Spoilers Batwoman - Season 2

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by dahj, Dec 9, 2020.

  1. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Don't know anything about Jezebel Jet, but from the description of the character on EW she sounds nothing like Fish Mooney.
     
  2. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    The character is called Jada Jet. Not sure if they intend her to be a version of Jezebel or connected to her in some way, or if it's just a coincidence.
     
  3. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I know, but the other poster was wondering if she was a reference to Fish Mooney and Jezebel Jett.
     
  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Weird that they'd even think of Fish Mooney, but I guess it underlines how few black female characters there are in the Batman mythos.
     
  5. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Its not so weird to think about Jada Pinkett Smith, when Confronted by a character called Jada Jet.
     
  6. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    Sounds to me like Montoya is treading ground that could've been covered with using Sophie
     
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  7. Roundabout

    Roundabout Commander Red Shirt

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    I, too, enjoyed this past season, even though it wasn't as good as season one. Season 2 had a different vibe. Obviously, the recast had a major effect. I really liked Ruby Rose as Kate Kane/Batwoman.

    Ruby Rose's KK/BW was chic and upscale. I thought Javicia Leslie's RW/BW had more of a blue collar persona. She came across as humble but also kind of plain. Aside from that, RR just had a stronger presence, imo, which is more in line with being a superhero. Even Wallis Day, from the limited time she was on the show (and I do remember her in Krypton), seemed to have a stronger presence, particularly when she was side by side with JL.


    I didn't keep up with the behind-the-scenes news of the show, so I had no idea that RR was replaced by JL.

    As I was watching "Whatever Happened to Kate Kane?", I kept thinking that it is so bizarre that the writers' came up with this particular story for the season premiere, where some never-before-heard of character was filling in for Batwoman. So during the episode, I googled for info about the show, and that was when I learned that RR was no longer with the show. I was shocked.

    On the matter of Alice, as much as I like watching the Alice character with her bat sh*t craziness and whimsy, maybe her story arc has run its course, especially since Kate and Jacob Kane are no longer around. The Kane family connection to Ryan's Batwoman is not there going forward. If Alice is back next season, I hope the writers' come up with some credible story for her to be around.
     
  8. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I wasn't suggesting that Jada Jet would be like Fish Mooney (outside of maybe being a villain), but that her first name might have been an homage to Jada Pinkett-Smith who played Fish Mooney, a neat little Easter Egg or in-joke. But the character description does fit the Jezebel Jet character more, however, it appears that Jada Jet won't be as villainous (seems like her son Marquis might fit that bill; can't think of any Bat analogue to him); then again Jezebel Jet started off seemingly innocent as well.

    Christopher makes an excellent point about the lack of black female characters in the Bat mythos. And the few there are don't get as much attention and development as they deserve. In some 80 years Ryan Wilder is the biggest black female character yet.
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Word play.

    What if the Question was Questioning?

    Her superhero costume is a man's suit.

    Which might position her as gender queer or transgender.
     
  10. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Googling the Question and seeing Montoya mentioned, I assume that's the impetus of that line of thought? Maybe, why not? They've played a little bit with that (ridiculously named) Wolf Spider.

    What I've noticed is that JL carries herself in a softer way as Ryan, she seems more like someone you see in everyday life than the impeccably coifed and model-type features of the others. When she puts on the batsuit she doesn't project a different hero persona or carry herself differently so it's more sassy Ryan wearing an outfit rather than "becoming" Batwoman. Being generous and assuming it's intentional maybe it's to make her more relatable as one of the people, perhaps befitting the character more than being imposing or striking.
     
  11. Marc

    Marc Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Hasn't Batman been portrayed in the comics in a similar vein to how Ryan is a Batwoman i.e not the hard edge "becoming" Batman that I gather is the more modern portrayal of the character.
     
