Babylon 5 - I'm finally going to do it
- Thread starter tomalak301
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Lensman, he hasn't seen the second-to-last episode yet, so hold off with spoilers, even minor stuff...
Add me to the "Likes Lochley" club.
Tomalak, I would agree with some others here that it might be a better viewing experience if you take a day break between "Objects at Rest" and "Sleeping in Light". Some differences may be a bit jarring if viewed right after each other.
Add me to the "Likes Lochley" club.
Tomalak, I would agree with some others here that it might be a better viewing experience if you take a day break between "Objects at Rest" and "Sleeping in Light". Some differences may be a bit jarring if viewed right after each other.
^Really. I was ready to finish the series tonight.
Objects at Rest
Some more goodbyes and some more wrapping up. The goodbyes part of this episode was great, as well as the monolouge with Sheridan to his son. I don't think I liked the Lennier plot or Londo being there to give a Keeper to Sheridan though. I guess maybe I'm just at that point where this series is coming to an end and don't really need more unanswered questions just to keep things open (BTW, I did read spoilers that David's Keeper does die in a book so that's good to know, given I might not read the book). Also, why can't just one time the future not be written in stone. Lennier didn't have to betray Sheridan and the Rangers, to keep with what Morden said. In fact, I thought that bit was a little out of character for the guy even though he's been uneasy with the relationship. Perhaps it really was his destiny, but why can't a desteny this one time be unwritten like life is.
Other than that, one more episode to go and then maybe the movies. Actually, I'm in that mood now where I'm going to just go ahead and see it. I have the time.
Objects at Rest
Some more goodbyes and some more wrapping up. The goodbyes part of this episode was great, as well as the monolouge with Sheridan to his son. I don't think I liked the Lennier plot or Londo being there to give a Keeper to Sheridan though. I guess maybe I'm just at that point where this series is coming to an end and don't really need more unanswered questions just to keep things open (BTW, I did read spoilers that David's Keeper does die in a book so that's good to know, given I might not read the book). Also, why can't just one time the future not be written in stone. Lennier didn't have to betray Sheridan and the Rangers, to keep with what Morden said. In fact, I thought that bit was a little out of character for the guy even though he's been uneasy with the relationship. Perhaps it really was his destiny, but why can't a desteny this one time be unwritten like life is.
Other than that, one more episode to go and then maybe the movies. Actually, I'm in that mood now where I'm going to just go ahead and see it. I have the time.
I hate Lochely almost as much as Byron. Sure Ivanova was crass in Season One but she was never that bad. I dislike the performance, the dialogue, the druggie background to tie into Garibaldi, and I got even more unhappy with her when they stuck her on Crusade as well. I think the only time I actually liked her character was in "River of Souls" which was otherwise just awful. She was just uptight in all the wrong ways, even her voice was grating.
For the record, Lochley is one of my favourite fictional characters period.
Actually the bit with the Keeper is closing a plot loop, not leaving it open. The other end of the thread being 'War Without End' and the question of what were Sheridan and Delenn doing on Centauri Prime, 16 years hence.
As for Lennier, his feelings for Delenn go a little deeper than a general discomfort with her relationship Sheridan. He's twice confessed his love for her, once to Marcus and once to her, when he belived they were both about to die. Just because he didn't get all angsty and mope around, openly stewing in his sense of unrequited love dosen't mean there wasn't a volcano brewing under that Religious Caste reserve.
That's not a state any person can live with forever, so from a narrative point of view something HAD to happen, sooner or later. If it wasn't this it'd be something else; based on what Sech Turval said in 'Learning Curve' he was on a course for self destruction ever since Marcus died. Given that this was the penultimate episode, not showing what finally made Lennier snap would have been leaving a rather significant character arc unresolved.
Plus it's not like he activley set out to murder Sheridan, he saw an oppertunity and for a brief moment he was not entierly himself. Was it out of character? Sure, but who among us always adheres to a set behavioural pattern all of our live long lives? Plus I'm sure there are alot of people convicted of murdering a spouse for the insurance only did it the once, so you never know what can happen in a weak moment, under the right kinds of pressure.
Actually the bit with the Keeper is closing a plot loop, not leaving it open. The other end of the thread being 'War Without End' and the question of what were Sheridan and Delenn doing on Centauri Prime, 16 years hence.
As for Lennier, his feelings for Delenn go a little deeper than a general discomfort with her relationship Sheridan. He's twice confessed his love for her, once to Marcus and once to her, when he belived they were both about to die. Just because he didn't get all angsty and mope around, openly stewing in his sense of unrequited love dosen't mean there wasn't a volcano brewing under that Religious Caste reserve.
That's not a state any person can live with forever, so from a narrative point of view something HAD to happen, sooner or later. If it wasn't this it'd be something else; based on what Sech Turval said in 'Learning Curve' he was on a course for self destruction ever since Marcus died. Given that this was the penultimate episode, not showing what finally made Lennier snap would have been leaving a rather significant character arc unresolved.
