Babylon 5 - I'm finally going to do it

[tomalak301]

Well, I thought Claudia was a decent actress, and I liked Ivanova. I also liked Scoggins as Lochley and the more the season went on, the more I did come around to her. I guess perhaps this might be a good sign for whenever I get to Crusade.

Anyway, time for a Season 5 and Series Recap:

Season 5

I didn't want to post this last night because I had a feeling my recap would have killed the vibe of good feelings after watching the finale. I'm still kind of digesting Sleeping in Light, but it's good enough time to write about the season as a whole. Frankly, I was very disappointed with Season 5, and putting it at the bottom of the ranking of Seasons. There were quite a number of good episodes, both in the first half and second, but there were a lot of episodes where I kept on thinking B5 was staggering towards the finish line instead of full speed ahead. Some of these include Secret of the Soul, which really disappointed me because it was kind of dull, and it was pretty much the episode that sent Lyta into a downward spiral. I didn't like what the character became, even though it was probably a necessary evil. I just felt that in the previous seasons, and especially in The Gathering, she was a lot cooler. Another episode that really disappointed me was The Corps is Mother, The Corps is Father. Like I said in the review, this probably would have been a good late season 1 early season 2 episode to introduce the Psi-corps. As it was, this was dull, and being Bester's final episode, I was just really let down by it.

Not all of it was bad. I liked some of the telepath story and I still don't mind Byron. I don't hate him, but I don't like him. He was just there, but I do still wonder if the actor playing him hindered the performence. What if someone like Chris Eccleston or James Callis or hell, even the guy who played Spike on Buffy and was in Torchwood a few times played him. It might have been a lot better and the attitude and tone might have been more believeable. I also loved the Centauri storyline which is just as good, if not better than some of the storylines in past seasons.

The Characters were good this year too, especially Garibaldi, G'Kar and Londo. I thought those three characters had an outstanding year just in development and what happened. Surprisingly, I thought Delenn and Sheridan did not have a good year, other than the final episodes as Sleeping in Light. Maybe I just like Sheridan in a commanding role, on the white star ready to kick ass. I just thought the cuddling between him and Delenn got tiring pretty quickly.

So, given this is long, Season 5 in a nutshell: Disappointing season, making me wish for the good days of Season 2-4, but really improved in the final 10 episodes.

Top 5 and Bottom 3 now:

Top 5 (In Order)

Movements of Fire and Shadow/Sleeping in Light (Tie because I want to )
Fall of Centauri Prime
A Very Long Night of Londo Mollari
Darkness Ascending
And All My Dreams, Torn Asunder

Bottom 3 (In Order)
The Corps is Mother, The Corps is Father
Secrets of the Soul
Learning Curve

The Series

Overall, I loved this series. It was a great ride from start to finish with great characters and great ideas. I actually went through this in my review of Sleeping in Light, but I think what I really liked about this series was the idea that peace can be achieved in a world where it might be impossible. It was a series where the juxtaposition of Hope/Fear and Life/Death were great because it was a "dark" series, but it didn't depress me. I would recommend it to anyone.

Ranking the Seasons

Season 3
Season 2
Season 4
Season 1
Season 5

Ranking the Seasons based on Theme Song

Season 3
Season 5
Season 4
Season 2
Season 1

Top 15 episodes Overall

Severed Dreams
The Long Twilight Struggle
Sleeping in Light
The Coming of Shadows
The Face of the Enemy
War Without End
Into the Fire
Z'Ha'Dum
Endgame
In the Shadow of Z'Ha'Dum
Shadow Dancing
Movements of Fire and Shadow
And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place
Signs and Portants
Chrysalis



So that's it. I'll probably write some about the movies whenever that happens, but This thread has been fun. In fact, it's been the most successful thread I've started (Minus the NFL Season discussions and stuff like that) ever on this board. It was so fun having the interaction and I picked up a few things. You guys are awesome.

