I did think it was a bit of a storytelling weakness that for the most part we're told but not shown the efforts to recruit the First Ones. Granted it leads to a greater feeling of surprise when we get to see them in "Into the Fire", but making all this noise about finding them without really showing anyone trying to do so is a little problematic.
Babylon 5
- Thread starter Kail
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It's like trying to find some holy grail when it exists on a different plain of existence, such as sailing west from Middle-earth to Valinor after it was removed from the mortal plain of existence. Actually showing how to get there makes it too ordinary because, generally speaking, we don't do a good job of depicting the unimaginable believably. Too often, it's fade-to-white magic representing a dumb abstraction to omit the depiction, and a cheat. So how to depict finding the First Ones without demeaning the search and making them ordinary?
Aw, you just have to taunt them properly, then they'll come
In Voices Of Authority it was more amusement from their part. That these "ants" are getting into their faces and trying to hurt their ego through the Vorlons seemed to be funny to them. Which is why they said yeah and most likely thought that what the hell, just for fun let's do this. You can probably find the original JMS' quote about this from Lurker's Guide.
Been a while since I've been there though it almost used to be my home away from home back in the day
Who knew they were French?
Showing each and every First One contact would have been massively redundant. The point of showing the walkers of Sigma 957 was to show just how elusive, aloof and alien they were (even compared to other aliens.) Once Lorien was on board neither finding nor convincing them was an issue any longer. Besides, they had so save a little something that was visually new for the last battle otherwise it'd feel a little needlessly drawn out.
The CGI was created with Amiga home computers as a render farm using Lightwave (same as with the Seaquest DSV series). I loved this because I had several of these machines at the house and they really could do a great job with ray traced animation if you were patient). B-5 also was very creative with set design and making the most of every little thing.
Pretty sure the ad-hoc Amiga render farm (cohabiting with housebroken bunnies IIRC) was only used for the pilot movie. When they went to series they got some more serious hardware and actual office space. Still very low budget though, comparatively speaking.
And yet for $5,000 dollars, Warner's would not let Eden FX have a 16:9 NTSC monitor for doing the CGI in 16:9. And yet Eden's version of Lightwave featured a 4:3/16:9 switch.
Yeah the Telepath War/First Year of the Alliance stories really didn't do much for me, as they had kind of been forced to use up the A-plot arc of the Earth civil war, because they didn't know that they were getting a fifth season. Had Season 4 just been about the Shadow War, then the Telepath War/Beginning of the Alliance arcs would've been B-lines to the Earth Civil War arc.
IIRC it wasn't WB's decision but Doug Netters'. Penny wise, pound foolish it seems.
If I remember it right, JMS didn't even hear about this until years after the fact and was not impressed. I think he said something to the effect of had he known, he'd have payed for it out of his own pocket if necessary.
It's been a long time since I saw Thirdspace. I'm seeing stuff in wiki and elsewhere online saying the thirdspace aliens once actually mind-dominated some Vorlons. I don't remember that from the movie being explicitly said anywhere. Does anyone recall for sure? Not books, just the movie.
Anyway, I wish more had been done with them than just that movie. Some flashback scenes of their first incursion would have been great. I mean them breaking through/coming through the gate, encounters with different First Ones, mind-controlling Vorlons (wow!), their eventual ejection by the Vorlons shutting down the gate (how did that work again, I mean that first casting out?). Thirdspace aliens having first meetings with the Shadows...possible thirdspace/Shadow alliance (yah that'll last long but would be fun).
Might have to do a rewatch. Well what the hey.
Anyway, I wish more had been done with them than just that movie. Some flashback scenes of their first incursion would have been great. I mean them breaking through/coming through the gate, encounters with different First Ones, mind-controlling Vorlons (wow!), their eventual ejection by the Vorlons shutting down the gate (how did that work again, I mean that first casting out?). Thirdspace aliens having first meetings with the Shadows...possible thirdspace/Shadow alliance (yah that'll last long but would be fun).
Might have to do a rewatch. Well what the hey.
I never said they should have shown every contact, but it's a commonly accepted theory of good writing that you should show, not tell, and I think a bit more showing of the search for the First Ones would have been helpful. And I already acknowledged that that would have taken a bit away from the surprise in "Into the Fire", so I'm not sure why you're reiterating that.
Friend who's new to B5 and I just started S2, and I have to say, with no disrespect to those who prefer Sinclair, it feels like an improvement on S1 in just about every way. I'm not sure what specific changes they may have made beyond the more obvious ones, but I just find the show more watchable at this point. Having seen it more than once before, I'm surprised by how pronounced the improvement seems to be.
I'm looking for an episode, and I think I might have missed a couple during my rewatch but which episode did they have Lyta in the sick bay and she spots all the cameras? I remember the doctor changing cameras and each time she turned her head to face them?
Also which episode had June Lockhart (Maureen from Lost In Space) as a guest actor? I'm thinking it was "Believers" because I never really liked that episode the first time and avoided it this time.
Also which episode had June Lockhart (Maureen from Lost In Space) as a guest actor? I'm thinking it was "Believers" because I never really liked that episode the first time and avoided it this time.
Yeah Lyta's Vorlon memory thing explicitly states as such. Remember that the Vorlons aren't the most powerful telepaths around, but they do have stronger, older, more complex minds. Half the reason Vorlons are so cryptic is because it's actually difficult for them to shift their brain down a gear to communicate on our level. It's like trying to explain quantum physics to a squirrel.
For them, telepaths are weapons and they took some steps to make sure those weapons are loyal, hence the whole "beings of light" thing. It's not perfect of course, Lyta was able to hide her surface thoughts from Ulkesh and resist his attempts to open up her mind. The Nephilim were able to fool their Vorlon masters into thinking they'd been successfully wiped out, when in fact many of them survived and they were non-sentient and just acting on pure instinct.
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