• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Spoilers Batwoman season 3

It makes little sense that Kate would name Wilder and not Luke for the role, but either choice, especially Wilder, should be causing a lot of heartburn for the executives and stockholders at Wayne, but also across the business world. I think the show is missing out on not delving into the business side of the Batman mythos. If nothing else it could get them some cutthroat corporate villains to play around with more than they have.
If you had to pick from the main cast I think Mary would be the more sensible option being Kate's sister and having been raised in that world. That said, if they did use Luke and were serious about it that would open up a lot of story possibilities giving Luke other things to do than to just always be support at beck and call.
 
I liked this episode a good amount. Initially, I was skeptical of the copycat supervillain plot running through this season but judging by the first two episodes it actually seems like a good way to bring the “classic” villains into the Batwoman universe. I also appreciate how they’re wasting no time with the Ryan’s mom plot. Nothing annoys me more than when shows stretch out reveals that the audience already knows but the characters are oblivious to. Looks like we’ll get some answers on that front next week.

About the Ruby Rose thing, I’m sure the truth is somewhere in the middle. It might have been an unsafe workplace, but I do wonder how it compares to any other tv production. Freak accidents do happen. Also, there is no info at all online about a stuntman who’s face melted off. You’d think that would be hard to keep secret. What isn’t a secret is how unliked Ruby Rose was on that set. Even Camrus Johnson tweeted last night against Ruby Rose. I wonder about the timing of all of this since Ruby Rose has been supportive of the show up to last night when she decided to go on her rant.

As far as the show is concerned, Javicia Leslie is a much better actress than Ruby Rose and the show has only improved since she took over IMO
 
It's weird that both of the original Batman rogues so far are said to have been defeated nearly two decades ago, which would've been very early in Batman's career, assuming he's the same mid-40s as Warren Christie. You'd think they would've had longer runs as recurring foes before he brought them down at last, or at least been spaced out more widely.

Having Killer Croc's condition be the result of an infection works to explain how there can be a new version of Croc, but if it's a disease, why aren't there a lot more cases?

Some nice FX work marrying the Wayne balcony set with the Chicago-based cityscape. Those shots really looked impressive.


If you had to pick from the main cast I think Mary would be the more sensible option being Kate's sister and having been raised in that world. That said, if they did use Luke and were serious about it that would open up a lot of story possibilities giving Luke other things to do than to just always be support at beck and call.

That's a good point -- either of them would be a more credible acting CEO. What they said, though, was that Kate arranged it for Bat-purposes; in case Ryan/Batwoman needed to use some Wayne resource in crimefighting, having the carte blanche of the CEO would let her cut through any red tape and get it done quickly. Although there's no reason the same wouldn't be the case with Mary or Luke in the role.
 
Given that the show is called Batwoman the business dealings of Wayne Enterprises are utterly irrelevant to the show.

Secondly the executives and shareholders wouldn't have any worse heartburn with Ryan Wilder as CEO than Bruce Wayne. Hell given some depictions of Wayne she'd be a step up.

In the novel adaption of No Man's Land, there's spot where Bruce realises that his klutz act has been too successful and that no-one took him seriously when lobbying the U.S federal govt to help Gotham.

Totally disagree. Yeah, the series is called Batwoman, a character derived from Batman (Bruce Wayne) and has a Batcave under Wayne Enterprises; further Kate, Bruce's cousin, handed Ryan the CEO job. The business angle already is factoring in in the history between Wayne and Jada Jet. To ignore the business angle (which we've seen used before in animation and movies) leaves off the table opportunities for more conflict, drama, and even villains. It also leaves off Ryan being able to use Wayne Enterprises to greater effect social change and if they delve a bit into how difficult that would be it would add depth to the series.

Mr. Adventure,

I think Luke is the better choice because of his long-standing relationship with Bruce. He has the history and family ties/connections that make him a more credible Wayne CEO.
 
Mr. Adventure,

I think Luke is the better choice because of his long-standing relationship with Bruce. He has the history and family ties/connections that make him a more credible Wayne CEO.