 

[Mr Light]

Aside from putting S4 over S2 slightly I agree with most of what you said. Well, except for liking Lochely and Byron So would you say it's the GREATEST tv show ever made? That's what I always say

 

[tomalak301]

Aside from putting S4 over S2 slightly I agree with most of what you said. Well, except for liking Lochely and Byron So would you say it's the GREATEST tv show ever made? That's what I always say

I still like Farscape but B5 is up there.

 

[Hyperspace05]

Tomalak,
It has been a pleasure to read this thread - to experience the show again from someone else's fresh perspective. I'm glad you liked it!

If I had to sum up why I love the show so much, it would be two points:

- Change - the only constant in the B5 Universe. To have a show continuous make drastic changes from season to season (and within seasons) was (and still is) such a difference from most other shows. This change, from the galactic level to the personal level is why B5 really is by far the most pure Space Opera television has seen.

- Characters - No show is any good without good characters. And so many great ones were on B5. Londo & G'Kar primarily. While the show was naturally very human-centered, I think those two were at the real core of what the show was about. The choices me make.

- Neato FX and ships didn't hurt either.


I'll certainly be interested in hearing what you think of the B5 movies, should you get around to them.

 

[Harvey]

This has been a lovely thread, tomalok301. I hope you make time for the movies and for the failed (commercially, not necessarily creatively) spin-offs. I think, on the whole, you won't be as pleased with them as you were the series, but there's plenty of things to enjoy there.

 

[Mr Light]

Farscape is definitely in my top five with B5, LOST, Angel...

 

[Forbin]

Emphasis mine
Lochley: I think we all disliked her for a few reasons, mostly because we wanted Claudia back with her unresolved issues, and Traci [sic] has never been that great an actor.

To be fair, neither was Christian.

I can't argue for the most part, but I really loved her in a lot of the show.

 

[The Evil Dead]

Thanks for sharing the journey with us tomalak301

 

[Mal]

I still don't mind Byron. I don't hate him, but I don't like him. He was just there, but I do still wonder if the actor playing him hindered the performence. What if someone like Chris Eccleston or James Callis or hell, even the guy who played Spike on Buffy and was in Torchwood a few times played him.

Great idea! James Marsters did an awesome job as Charlemagne in Andromeda, and I think Byron would have worked much, much better along the lines of a "I-so-much-fucking-better-than-you" Nietzschean, than the creepy Jim Jones cult leader direction JMS took.

 

[Jan]

One thing I noticed when inventorying the differences between the scripts and the finished product on the DVDs was that there were a number of instances where scenes of Byron communing with his people were cut or shortened. That and the fact that I don't think any of his followers ever said a word until they started rebelling really hurt my impression of the teep colony.

Jan

 

[Mike Farley]

If you give the actors line you have to pay them more. Even notice how quiet most of the extras were on TNG compared to a regular fulfilling the same function?

PICARD: Set course for the Delphi system, Mister Crusher. Warp 8.
WESLEY: Aye, sir. Course and speed set. Standing by.



PICARD: Set course for the Delphi system, Ensign Noname. Warp 8.
ENSIGN NONAME: (pushes buttons and nods silently)

 

[Harvey]

That's true. It's why we don't have much of an emotional connection to those no-name, N.D. players. We have a connection to Wesley (be it positive or negative) because he's given scenes and the dialogue. Which is fine for a no name helmsman to not have. But we needed to have more of a connection to the telepaths, and that wasn't accomplished here.

 

[Reverend]

Plus of course they were telepaths. For all we know there could have been several heated discussions going on, without them uttering a single sound. Perhaps Psi-subtitles could be included on the next DVD release?

"Quiet, here comes that long haired ponce again."
"Check out the red head, I'd scan here any day."
"Does this spoo taste fresh to you?"
"Zooty, zooty zoot!"
"Pack it in, you're not funny."
"What's that pak'ma'ra doing with my cat?"