Plus it's not like he activley set out to murder Sheridan, he saw an oppertunity and for a brief moment he was not entierly himself. Was it out of character? Sure, but who among us always adheres to a set behavioural pattern all of our live long lives? Plus I'm sure there are alot of people convicted of murdering a spouse for the insurance only did it the once, so you never know what can happen in a weak moment, under the right kinds of pressure.
The only time I liked Lochley was when she was on Crusade. She actually has chemistry with Gary Cole, who plays Captain Gideon.
It's been a while since I've seen the final season five episodes, but it always struck me as a little silly that Sheridan never investigated Londo enough to find out about the Keeper. I can't remember why now, it's been so long. But it felt more convenient than logical. On the other hand, reading JMS' explanation now, I buy it. I'll have to see upon another viewing.
As for Lennier's final betrayal, it's always struck me as completely out of character, but I won't go down that road of argument again.
Sleeping in Light is excellent, and far better than anything in season five. Can't wait to read your comments.
It's been a while since I've seen the final season five episodes, but it always struck me as a little silly that Sheridan never investigated Londo enough to find out about the Keeper. I can't remember why now, it's been so long. But it felt more convenient than logical. On the other hand, reading JMS' explanation now, I buy it. I'll have to see upon another viewing.
As for Lennier's final betrayal, it's always struck me as completely out of character, but I won't go down that road of argument again.
Sleeping in Light is excellent, and far better than anything in season five. Can't wait to read your comments.
Sleeping in Light
"Babylon 5 was the last of the Babylon stations. There would never be another. It changed the future, and it changed us. It taught us that we have to create the future, or others will do it for us. It showed us that we have to take care of one another, because if we don't, then who will? And that true strength sometimes comes from the most unlikely places. Mostly though I think it taught us that there can always be new beginnings. Even for people like us."
Before I started this thread, Neroon (I'm talking about the Moderator
) posted this quote. I loved this quote very much but I didn't understand the context of it. As I said when I started this thread, I've always asked questions here about Babylon 5 and why it's so liked and so on and realized that I finally had significant motivation to watch the series.
I know two people said I should wait a day, but I decided not to. I was at the end, and I was at the point where I could finally watch this series finale and given that the previous episodes where already putting me in that mood, I figured what the heck. So I watched it.
Wow. That was beautiful, sad, touching, happy, pick any emotion. From the cheers of reuniting with old friends, to toasting fallen comrades, and then the final "sleeping in light" moment as well as Ivanova with that wonderful quote. What an epilouge to what a wonderful series, and month it has been. I choked up, I think a tear fell (There really is only one episode that had me bawling and that was The Visitor but this one came close) and just everything about it was a beautiful piece of work.
In regards to that quote, I love finales that take the time to sum up what the show was about. The best finales (TNG, Farscape, and now Babylon 5) do this. This show was about hope, the possibility to put aside our differences and work together to better the world around us. This series kept our human vices, kept the conflicts, kept the life, but still had a very positive message. I find it refreshing actually that with this age of dark and gritty shows where hope is thrown out the window, this show was dark and gritty but hope was always there. This episode was a great summary of all of that, and watching Babylon 5 self destruct (Yeah I know that was JMS doing the honors and I thought that was really cool) it was just sad and full of joy at the same time. What a beautiful finale this was, and it's automatically going up there with my favorites, TNG and Farscape.
"Babylon 5 was the last of the Babylon stations. There would never be another. It changed the future, and it changed us. It taught us that we have to create the future, or others will do it for us. It showed us that we have to take care of one another, because if we don't, then who will? And that true strength sometimes comes from the most unlikely places. Mostly though I think it taught us that there can always be new beginnings. Even for people like us."
Before I started this thread, Neroon (I'm talking about the Moderator
) posted this quote. I loved this quote very much but I didn't understand the context of it. As I said when I started this thread, I've always asked questions here about Babylon 5 and why it's so liked and so on and realized that I finally had significant motivation to watch the series. I know two people said I should wait a day, but I decided not to. I was at the end, and I was at the point where I could finally watch this series finale and given that the previous episodes where already putting me in that mood, I figured what the heck. So I watched it.
Wow. That was beautiful, sad, touching, happy, pick any emotion. From the cheers of reuniting with old friends, to toasting fallen comrades, and then the final "sleeping in light" moment as well as Ivanova with that wonderful quote. What an epilouge to what a wonderful series, and month it has been. I choked up, I think a tear fell (There really is only one episode that had me bawling and that was The Visitor but this one came close) and just everything about it was a beautiful piece of work.
In regards to that quote, I love finales that take the time to sum up what the show was about. The best finales (TNG, Farscape, and now Babylon 5) do this. This show was about hope, the possibility to put aside our differences and work together to better the world around us. This series kept our human vices, kept the conflicts, kept the life, but still had a very positive message. I find it refreshing actually that with this age of dark and gritty shows where hope is thrown out the window, this show was dark and gritty but hope was always there. This episode was a great summary of all of that, and watching Babylon 5 self destruct (Yeah I know that was JMS doing the honors and I thought that was really cool) it was just sad and full of joy at the same time. What a beautiful finale this was, and it's automatically going up there with my favorites, TNG and Farscape.
