge kick for Jordan, so I guess she will eventually find herself in the crosshairs of the Black Glove Society, and BW will need to sweep in and rescue her, or will she? Since Sophie and Montoya are both hostile to the Bat-gang, I can see Sophie slowly plotting against the Bats not only to obtain a lead to Jada (and punish Wilder for not trusting the former Crow).

    That said, it was nice see Sophie put Montoya i her place; as I've implied before, Montoya is incompetent, since she cannot collect the villain weapons without Alice's help and blackmail.

    ...but before Sophie could appear to be on the right side of things, she leaps back to her revenge obsession and tortures the Virgil, the Black Glove Society member attacked by Ivy-Mary. Sophie chews out Wilder for not informing her about the captive, as she assumes he has a connection to Jada. Nevermind that torture business--on this series, as there are few legal consequences for violent acts, well, where certain characters are committing said violent acts.

    Mary:
    Kidnapping and attempted murder is still...kidnapping and attempted murder, which means Mary should be in jail, but some characters are untouchable. Once again, Alice is the real psychoanalyst among the Bat-gang, as she hit the bullseye pointing out that Mary's become violent due to being rejected and forgettable to--just about anyone else (SEE NOTES).
    Knowing sunlight the trigger for Mary's Ivy behavior, Alice exposes her to enough sunlight to trigger the transformation, leading Ivy-Mary to knock out Luke. Set free by Alice, Ivy-Mary is used as a "torpedo" to lure Montoya into a trap at the botanical gardens. The plan works like a charm, as she confronts Montoya, uses her powers to tie her up in vines--the same tactic she uses against Batwoman & Batwing as they tracked her down.

    BW frees herself, but Luke is injured (surprise, surprise). Ivy-Mary faces off against Luke, whining that being this new identity is being herself and not the Mary no one has time for. She proceeds to mock Luke for his connection to the Lucius A.I., and his alleged PTSD issues.

    BW tires to reason with her, but the self-obsessed Ivy-Mary sends vines to tie up BW again, and vanishes, leaving it up to Montoya (who called the GCPD to the scene) to free the Bats. Accusing the Bats of concealing the fact Mary is a dangerous criminal, it appears her partnership with the Bats has come to an end.

    Montoya: Oh, so now she's panicking for the safety of the city when she believed Ivy is back (or, as it turns out, Mary), yet some of the most dangerous super-villain weapons are out in the wild for anyone to use (including Mr. Freeze's tech, which is--in fact--being actively used and poses a far greater threat than Ivy's plants), but up to this point, she was quite comfortable blackmailing others to do what she cannot.
    ...and her going on and on about her relationship with a criminal....yeah, gotcha, showrunners.

    NOTES:

    The colossal failing of this episode is that the flawed (costumed) heroes of this series have legitimate reasons (from their POV) for tending to their own business and not listening to Mary (long before the Ivy infection), who has proven herself to be an attention-seeking brat time and time again. The Jada issue threatens Wayne Enterprises and Wilder on a personal level (and now Wilder has to deal with Discount Joker); at the same time, Luke tries to find another purpose in life by becoming Batwing, while suffering from the belief that his father--or the A.I.--is judging (read: disappointed) in him. Collectively, they are far greater, pressing issues than everyone running to pat Mary on the head and grin. Having Wilder & Luke blame themselves is yet another example of the showrunners justifying self-obsessive behaviors which are not healthy in real life, but in Berlanti-land, characters trip over themselves to validate those who need to (ultimately) grow up.

    Gee, no one could see Sophie and Montoya's tryst on the horizon. One can only hope someone will turn on the other in the Who-Hates-The-Bats-More Olympiad, so it forces Sophie to earn her alleged loyalty to the Bat-gang.

    Once Alice is apprehended and charged with aiding Ivy-Mary (because there's no way Alice will ever be written out of the series), by all rights, she should be locked in Arkham for the rest of her days, but this series walks on an increasingly frayed high wire where viewership is concerned, so the most popular character on Batwoman will never see any sort of arc that points to her departure.

    Next week:
    the mid-season finale. Early script notes suggested a sub-plot focusing on Luke vs. Mary, but in the wake of his behavior in the coda of this episode, I would be shocked if that still unfolds in any manner that does not end with Luke shrinking away from standing his ground for 60 seconds instead of the usual 90.

    GRADE: C-.
     
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  15. The Habs Fan

    The Habs Fan Commodore Commodore

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    I wonder how Jacob Kane feels now that all 3 of his daughters are or were supervillains?

    A good episode that mostly acts as set up for the mid-season finale. Montoya was a great character to add to this show and Alice keeps making the case for being best current Arrowverse character.
     
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  16. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I never expected to like Batwoman (after looking at the pilot) as much as I do this season. I give kudos to the writers for setting up a conflict between Ryan and Sophie that feels organic and germane to the season, with both of them trying to do right by their loved ones, so it makes them being at logger heads more emotional (for lack of a better word).

    I'm liking Mary's evil turn and how it's allowed the writers to explore many of the ways Mary has been looked over and taken for granted. That's more good writing.