 

[Mr Light]

"Quiet, here comes that long haired ponce again."

LMAO

 

[tomalak301]

This has been a lovely thread, tomalok301. I hope you make time for the movies and for the failed (commercially, not necessarily creatively) spin-offs. I think, on the whole, you won't be as pleased with them as you were the series, but there's plenty of things to enjoy there.

There was more than one spin-off?

Thanks for the kind words all. I really enjoyed doing this thread and feel a bit empty now that I'm not trying to watch the series each night. Hopefully In the Beginning should come either this week or the next and that's definitely the first one I'll see. Then not sure about the rest. Is there a specific order I should view them in?

As for the telepaths, and not speaking, I thought I heard somewhere that you had to be a part of the SAG to get dialouge as well, so it wasn't a money thing. Also, we did have that Peter get a few lines, but other than when the fighting started, it was only Byron who talked. I agree it didn't help the fact we didn't know any of the other telepaths to really care all that much about the cause.

 

[Trubinator]

There was only one spin-off, which ran 12 episodes ... that was Crusade. There was another failed attempt at a series, which eventually became Legend of the Rangers. I'd just stick with Crusade, the films and TLT.

 

[Hyperspace05]

Tomalak, the movie order is:

- In the Beginning
- Thirdspace
- River of Souls
- A Call to Arms

I would say that only "In the Beginning" and "A Call to Arms" are the must-see ones, that deal with major events in the B5 universe. (they are also the best ones) ITB is a retrospective on the Earth-Minbari war, and ACTA takes place a few years after "Objects at Rest", with the Drakh threat to Earth and the Interstellar Alliance. It also acts as a bridge/pilot to the "Crusade" series.

The other two movies are not important per se - more like filler plots.

Years later a fifth movie was made - "The legend of the Rangers". Opinions on it are divided, but it does have one major saving grace - the last appearance of Andreas Katsulas as G'Kar.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I still don't mind Byron. I don't hate him, but I don't like him. He was just there, but I do still wonder if the actor playing him hindered the performence. What if someone like Chris Eccleston or James Callis or hell, even the guy who played Spike on Buffy and was in Torchwood a few times played him.

Great idea! James Marsters did an awesome job as Charlemagne in Andromeda, and I think Byron would have worked much, much better along the lines of a "I-so-much-fucking-better-than-you" Nietzschean, than the creepy Jim Jones cult leader direction JMS took.

I don't think I would have liked that. I don't know how much it would have helped Byron and probably would have killed Marsters. What it have been before Buffy even?

If you give the actors line you have to pay them more. Even notice how quiet most of the extras were on TNG compared to a regular fulfilling the same function?

PICARD: Set course for the Delphi system, Mister Crusher. Warp 8.
WESLEY: Aye, sir. Course and speed set. Standing by.



PICARD: Set course for the Delphi system, Ensign Noname. Warp 8.
ENSIGN NONAME: (pushes buttons and nods silently)

I thought it was because per SAG contract, no members weren't allowed to speak on screen?

 

[Mike Farley]

Non SAG members can get dialog. Being featured and being given lines is one of the ways non-members work their way up the ladder to join the Guild. I don't think they can be cast for a role but an extra can be told "Sit over here and say this". But if they are I believe they have to be payed more than the pittance that extras receive for a days work. Also they are eligible to get a SAG voucher. Collect enough of these and you are able to join the union.

Plus a lot of those extras are SAG. There are thousands of SAG members who have regular day jobs and fill their "spare" time with not only auditions, but extra work as well--hoping for their Big Break..."Hey, Kid, you've got a look...come over here and stand next to Mister Shatner..."

 

[Hyperspace05]

Yeah with B5's small budget (slightly less than $1 million per episode, AFAIK), limiting the number of actors/extras with dialog was always important.

That's the case with most shows. If you really pay attention when watching, there's a lot fewer people with speaking lines than you might initially realize. Most productions are good at hiding it.