Arrow - Season 2

[Thestral]

2) The President of The CW Network hadn't moronically given away the 'Sarah Lance is Black Canary' secret months ago

Glad I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to summertime announcements then. And even so, they didn't exactly try to hide it - this is... what, her third episode, second of any significance, and they quickly dispensed with the secret after dropping pretty strong hints - well, for Ollie and the audience, at least.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Can this show make it to a third season with Summer Glau?

 

[Icemizer]

Wouldnt it be cool if it was revealed that Sebastion Blood had a Uncle named Jason and that way we introduce the Demon Etrigan into this show? Ah well I can think about it any way.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Wouldnt it be cool if it was revealed that Sebastion Blood had a Uncle named Jason and that way we introduce the Demon Etrigan into this show? Ah well I can think about it any way.

Only if he's a rapper.

 

[kirk55555]

If they hadn't called her Sin, she would still be annoying.

How is she annoying? It's not like she's had a lot of screen time to be annoying, or done anything to the established characters. Is it how she led Roy on a chase? Did her running annoy you?

Every time she talked she was annoying, like her scene in the hospital with Roy and her scenes talking with BC. Basically, if sound was coming out of her mouth, she was annoying me.

If they hadn't called her Sin, she would still be annoying. Honestly, I don't care if she dies, she's not that bad. I just don't want her on my TV. Arrow actually usually does well when it comes to changes, they just happened to have an idiotic character with a completely inappropriate name.

Inappropriate in what way? A street kid takes the name "Sin"? Shocking!!!!!!

Inappropriate in the same way that introducing a 80 year old woman, making her a geriatric, elderly assassin and calling her Lady Shiva would be. By inappropriate, I'm talking about pointlessly using a name from the comics in a way that makes absolutely no sense, even more so than the stupid version of Count verttigo.

 

[Australis]

This ain't the comics. I thought you would have got that by now.

Good ep. I'm not up on the whole BC backstory, so I don't care. Entertainment is all.

I do wish Jacqueline MacInnes Wood had come back, tbh she was much prettier and a better actress (whether she would be up to the athletics is another story).

 

[Nerys Myk]

If they hadn't called her Sin, she would still be annoying. Honestly, I don't care if she dies, she's not that bad. I just don't want her on my TV. Arrow actually usually does well when it comes to changes, they just happened to have an idiotic character with a completely inappropriate name.

Inappropriate in what way? A street kid takes the name "Sin"? Shocking!!!!!!

Inappropriate in the same way that introducing a 80 year old woman, making her a geriatric, elderly assassin and calling her Lady Shiva would be. By inappropriate, I'm talking about pointlessly using a name from the comics in a way that makes absolutely no sense, even more so than the stupid version of Count verttigo.

If that's true, every character on the show is inappropriate to some degree. As is every character in Smallville and just about every TV or film adaptation of a comic book ever made.

Where is your outrage over Roy Harper, Dinah Laurel Lance, Sebastian Blood, Felicity Smoake and even Oliver Queen all of whom have strayed from who they are in the comics? Why is making Sin a teenager a bigger sin that what was done to these characters?

 

[DigificWriter]

Inappropriate in the same way that introducing a 80 year old woman, making her a geriatric, elderly assassin and calling her Lady Shiva would be. By inappropriate, I'm talking about pointlessly using a name from the comics in a way that makes absolutely no sense, even more so than the stupid version of Count verttigo.

To quote Inigo Montoya, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

IOW, somebody needs to look up the definition of the word 'inappropriate'.

 

[Sto-Vo-Kory]

Inappropriate in the same way that introducing a 80 year old woman, making her a geriatric, elderly assassin and calling her Lady Shiva would be. By inappropriate, I'm talking about pointlessly using a name from the comics in a way that makes absolutely no sense, even more so than the stupid version of Count verttigo.

To quote Inigo Montoya, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

IOW, somebody needs to look up the definition of the word 'inappropriate'.

One of the synonyms for inappropriate is "ill-fitting," which perfectly applies in what Kirk55555 is saying about what he feels is an unsuitable casting choice. I don't agree with his opinion but I think it's clear he not suggesting that casting a teenager in the role of a character that was originally a child is in any way "morally improper" (which is another synonym for inappropriate). The context in which he used the word makes that clear.

 

[Pauln6]

I think the intro of Black Canary has been interesting. I love the low key way they are implementing her power. Also, a carbon copy would make a great Mockingbird.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Inappropriate in the same way that introducing a 80 year old woman, making her a geriatric, elderly assassin and calling her Lady Shiva would be. By inappropriate, I'm talking about pointlessly using a name from the comics in a way that makes absolutely no sense, even more so than the stupid version of Count verttigo.