I was thinking Mary might have more business acumen and swagger that I would think of with the position though it's all a little goofy anyway. It's hard to picture Luke hobnobbing with the elites.
 
I hear you, it would seem less weird to me if it was Lucius Fox from the Nolan movies and the way he operated. I'm not opposed to the idea necessarily but it seems out of character though it really is with all of them to some degree.
 
Having Killer Croc's condition be the result of an infection works to explain how there can be a new version of Croc, but if it's a disease, why aren't there a lot more cases?
When Croc first appeared in the comics, he had a simple real-world skin condition that had gone untreated, and so covered his entire body. To compensate, he had trained himself to be the strongest, and best trained fighter he was capable of being. Coupled with a ruthless streak, this made him extremely dangerous. Pre-Crisis, he's the one that killed Jason Todd's parents.
 
Back to the whole Ruby Rose thing, and I apologize to those who don't enjoy the mud slinging, Camrus Johnson said this on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/CamrusJ/status/1451034556996390914
Batfam ya know I couldn’t go the whole day without saying something! I love y’all, don’t think I haven’t seen all the love today. But yea fam, she was fired. And it is VERY hard to be fired when you’re the lead. Imagine what u have to do for that 2 happen

https://twitter.com/CamrusJ/status/1451034558766493698
Since it was claimed she “walked away” last year I’m sure some of you may be pretty confused or upset, and even moreso that a lot of lies were spread today. Just know we have a lot of great souls working on this show and none of this changes that. From the top to the bottom.
 
In addition, a PA on the show backs Warner's version of events:
https://www.cbr.com/batwoman-crew-m...ibution&utm_source=CBR-TW&utm_campaign=CBR-TW
When I first got into the industry, I was very fortunate to get on certain shows like Supergirl, Sabrina, and a few features here in there, but the highlight of my entry to film was Batwoman season one. I was an actor, aspiring to know more about the film industry, and when the job came up I was so excited, being a DC fan and a huge fan of Warner Bros., I jumped at the opportunity.

My philosophy was that I could learn as much as I could on set and then go on to do my own films. Little did I know of the hell that away to me on those sets. The production company was professional, dialed in, and in every way fantastic. The crew was lovely, hard-working and dedicated to countless night shoots, it sounded to be an amazing experience in the making. Then came Ruby Rose. From day one, where her supposed injury stopped her from doing 60% of her job, she began her first day on the show not acknowledging a single crewmember besides anyone above the line. And as the days stretched on, the 18 hour Saturdays for some of us and the crew, things got worse. She showed up late most days, didn’t have her lines memorized, and whenever she interacted with anyone below the line, production assistant, LX crew, grips, it was as though we were beneath her boots. She stormed off set, she yelled at people, and whenever she interacted with any of us production assistants, we were disregarded as the trash we picked up. One day at the studio we spent the entire morning setting up her requested green room (six heaters, because she was used to Australian hot weather, and her table of snacks), only to have her show up, giggle, walk away and say she is good. We chalked it up to another “Ruby is just giving orders for the sake of giving orders moment” and moved on. Then, I was holding a door open for her, after having worked over 15 hours at that point in the freezing cold weather, and she came billowing through the door that I just opened, and she spilt her food. She looked at it, then up at me, and said: “well?” and then stormed off and left me to clean up her mess. That is what it felt like working beneath Ruby: cleaning up her mess. She never thanked us, she only made demands that left us all exhausted emotionally and physically.

She was a dictator to work for, and having been nothing but a production assistant eager to get into the industry, she made me consider quiting. If this was the industry I was going to get into, I sure as hell wasn’t going to work for entitled tyrants. Living downtown, I met one of her close friends on a dating app and he shared with me stories of them partying and getting high on all assortments of drugs, and funnily enough the days where she showed up 8 hours late to set, were the days he spoke about. She didn’t care how long we waited for her and made sure everything was perfect and ready, she just cared about her personal party lifestyle.

We worked countless long days, always going into overtime because she was either late or not off book, or some other reason relating to her not wanting to be there. From the moment we started the show she made every new person that came on uneasy and unsupported. She was a horrible star and made so many of us feel like we were helping make a show for a dictator.

