Would it have been possible for the Klingons and Romulans to swap roles in TNG?

[UssGlenn]

The Klingons in TOS weren't usually the nicest of people, but I think Kor and Koloth had some style. Kang actually approaches the TNG version of the Klingons.

I always thought the memorable scene of Kor saying the battle would be glorious had a big influence on the later development of the Klingons.

 

[MurphyCooper]

I guess you are postulating yet another Alternate Universe. I think that vessel has long departed Spacedock.

That is the entire point of the thread, and the question I asked, yes. I am interested in discussing that alternate concept, not their canon characterizations. Perhaps I could have been more clear in my initial post.

 

[Crumpets]

I liked the idea of the Romulans being a main threat for federation at this time. They were intelligent and ambitious. Maybe a good heel for Picard. Klingon's are good thugs but maybe not super scheming?

 

[Crumpets]

Of course, Yesterday's Enterprise gives a snapshot of an agressive Klingon Empire. Is there a lot of meat on the bone to write about?

 

[Therin of Andor]

Could you remind me when?

I guess my view is coloured by the fanzine stories of the day, TAS's "The Practical Joker", and novels like Diane Duane's Rihannsu saga, one of which was even called "Honor Blade". But my lasting memory is of Romulans being associated with honour. When I read "Return to Genesis" and the first draft of ST III, which involved a stolen Romulan Bird of Prey and all that dialogue about honor and Klingon pirates.

It then was quite jarring to me when the Klingons of TNG were suddenly taking about honor. That is my perception. Obviously not yours.

While this doesn't answer your questions, I did find my old blog entry about the FIRST DRAFT script that I own of "ST III: The Search for Spock", dated March 23, 1983 -- well after the Romulan crew of "Return to Genesis" had officially morphed into a Klingon crew.

Mr Bennett has this to say about TMP and ST III's controversial makeup change to the Klingons from their TOS and TAS days:

"Present are the 1ST LORD of the Klingons, and his command staff. The variety of Klingons will be fully explored. Elders have been seen in STAR TREK I. Forehead bumps are marks of age and wisdom, not common. What is common is that they are a dark race of large and frightening appearance."

The "elderly" Klingon idea has obviously been nixed by the REV. FINAL DRAFT script of September 13, 1983, because Valkris wears a half-veil to hide her own forehead bumps from the Merchantman crew, and Captain Kruge is described as a "handsome but frightening presence, and relative youth".

(Since those early days, of course, we've seen Alexander, Worf's son in "The Next Generation" series, as a toddler with a matching bumpy forehead to his Dad's. Then we had Worf's enigmatic comment in DS9's "Trials and Tribble-ations", and a two-part explanatory episode about the origins of smooth-foreheaded Klingons in "Star Trek: Enterprise".)

The early script also specifies a flotilla of Klingon heavy cruisers, and Kruge's cloakable Romulan Bird of Prey that "Trek buffs will recognize" from its "distinctive bird & wing motif". After they watch the Bird of Prey turn visible, the script goes on:

1ST LORD: What is this? None of you knew?
3RD LORD (hastily): It is his toy, sir. A Romulan prize. He has perfected their Cloaking Device.
1ST LORD: Commander Kruge, I want you here... Now!
INT. BIRD OF PREY BRIDGE - ON KRUGE
KRUGE: Always your servant, my Lord.
(He turns and CAMERA reveals his CREW, the most awesome collection of large, cruel and piratical men since the Pittsburgh Steelers of the Seventies. We will see more of them later.)
KRUGE: Well, my jolly lads, a few more triumphs like this and we'll all be back in prison.
(then turning)
Try to behave yourselves while I'm gone.

My take on it all at the time? I reckoned that this Kruge probably should have had a Klingon parrot on his shoulder (but perhaps the lizard/dog from the REV. FINAL script ate it?)

A major character difference is the addition of vulcanoid (Romulan?) defector, Galt, who essentially fills the role taken by Maltz the Klingon in the final film. Galt is actually welcomed back to Vulcan by Sarek at the end of the movie.

Towards the end, instead of the REV. FINAL DRAFT and FINAL SHOOTING script version of Kirk saying to Kruge, "I... have had... enough... of you!" the FIRST DRAFT script has Kruge saying, "The last face you see, Kirk. The last face you ever see."

He then grabs Kirk in a choke hold, they struggle, and Kirk seems doomed -- but when the zombie-like Spock grabs Kruge from behind, Kirk is able to break free, retrieve the Klingon dagger and throw it into Kruge's back. Then he asks Galt to beam them up, abandoning several other remaining Klingons to their fate on the doomed Genesis.

 

[Tosk]

...but in terms of Romulans actually claiming to have an honor code on-screen in TOS, I'm not forgetting something obvious?

 

[Mudd]

Yes.

 

[Captrek]

The swap came in TWOK. The Kobayashi Maru is scenario is taken right from The Deadly Years, even the same location, but the Romulans have turned into Klingons.

 

[Set Harth]

Complete with their own neutral zone.

 

[SteveJRogers]

The swap came in TWOK. The Kobayashi Maru is scenario is taken right from The Deadly Years, even the same location, but the Romulans have turned into Klingons.

No, its the cloud attacking Klingons at the start of TMP.

Would Romulans ever send torpedos into a cloud without some investigating first?

What if the thing inside the cloud was able to ricochet the firepower right back at its attacker?

 

[Uxi]

Their honor was to other Romulans, not to less-honorable alien races. They would not consider themselves to be sneaky.

Yeah though TOS Klingons didn't even have that. They were vile. Even Kang was the best of them and perfectly willing to turn off life support on the bridge rather than fight. Kor was trying to massacre hundreds of Organians at a time without any combat and thought he was succeeding. Koloth was trying to poison the planet and would have if the Tribbles hadn't eaten the poisoned grain instead...

Kruge was right in line with them, too.

 

[CetiAlphanEel]

The Romulans are better villains than the Klingons imo so I like what TNG went with

 

[Crewman6]

The whole idea of having Worf as a crewmember came from TOS's "Errand of Mercy" where it was predicted that humans and Klingons would end up as allies. Despite Roddenberry not wanting Klingons on the show at all (or Romulans for that matter, as he did not want to revisit aliens from TOS because he envisioned TNG as a reboot, not a sequel), the prevailing attitude was that the Klingons were now our friends, and the Romulans were still the bad guys.

Now with that said, the actual portrayal of the Klingons and Romulans in TNG were actually direct opposites of how they were portrayed in TOS. TOS Klingons seemed to have no concept of honor at all, while the Romulans seemed to have plenty. That dynamic arguably got reversed in TNG, as those Klingons were influenced by Ron Moore reading an old Trek novel about Klingons where the concept of them having an honor code was first conceptualized. And the Romulans ended up being the underhanded fascistic Soviet-analogues that the TOS Klingons used to be.

Romulans weren't even considered (were going to be left alone, as per Gene's edicts), but after the Ferengi crashed so hard in Season 1, they realized they needed a better villain, hence the Romulans arrive at the very tail end of S1.