To quote Inigo Montoya, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

IOW, somebody needs to look up the definition of the word 'inappropriate'.

One of the synonyms for inappropriate is "ill-fitting," which perfectly applies in what Kirk55555 is saying about what he feels is an unsuitable casting choice. I don't agree with his opinion but I think it's clear he not suggesting that casting a teenager in the role of a character that was originally a child is in any way "morally improper" (which is another synonym for inappropriate). The context in which he used the word makes that clear.

Not sure if it's ill fitting. The character in the TV show is a teenager and played by an actress who's pushing 20. All they've done is use the name of a comic book character who has a relationship with Black Canary. It's not all that different than using Felicity Smoake. Smoake isn't even in the Green Arrow "family".

 

[kirk55555]

Inappropriate in what way? A street kid takes the name "Sin"? Shocking!!!!!!

Inappropriate in the same way that introducing a 80 year old woman, making her a geriatric, elderly assassin and calling her Lady Shiva would be. By inappropriate, I'm talking about pointlessly using a name from the comics in a way that makes absolutely no sense, even more so than the stupid version of Count verttigo.

If that's true, every character on the show is inappropriate to some degree. As is every character in Smallville and just about every TV or film adaptation of a comic book ever made.

Where is your outrage over Roy Harper, Dinah Laurel Lance, Sebastian Blood, Felicity Smoake and even Oliver Queen all of whom have strayed from who they are in the comics? Why is making Sin a teenager a bigger sin that what was done to these characters?

If the character is written well and interesting, I can ignore how much they match their comic counterpart. Slade gets a pass for not being an assassin who was subjected to experiments that enabled him to use 90% of his brain because the Arrow version is interesting and well done. Ollie himself is also very interesting and entertaining, so it doesn't matter that he's not very similar to the classic GA I'm used to. On the other hand, Vertigo is lame and not anywhere near as interesting as his comic form. In fact he has nothing in common with Count Vertigo outside of his name, but thats not the reason he sucks. He sucks because he was poorly written and annoying.

Sin is obviously more influenced by the comics than vertigo or Felicity, because she's atleast semi-connected to a character called Black Canary in the show. But, she's an annoying generic punk/street urchin who could not exist and the lack of the character would only improve the show, which makes her name not matching more of an issue, and something I actively dislike. If done well, I don't mind characters that steal names that really make no sense for them, and Sin could have been interesting. If she was less annoying, and actually had a bit more of a point/back story, I probably wouldn't care about her having the name.

As for Felicity, I don't have any personal experience to compare her to the comic version. The comic character is so obscure that wikipedia only mentions her in the article for the TV show. Apparently, according to comicvine.com, she was Ronnie Raymond's step mother who used to get into arguments with Firestorm (and even sued him, apparently) before she became his stepmother and found out his identity).

She's such a minor character in the comics that they probably just grabbed her name while browsing through DC character names that sounded good. She's a good character on Arrow, so while I would have preferred a random name (why even bother using a comic name, especially one 99% of people, even comic fans, won't recognise? Especially if the character has absolutely no connection to the comic version) it doesn't really bother me at all for her to have a name from a character that is nothing like her. I think its a bit bizarre, but not something I really think about.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ You keep saying you find the character of Sin annoying, but have yet to actually tell us why you find her annoying (and no, 'she's a genetic street urchin' doesn't count as an explanation).

Also, you really have some major double standards with regards to characters on this show and the way they're used.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Sin is obviously more influenced by the comics than vertigo or Felicity, because she's atleast semi-connected to a character called Black Canary in the show. But, she's an annoying generic punk/street urchin who could not exist and the lack of the character would only improve the show, which makes her name not matching more of an issue, and something I actively dislike. If done well, I don't mind characters that steal names that really make no sense for them, and Sin could have been interesting. If she was less annoying, and actually had a bit more of a point/back story, I probably wouldn't care about her having the name.

As for Felicity, I don't have any personal experience to compare her to the comic version. The comic character is so obscure that wikipedia only mentions her in the article for the TV show. Apparently, according to comicvine.com, she was Ronnie Raymond's step mother who used to get into arguments with Firestorm (and even sued him, apparently) before she became his stepmother and found out his identity).

Sin's pretty obscure too. I had forgotten she existed until this thread.

So far Sin has appeared in two episodes for a couple of scenes that maybe amount to 15 minutes. Not really enough time to make a judgement about the character. So far she's been a foil for Roy, a victim of the Mayor and someone who helps define Black Canary's motives. Again not enough info to make a judgement. So I'm finding your reasoning a bit wobbly. I especially find the idea that this new character, who only been on the show briefly, is really dragging the show down.

Roy falls into the 'generic punk/street urchin" category too. Why does he get a pass?