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Congratulations, you made it all the way through! I've been following your thread with interest since about the season 2 mark and found it very entertaining. It's always a joy to welcome another B5 fan into the mix, but it was doubly cool to see you review each episode along the way and share you likes and dislikes.
It's odd how Sleeping in Light, an episode dealing heavily with death and moving on, reaffirmed life in the most lovely way, isn't it? And in case you didn't notice, the tech who shut the lights off was indeed JMS.
It's odd how Sleeping in Light, an episode dealing heavily with death and moving on, reaffirmed life in the most lovely way, isn't it? And in case you didn't notice, the tech who shut the lights off was indeed JMS.
I'm not sure if that blew me away or not. Something I did like though was the non-use of the title sequence (Or using the Sleeping in Light theme at the end with the credits) in favor of more time and a 44 minute episode instead of the typical 42. Great use of the credits for this one.
I'll post a season recap tomorrow. I was to wowed by the finale to get negative tonight even though there was some of Season 5 I did like.
I'll post a season recap tomorrow. I was to wowed by the finale to get negative tonight even though there was some of Season 5 I did like.
Cool. Maybe a series in review reflection as well?
Yep. Nicely said.
I've long since lost count of how many times I've seen this episode and it still blows me away every time. I've also run out of superlatives to describe it.
One of the nice things about being around TBBS so long is seeing people discover Babylon 5 and being able to "relive" (in a sense) the sorts of reactions I experienced the first time I saw the series. I'd like very much to somehow be able to see it again for the first time but threads like this are a decent substitute.
Lochley: I think we all disliked her for a few reasons, mostly because we wanted Claudia back with her unresolved issues, and Traci has never been that great an actor.
But one thing that really pissed me off was what TNT did for B5 promos when they first bought the show. They had the actors in ridiculous, insulting little vignettes between commercials. Traci's (in full Lochley uniform) was wandering around Green Bay asking people about this alien race she heard of called "Cheese Heads"... Oh god it was awful. Here we had the newbie actor on the show being introduced to us in the most insulting manner possible... Just, ugh.
But one thing that really pissed me off was what TNT did for B5 promos when they first bought the show. They had the actors in ridiculous, insulting little vignettes between commercials. Traci's (in full Lochley uniform) was wandering around Green Bay asking people about this alien race she heard of called "Cheese Heads"... Oh god it was awful. Here we had the newbie actor on the show being introduced to us in the most insulting manner possible... Just, ugh.
To be fair, neither was Christian.
Thanks for sharing the trip with us, tomalak. Now you can start the second viewing and see all the things you missed the first time around!
As for destiny and foreshadowing, one thing that I liked most about the show was that we often were shown exactly what would happen but along the way we discovered that why it happened was far different than we'd thought. Such as
I'm not sure any other TV show has ever attempted that.
Jan
As for destiny and foreshadowing, one thing that I liked most about the show was that we often were shown exactly what would happen but along the way we discovered that why it happened was far different than we'd thought. Such as
when Lady Ladira saw the destruction of the station. It was almost exactly the scene we saw in 'Sleeping in Light' with the shuttle leaving and then the station exploding.
Jan
Claudia Christian was never very good on Babylon 5, save for 'Rising Star,' but she was awfully good on Freaks and Geeks and a few other things I've seen her in. Looking at IMDB, though, she's been in an awful lot of crap (Manica Cop 2? A Bruce Campbell movie that is so bad, it's not even on DVD!).
I always liked the Lochley character.
The one thing that annoyed me was the marriage to Sheridan. It seemed like a forced tidbit. I would have found it more credible if they were just former lovers. But, that is a little nitpick.
Kudos to the actress for stepping in and doing a good job.
I was disappointed when CC did not return for season 5, but that was her choice.
Well with time and space between me and Byron, my loathing has cooled. The actor worked well as a Minbari.
I think the entire storyline just fell flat for me, and after the great ride that was season 4, I wanted the story to have oomph.
The one thing that annoyed me was the marriage to Sheridan. It seemed like a forced tidbit. I would have found it more credible if they were just former lovers. But, that is a little nitpick.
Kudos to the actress for stepping in and doing a good job.
I was disappointed when CC did not return for season 5, but that was her choice.
Well with time and space between me and Byron, my loathing has cooled. The actor worked well as a Minbari.
I think the entire storyline just fell flat for me, and after the great ride that was season 4, I wanted the story to have oomph.
If you look back even on this thread you'll see comments about how the first episodes of *every* season start off slow. Given how much had been tied up in S4, even if everybody had adored Byron there still would have been issues of slowness. Me, I'm just happy that we got so many experimental/stand-alones and the wrap-up of the Centauri Prime and Londo stories.Well with time and space between me and Byron, my loathing has cooled. The actor worked well as a Minbari.
Jan
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