Filmmakers, no matter what position they are on a film set deserve to be treated with respect. That’s how I was taught growing up and in film school, and when I read her article claiming that the production was at fault, it infuriated me because having been there, I don’t wanna stand by and let her badmouth a company that she tried to screw over. No matter how bad your day, you have no right to be cruel. And season 1 was her reign of cruelty.
 
Given that the show is called Batwoman the business dealings of Wayne Enterprises are utterly irrelevant to the show.

If so, then any Wayne Enterprises references would not have been a part of the sub-plots and Kate story of season one. Batwoman the TV series does not exist in a vacuum; ultimately its a piggyback character borrowing, referencing or mirroring a number of Batman characters and/or storylines. TV Batwoman does not have some rich history or legacy characters and from the start, Kate's trip into Bat-land was her relationship to Bruce Wayne, his associate (Luke) and his company. Without any of it, there's no foundation for this series, so the aforementioned elements-including Wayne Enterprises--are relevant.
 
I hate it that this has happened. I'm torn. On the one hand, I want to believe that the producers of the show are not abusing their employees or making the set hellish. On the other hand, if Rose is lying, it makes it easier for people to dismiss other women's allegations of abuse by the powerful, allegations that are usually true and should be taken seriously. Plus I liked Rose as a performer, so it's sad if she's as unprofessional and screwed-up as people are now alleging. So either way, it's a bad situation.
 
Totally disagree. Yeah, the series is called Batwoman, a character derived from Batman (Bruce Wayne) and has a Batcave under Wayne Enterprises

This. As mentioned above, TV Batwoman does not exist in a vacuum, nor was it ever going to stand on its own as if it has a deep history to adapt without anything taken from Batman. Some have this notion that Batwoman is a stand-alone character, but the series renders that claim as false.

I think Luke is the better choice because of his long-standing relationship with Bruce. He has the history and family ties/connections that make him a more credible Wayne CEO.

Of course Luke would be the better choice--in fact, hfor the reason you note, he's the only choice. He has an intimate working knowledge of the company--more than someone who knows nothing (Wilder) about the company, its problems, Bruce's business dealings or its Bat-connections. But that's not going to happen on a series where the most logical choice for leadership in many departments is pushed to the back--the conscious plan and work of Caroline Dries.

Luke grew up with them.

Again, this.
 
This. As mentioned above, TV Batwoman does not exist in a vacuum, nor was it ever going to stand on its own as if it has a deep history to adapt without anything taken from Batman. Some have this notion that Batwoman is a stand-alone character, but the series renders that claim as false.



Of course Luke would be the better choice--in fact, hfor the reason you note, he's the only choice. He has an intimate working knowledge of the company--more than someone who knows nothing (Wilder) about the company, its problems, Bruce's business dealings or its Bat-connections. But that's not going to happen on a series where the most logical choice for leadership in many departments is pushed to the back--the conscious plan and work of Caroline Dries.



Again, this.

Yeah, when you look at the comics' history of the character as well, Batwoman wouldn't exist without Batman, with her original start as a Bruce love-interest and today she has been reimagined as Bruce's cousin. As for the series, Kate basically has Bruce's suit, his protégé/friend in Luke, and his toys. I'm far from a devoted diehard Batwoman viewer so I don't know what particular to Kate Kane/Batwoman that the show has done outside of some of the villains, and it appears that in the third season they are leaning heavy on Batman's rogues gallery.

Wilder started off being a little different, in terms of being derived from Kane, with her origin tied to Alice, Kate Batwoman's archenemy. But she's also now got the Batmobile, the CEO job at Wayne, and will spend a good deal of the season fighting Batman's villains. They've also bought on Montoya and even her mother, Jada Jet, has to be inspired by the Bat villain Jezebel Jet.