Could you rephrase this part:

But, she's an annoying generic punk/street urchin who could not exist and the lack of the character would only improve the show, which makes her name not matching more of an issue, and something I actively dislike. If done well, I don't mind characters that steal names that really make no sense for them, and Sin could have been interesting.

Do you mean should in stead of could? If so why shouldn't she exist? On the other hand, why couldn't she exist?

What exactly do you actively dislike, again?

Why does that "Sin" make no sense? Her given name is Cynthia. Makes more sense than actually naming a kid "Sin".

 

[kirk55555]

I probably phrased that badly. I meant that you could take her out of the episodes, and the overall story would work just as well, if not better. You'd have to find something else for Roy to do, but just make Thea as the person who gets injured (maybe she was going to meet Roy or something and becomes a casualty) and you give Roy something to do with a better character. BC doesn't need a sidekick. She's interesting because of her identity, Sin adds nothing to the character.

The name Sin makes no sense as a reference to a comic character that is almost nothing like the annoying TV version, with the only similarities being their gender and the color of their hair. Like I said, if Sin didn't annoy me and actually had a point, I could ignore that, but Sin being super annoying and pointless makes her name an issue.

As for why I find her annoying, what else can I say? She is a complete waste of screen time, her "role" is completely unneeded and its not helped by having a fairly mediocre actress playing her, not to mention the fact that for what she is she's not written well. Every time she was on screen, it felt like the TV show was wasting my time and I just want to see her viciously killed off as soon as possible. The show has enough interesting characters that the annoying punk/street urchin cliche is just wasting screen time. She's also nothing like Roy. Roy has a personality that isn't grating, and he has had character growth. He also has real motives and feels like a real character, not a cliche.

 

[sojourner]

Roy has had alot more screen time to have character growth. More than the 3 or so lines Sin has had so far. Sheesh, you are the master of "preconceived".

The actress is also pretty great, as I said before, she was on The Killing last season and was probably the best thing about the show.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I probably phrased that badly. I meant that you could take her out of the episodes, and the overall story would work just as well, if not better. You'd have to find something else for Roy to do, but just make Thea as the person who gets injured (maybe she was going to meet Roy or something and becomes a casualty) and you give Roy something to do with a better character. BC doesn't need a sidekick. She's interesting because of her identity, Sin adds nothing to the character.

A rather ironic statement considering Black Canary's history. She started out as a sidekick to Johnny Thunder. When she got her own strip she gained a sidekick in the form of Larry Lance. After the death of Lance she became Green Arrow's girlfriend/sidekick. Her most successful series was as part of the Birds of Prey team. In the new 52 she had a sidekick called Starling.

The name Sin makes no sense as a reference to a comic character that is almost nothing like the annoying TV version, with the only similarities being their gender and the color of their hair. Like I said, if Sin didn't annoy me and actually had a point, I could ignore that, but Sin being super annoying and pointless makes her name an issue.

You seem to be the only one who finds her annoying and sees her as pointless.

As for why I find her annoying, what else can I say? She is a complete waste of screen time, her "role" is completely unneeded and its not helped by having a fairly mediocre actress playing her, not to mention the fact that for what she is she's not written well. Every time she was on screen, it felt like the TV show was wasting my time and I just want to see her viciously killed off as soon as possible. The show has enough interesting characters that the annoying punk/street urchin cliche is just wasting screen time. She's also nothing like Roy. Roy has a personality that isn't grating, and he has had character growth. He also has real motives and feels like a real character, not a cliche.

She' really hasn't been in enough scenes to be annoying to the degree you claim. As for being unneeded, I would disagree. Like Digg and Felicity, Sin serves as a sounding board. BC can unload on her and use her as an exposition "dump". Her friendship with Roy and Thea probably has purpose was well. Not seeing the bad acting or writing. She's no worse than any other actor on the show. Her dialog doesn't seem any worse either. Examples? What makes her "grating". Again, examples. Just repeating she's a "punk/street urchin cliche" does little to shed any light on your opinion. Roy's been in the show for a while and has had time to develop. When he first showed up he wasn't all that different than Sin.

 

[DigificWriter]

@kirk: So, basically, Sin is 'annoying' only because you think she's unnecessary, which brings me back to the words of Inigo that I posted earlier: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

 

[Guy Gardener]

A truly disturbing line from Sean Saves the World by his TV Mom "And of course there was the time I had sex with Mandy Patinkin, a very robust lover."

I think the problem with Sin is that she's dressed identically to Leather Tuscadero and although we might not recognise that immendiately, it's grating against our subconsious that a character form Happy Days has escaped Syndicaiton through from possibly a magic portal.

Think about it, if Leather is out already, how long until the rest of the gang storm the CW?

 

[sojourner]

Sin has better hair and a better body than Leather, now, if Pinky Tuscadero shows up....