Bad world building of Enterprise

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by Soong-type Android, Apr 20, 2019.

  1. Tribble Threat

    Tribble Threat Commander Red Shirt

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    How would you propose making 6 months of a season of Star Trek interesting, without anyone going to space? What stories would be told in their place?
     
  2. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Commander Red Shirt

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    Depends if it means literally not going into space, or if it means not exploring beyond the solar system. I think a mix of the two would be best; some character remain on Earth (or close proximity to it), while others visit Mars, Jupiter Station, etc.

    I would focus on developing characters and rely on developed human history within Star Trek in the 21st and 22nd century to create a context for which ENT would be set in, and to create a universe of its own.

    - Develop and explore relationships of the crew (family, friends, romantic, mentors, ect.)

    - General life on Earth (movies, sports, academics, nightlife, religion, hunting, recreation, orbital skydiving, labour, agriculture, etc)

    - Explore the United Earth structure and the relation of each wing to each other/how they came to be:
    - exploration wing – Starfleet Command & UESPA
    - military wing – United Earth Stellar Navy & MACO
    - trade wing - Earth Cargo Authority and Earth Cargo Service
    - diplomacy wing - United Earth Diplomatic Corps.
    - media wing – United Earth News Service
    - intelligence wing – Starfleet Intelligence
    - legal wing – Starfleet Law, Starfleet Security, United Earth legal system

    - How the newly formed United Earth world government (formed 2150) is working out.

    - Have the crew learn about the NX-01 and test out the transporter, plasma cannons, spatial torpedoes, and the new handphasers; show their fears and varying philosophies i.e. pacifism

    - Show general Starfleet training exercises/ let them guest instruct a class

    - Explore Mayweather’s knowledge of space far more, and compare it with Vulcans and Starfleet admirals. And keep it in the original script that he visited Andoria. Would make future interactions more interesting.

    - Explore Vulcan High Command relationship with Earth/ how Vulcan customs and traditions are received on Earth.

    - For that matter, explore how Denobulans, Deltans, Draylaxians, and maybe Trills are received on Earth. And how they feel about Vulcan influence on other worlds. Basically, let them be alien to Earth.

    - Early Terra Prime

    - Explore early resentment of Starfleet from other humans that also resent Terra Prime

    - Explore various aspects of 22nd century history (Martian colonies/Fundamental Declaration of the Martian Colonies, urban legend of Redjac, preparation for Genome Colony, colonization of Deneva, Emmette-type ships, various DY-class ships and their colonization missions, various ship designations (USS, SS, HMS,VK, DEV; why they are still in use when Starfleet exists), USS Enterprise XCV-330 and other early Earth ships, the European Hegemony, Giuseppina Pentangeli or alternatively her early rise to fame as a soprano, Liam Dieghan’s Neo-Transcendentalist movement, ubiquity of space piracy)

    - Explore the impact of the 21st century on mid-22nd century Earth (Eastern Coalition, post-atomic horror/”kill all the lawyers”, where/if the stockpiled nuclear weapon (which would be of relevance by the time of the Romulan War arc), Colonel Green, Earth-Kzin Wars, various extinctions on Earth, ozone depletion and subsequent UV radiation, Sanctuary Districts and the Bell Riots, Nomad/Charybdis/Aries IV/Friendship One/manned mission to Saturn, sleeper ships, colonization of Terra 10/interstat code becoming outdated, the new shuttle shown in the show opening, various advances in medicine, the New United Nations, development of hovercars, 52 American states, the 2047 Los Angeles earthquake, the end of television)

    It’s a lot of reliance on developed human history within Star Trek (TOS/TAS/TNG/DS9/VOY), but also allows for the perspective of those living in the 22nd century, who would be the most impacted immediate by these events and developments. And it helps that the show initially didn’t have Star Trek in the title, allowing for an Earth-focused show in the beginning.

    It would basically be DS9, but on Earth and more human centric. Afterwards – when the NX-01 launches midway through S1 – the show can become more TOS-like over time, with the embrace of cowboy diplomacy, but with relationships and character development to build on for future seasons.
     
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  3. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Likely Spock would have considered the NX-01 to have been a "primitive space vessel." The starships built for the Romulan war were probably the next generation of technology beyond the NX-01, optimized for war.

    And Earth switched from what they were using to "atomic weapons" because these were more powerful than the obviously low powered warheads the NX-01 was using.
     
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  4. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I didn't see anything in the NX-01 that was any less primitive than what I saw on Voyager, other than the maximum warp speed. And even that is a nonsequitor, as ships always move at the speed of the plot.
     
  5. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Commander Red Shirt

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    Don’t forget that the various starships types, cargo vessels, DY-classes, and the transport that the Borg stole would also be considered primitive vessels, since they don’t go any faster than warp 1.5-2. And we never did learn what was the top speed for the 22nd century Romulan Bird of Prey seen in “Minefield.” Those vessels might have topped out at warp 2 themselves. Or if they may have been an older design while the next line of BoPs (with the signature bird graphic on its bottom hull) was about to be launched.

    And those spatial torpedoes the NX-01 had seemed like they could carry an atomic payload.

    Well, the damage sustained during the Azati Prime battle suggests otherwise. That would never happen to Voyager, outside Year of Hell.

    A lot of NX-01 visually looking advanced is simply aesthetics. If the NX-01 was painted to be like the TOS Enterprise or an Earth spaceshuttle with the Starfleet graphic on its top hull, it would have helped with the presentation of it being a more primitive Earth vessel. The deflector dish didn’t help matters either. It help make the ship look more advanced and state of the art than its should be. It should have been more like TOS, or not even exist at all.