  12. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Comparing Rose and Leslie, I prefer Leslie's Wilder over Rose's Kane. Rose came across too stiff for me. I think she's good at the physical acting part (I bought into her whenever she was in the suit), but the few times I looked at Batwoman during Rose's time, I never warmed to her character. I thought she did better in the crossover when she teamed with Supergirl; she had good chemistry with Melissa Benoist.

    Leslie's Wilder, perhaps by design, has more personality, and therefore a bit more relatable. I don't think the writing has necessarily served either actress or their characters well to be fair to them both.

    To the showrunner/writer's credit it would make sense to differentiate Kate and Ryan personality and approach wise. Kate comes from money and already has a soldiering background, whereas Ryan survived poverty and the prison system. Those experiences, as well as race, opens the door to have two very different characters that would approach the role differently, making for some interesting stories. And it would definitely let the audience know that Wilder is not a Kane clone, and that might prevent unfair or unnecessary comparisons between the two characters/actresses, or gripes that Ryan is just a fake Kate.
     
  13. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, OK. I thought you were saying she was going to be a combination of the two characters.
     
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  14. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    All true--season one had built Kate's arc--particularly her relationship with Jacob--which was set to continue. Any competent writer would have recast Kate and continued on from there, but the showrunners knew they had been irresponsible in the Rose stunt matter--add to that the fact Rose had been accepted in the role, so her leaving made Dries, et al., paranoid...desperate to not just replace Rose, but cough up some asinine story involving memory loss, brainwashing and burns. They would have had an easier time just saying Kate was kidnapped by aliens and replaced with an awkward double in the manner of the sitcom Soap (ABC, 1977-81). It would have been more believable than the entire Roman / Safiyah plot.

    That's the problem: inventing a BS reason for Alice to have any continuing connection to Wilder (and the series, for that matter) which is not only forced, but gives Alice no plot of her own, and typical of this series, Alice never pays any real legal consequences for her murders and terrorism. Its just back to Arkham, when anyone guilty of such premeditated crimes would have their day in court and probably end up on death row. Can't have that kind of grim end for Alice, so sayeth Dries.

    ...because from the moment of Wilder's introduction, her birth mother existing was never a part of Wilder's story or implied to be the source of Wilder's development or perspective on the world--only the woman she saw as her mother, the one who had been killed by Alice, leading Wilder to express her thoughts by speaking to that mother (through the potted Desert Rose).

    No. He is irrelevant to the degree that there's no interest in him even as a reference to Wilder's development



    ...and the success of Black Lightning having so many well-crafted black characters has everything to do with its real creators, which do not share names with anyone responsible for the other Arrowverse series, which all employ the White Liberal habit of black tokenism in one way or another.

    For Batwoman to have the sociopolitical strength and depth of Black Lightning or Luke Cage, the production would need a housecleaning of everyone behind the scenes--starting with the black- disinterested Caroline Dries.
     
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  15. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    I would've liked it if Ryan's inexperience added more to the stories than some yuks and that they let her make some mistakes and get called out for them on occasion. Perhaps they were being defensive with her being Kate's replacement to show her as less than competent but I think there were some missed opportunities there. Being a non-powered character I think they could've done more with her and Luke needing each other's skillsets to get the job done. Between Ryan's physical skills, Luke's technical ability and Mary's medical knowledge the pieces are there to have a team with distinct roles that really feed into each other.
     
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  16. Marc

    Marc Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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  17. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Worf in the 23rd Century Premium Member

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  18. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Yeah, we knew about the latex allergy before.
     
  19. Aragorn

    Aragorn Admiral Admiral

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  20. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Commodore Commodore

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    I barely watched Gotham but very supportive of the idea of this. Meaning having actors and actresses reprising a role they previously played before. There are so many DC films and tv shows being made now. Often with supporting characters in brief appearances. There is a huge benefit of using the same person even if it’s different continuity . More about consistency. Especially if it’s not a major re- conceptIon of the character. Which would suggest using different performers.

    Before this news I was hoping they bring back Peyton List if the show uses Poison Ivy.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021