    I liked how Alice protected Mary, but then sided with Sophie. The team up with Evil Mary and Alice might be pushing things a bit, but I'm guessing that Evil Mary will attempt to kill Alice after she no longer is useful. I do wonder why the Bat team can't just track the nanites in Alice's arm though.

    I also thought the Sophie/Montoya hook up worked too, because both of these women have just been put through the wringer and needed some one right then, in that moment. I am surprised, and not that pleased, that Sophie burned Virgil's face like that, but I did like how she blurted out Batwoman's real name as a sign of how emotionally over the edge she was.

    I can't say that I thought Luke was great in this episode. Seems like he would've, or should've known, his suit had been tampered with (but I chalk that up to him being so concerned or distraught over Mary that he was preoccupied). Didn't care for him pleading for his dad though in the middle of a fight, when he was at Mary's mercy. Got to have a stiff upper lip man.

    I am disappointed that they wrote Virgil off. I thought he had the potential to be a nice recurring henchman. I wasn't the biggest fan of the show's origins of The Black Glove Society; if Virgil is to be believed that is. And I have no doubt that's what's intended, so my hopes for Dr. Hurt being on the show I don't see happening now. I also wished that when Ryan said she was calling for help that it would've been STAR Labs, ARGUS, DEO, or Dr. Lynn Stewart, just someone else from the Arrowverse. I also thought Ryan was too cavalier walking through Wayne Enterprises dressed as Batwoman but without her cowl; I think her looseness with her secret identity should come back to bite her at some point (where does she think she is, the MCU?). But otherwise, Javicia Leslie looks great in the suit. I also like her Batmobile. Seems like they've added more Bat flourishes since the season premiere. Evil Mary also looks pretty good, though I wish the car Alice had stolen for them had been green.
     
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  17. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Hmm... There's a gap in Montoya's timeline. She got snatched by the vines before the commercial, then she showed up evidently safe and sound to save Batwoman and -wing. Can Ivy's infection spread to more than one person at a time? Are Mary and Renee both Ivies now? If so, that casts Montoya's hookup with Sophie in a more ominous light. Sophie might end up as part of the Ivy League too. (Heh-heh.)

    Anyway, why won't Ryan just tell Sophie about her brother's condition? It seems like a contrived way to manufacture conflict.

    Gee, what a coinkydink that Gotham City has a domed botanical garden exactly like the ones in National City, Central City, and Time Master Headquarters.


    Yeah, I was skeptical about the contrived plotting of putting Alice on the Bat-team, but it's a chance to let Rachel Skarsten play around, and that's a lot of fun.
     
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  18. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    Especially with nice clean sneakers like that. :)
     
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  19. The Habs Fan

    The Habs Fan Commodore Commodore

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    great observation! Definitely makes sense
     
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  20. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Escaped from Delta Vega
    The problem is that Mary has been--from her introduction on the series--a whining, self-interested brat. That kind of personality does not make others warm up to her, and as I noted above, Luke and Wilder have their own issues to deal with. Mary is supposed to be an adult, yet acts like a middle school teen desperately wanting to be a part of a crowd. One would think that barely-developed medical career would become the driver of her life (remember, she's supposed to be Ms. Mary Do-Gooder of the People, so she should be well-invested in that life), but the "writers" have her moaning about no one giving her the attention she demands (long before the Ivy infection). Poor writing never goes out of fashion on this show, so the heroes are having to deal with a villain who is....needy.

    The only way the dysfunctional / split-teams plot works: Montoya and Sophie work against Wilder and Luke, while Discount Joker Marquis somehow discovers Wilder's other life, is protective of her and steps in to deal with Sophie and Montoya. Frankly, at this point, I would be rooting for Discount Joker to be declared the winner, as this Montoya is nothing like the comic or DCAU versions, instead, most of her dialogue is about her obsession with Ivy, and she's a blackmailer who has barely lifted a finger to do her own job---yet now she's become aggressive with costumed people who could turn the screws on her at any time.

    As for Sophie, she too has become another Mary--angry because Wilder and Luke will not "let her in" on all Bat-business. Why would they? Sophie is an emotional loose cannon and thanks to burning Virgil's face--psychotic. After the end of the Kate storyline, Sophie has little reason to be on this increasingly overpopulated series.

    ...because the plot has not said so yet. Luke is the resident genius, so tracking Alice should have been his first thought, but...

    Well, what can one expect from a showrunner who consistently prevents the one black male from ever standing up, knowing the weight of his own history and as a result, never taking BS from anyone daring to harm him. Nope, he will continue to be the weak black male who has to lick his neverending series of wounds. If written by actual talents, Luke--discovering any tampering with his suit--would be ready to raise Hell against anyone who threatened his life, but all you're likely to get is the same emotional beats of this episode's conclusion: Luke being apologetic for something he did not do.

    Didn't she say she was calling in a favor? If so, that would mean she has some relationship to the person she was going to call, and in Lynn's case, there's no connection at all. Even post CW-Crisis, Luke barely referenced Kate meeting Black Lightning (which was a blink-and-you-missed-it affair) and its doubtful he ever mentioned much of it to Wilder.

    Well, Berlanti series can be just as plot/rational character-deprived as so many MCU films, so Wilder being reckless is just part of business as usual.
     
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