    The interior of the NX-01 is fine. A mix of sliding doors and doors with hinges makes sense, as did the engineering section and the bridge.
     
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  6. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    well for asthetics, it did have the appropriate" Clostrophobic" feel like a larger submarine. But you can't just toss out what advancements have been made since the 60's.. so the monitors, etc felt right. Now the ship? looks like a saucer.. yes I would have prefered a Daedalus class asthetic. but I don't make the decisions.. :)
    Weapons, phasers? nope.. lasers would have worked, or plasma bolts like B5 or something..
    Torpedos? maybe haven't miniturized the antimatter containment for photon torpedoes, so some other type of torpedoes, maybe nuclear.
    So, lasers, and conventianal torpedoes, with hull armour, or some weak shields.. I mean, we would have gotten some help from the Vulcans, not engines, but a primitive shields, or navigational deflectors.. something for the safety of the ship and crew..
    communications, would have been fun for Lightspeed comunications or low power sub space.. not any real time comunications with Earth from 100 ly away..
     
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  7. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Commander Red Shirt

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    @valkyrie013

    A sphere instead of a saucer would have made more sense, wouldn’t it?

    They did have plasma bolts in the beginning. “Fortunate Son” is the best representation of that. It isn’t seen again until IAMD Part 1, as they transitioned to a phase cannon that wasn't even power enough when first used. At least the phase cannon looked primitive enough when it was shown on screen.

    I think they only got antimatter torpedoes to keep pace with other species. I personally preferred the spatial torpedoes though.

    The grappler made sense. They got that right.

    Polarized hull was their shield. They got that right too.

    The transporter…should have had a yellow hue like in TOS, instead of the blue hue between TMP and VOY, and now PIC.
     
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  8. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Of course not, because Voyager could get shot to hell every week, but at the start of the next episode it would miraculously be pristine again. And that's even without any starbase to dock at for repairs.
     
  9. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    Nothing? I seem to remember that grappling hook they had to shoot like an harpoon and that missed quite often...

    But yeah, in general a lot of technologies looked rather similar, just with slightly altered names.
     
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  10. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I’ll give you that one :)
     
  11. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Commander Red Shirt

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    It there was any flaw to the technologies used in ENT, its not just that they didn’t look primitive enough, its that they didn’t embrace TOS more. They emulated the TNG/DS9/VOY era.

    The NX-01 phase cannon stream should have been upgraded to blue by the same contractors responsible for the MACOs weapons, as could have the plasma bolts/pulse phasers, during the Xindi crisis. The photonic torpedoes could have been blue to distinguish them from the photon torpedoes of the 24th century as well. The shuttlepods could keep the reddish stream they had.

    The phase pistol – should have been green for stun, as something the Vulcans pushed onto them, and reddish for kill, to represent primitive human behaviour.

    If the NX-Refit happened, they could have removed the blue deflector dish as well, as the NX-01 would have had the TOS deflector dish instead.

    But other tech did made sense. Quantum beacon made sense for discovering smaller cloaked ships (i.e. Suliban) and mines, but not a Romulan ship. The grappler made sense too. As did docking clamps.

    I also find it interesting most of our criticisms in regards to whether or not a ship is primitive is directed at the NX-01. There are no concerns with say, a Romulan Drone ship, or a Romulan BoP having cloaks during this time.
     
  12. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well, Enterprise established that we were kind of the late bloomers of the alpha quadrant, that the Vulcans and Andorians and Tellerites and Klingons have been going around for years, some century's..
    and honestly, the NX class is a 100 years after the Pheonix.. there Has to be some type of technology progression.. you have the warp 2 cargo haulers, getting rides on vulcan ships
     
  13. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Huh? There were all kinds of criticisms about those things. For the drone ship, it was that it was just an alien ship of the week from Voyager painted green with sensors added. And for the BoP, not only did it have nacelles that looked like they came off of a Jem’Hadar ship, it had cloaking technology that wasn’t even necessary to the plot of the episode it was featured in.
     
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  14. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Commander Red Shirt

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    Really, I didn't know that. I've always hear of criticism towards the NX-01 only.

    The BoP using the sensors instead would have made more sense, I think, as an attempt for the Romulans to find an alterative to the cloaking technology. Could have still kept the Aenar aspect and the drone ship interior as well.

    Reusing an old model from Voyager was unnecessary when they had a BoP model in ENT right there.
     
  15. AresB

    AresB Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Doug Drexler planned to keep the primary hull deflector, because the ship was supposed to be able to ditch the secondary hull and return to its primary configuration in case the Warp 7 engine suffered catastrophic failure.
    Also, perhaps having two deflectors wasn't only for the TNG era ships. I don't know how official it is, but in many blueprints over the 'net, those three red round lights in front of the NCC-1701 saucer are marked to be an auxiliary deflector system.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2020
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  16. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Don't get over to the Discovery forum much apparently.
     
  17. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Commander Red Shirt

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    Didn't know Discovery was set in the 22nd century, pre-Federation. I thought it was set in the 23rd and 31st centuries.
     
  18. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't know why they didn't use it either, especially since they mention in dialogue that the drone ship was a modified warbird.

    That's doubtful, since the three lights weren't even remotely as large as that diagram shows. And they weren't red.
     
  19. AresB

    AresB Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Sorry, meant to write "round" but my fingers seem to have mind of their own. Size matters not.
     
  20. AresB

    AresB Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    The writer thought first of a modified BoP, but the producers wanted a unique looking ship that was bristling with the holotech devices and antennas. And who would remember an obscure model that appeared very briefly in a VOY episode years ago? ;)
    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Romulan_drone_ship
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2020