When it comes to the Batman/Batwoman mythos, I think the race change, as best symbolized by the change in her wig is big in a symbolic way, but I got a feeling the series' writing is going to drain away those differences, and the different perspectives or approaches they can bring, out. I got a feeling they are going to take away her working class perspective, outside of a speech or line of dialogue every once in a while, and basically turn her into another Kate or Oliver Queen in terms of having a privileged background. She might mention 'black' or 'black woman' every now and then, same with 'the poor' or 'disadvantaged' but the series isn't going to go into depth exploring those aspects of her character much more than they already have IMO.

It didn't have to be that way, they could explore those issues and create challenges from those issues, they could create more original supporting characters and new villains for Wilder to fight, or poach them from different rogues' galleries, and not just Batman's. But Batman and his villains are very popular so it makes sense to not just go back to that well, but to live inside it.
 
Last edited:
I hate it that this has happened. I'm torn. On the one hand, I want to believe that the producers of the show are not abusing their employees or making the set hellish. On the other hand, if Rose is lying, it makes it easier for people to dismiss other women's allegations of abuse by the powerful, allegations that are usually true and should be taken seriously. Plus I liked Rose as a performer, so it's sad if she's as unprofessional and screwed-up as people are now alleging. So either way, it's a bad situation.
Ditto. I know Hollywood (even the northern outpost in Vancouver) has a terrible track record in how they treat crew (as IATSE has made clear) and female actors. BUT, there have been indications from the beginning that Rose was in over her head. It's just ugly all around. :sigh:

Wilder started off being a little different, in terms of being derived from Kane, with her origin tied to Alice, Kate Batwoman's archenemy. But she's also now got the Batmobile, the CEO job at Wayne, and will spend a good deal of the season fighting Batman's villains. They've also bought on Montoya and even her mother, Jada Jet, has to be inspired by the Bat villain Jezebel Jet.

When it comes to the Batman/Batwoman mythos, I think the race change, as best symbolized by the change in her wig is big in a symbolic way, but I got a feeling the series' writing is going to drain away those differences, and the different perspectives or approaches they can bring, out. I got a feeling they are going to take away her working class perspective, outside of a speech or line of dialogue every once in a while, and basically turn her into another Kate or Oliver Queen in terms of having a privileged background. She might mention 'black' or 'black woman' every now and then, same with 'the poor' or 'disadvantaged' but the series isn't going to go into depth exploring those aspects of her character much more than they already have IMO.

It didn't have to be that way, they could explore those issues and create challenges from those issues, they could create more original supporting characters and new villains for Wilder to fight, or poach them from different rogues' galleries, and not just Batman's. But Batman and his villains are very popular so it makes sense to not just go back to that well, but to live inside it.
I thought "Jada Jet" sounded like a comic book name! Yes, I think you're right on that one.

Javica said some things in a recent interview that give me hope they will explore some of these issues:

“I think it can be very complicated, when you’ve struggled your entire life, and then come to find out your mother is one of the wealthiest people in Gotham,” Javicia Leslie says concerning the dichotomy between Ryan and Jada. “In any version of Gotham—there has to exist the upper-class and the lower-class. That’s what makes Gotham Gotham, because there is really no middle class. There is just this vast difference between the haves and the have-nots. I think that for Ryan’s entire life to exist as a, quote unquote have-not, but to know that her mother is now leading the haves, to know Jada Jet is one of them and that’s her bloodline. It has to be heartbreaking, infuriating, frustrating, all of that.”​
 
I don't like the idea of Ryan being the daughter of a billionaire. I mean, we've already had Batman and the first Batwoman come from the One Percent, or even the 0.1 Percent, so it feels kind of elitist to reveal that our working-class Batwoman is essentially the long-lost heir to the throne who was raised as a peasant. Even if she rejects that life, the fact that she's from that heritage implies that the rich are the only people who get to be special or the center of attention, and that undermines what made Ryan distinct from her predecessor.
 
I dig. It's like midichlorians. :ouch:

No, more like Episode IX's retcon of Rey's parentage. I like the idea of midi-chlorians, a very clever analogy with mitochondria, which has gotten a bum rap by people who don't understand the Eastern concept of the physical and spiritual being one and the same.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top