I don't how one even factors in the stuff that was done on Season One of 'Discovery'.
Are there ethical problems with Janeway's time travel in 'Endgame'?
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Time travel has scary implications for everyone. Imagine going to bed, and waking up in a different world every day, because some jerk went back before that and changed things. Again and again.
Just calling it, “changing the timeline” just sanitizes it.
Effing with history means truly frightening variables are being created.
But I will go to sleep in my Augmentor Chair, and dream it back to the way it should be. But the dream gets crazy, and whoops. Now, I have just destroyed Civilization as we know it.
The Lathe of Heaven.
Crap! Undo! Undo! Reset! Get me a Time Cop!
Just calling it, “changing the timeline” just sanitizes it.
Effing with history means truly frightening variables are being created.
But I will go to sleep in my Augmentor Chair, and dream it back to the way it should be. But the dream gets crazy, and whoops. Now, I have just destroyed Civilization as we know it.
The Lathe of Heaven.
Crap! Undo! Undo! Reset! Get me a Time Cop!
Anyone else wondering about the apparent inconsistency between a collective obsession enthusiasm for canon and continuity in the fanbase sitting side by side with the acknowledgement that trillions of beings all around the galaxy have the means to pretty much alter timelines at will?
Of course it was unethical. Butterfly Effect wise, what she did wiped millions of people from existence to save like 20.
Un ethical?, damn skippy it was!
The younger janeway should have just said.. Nope, not going to do it, people die, I'm not going to change the timeline to get home a few years early and save a few people. If we go, we won't meet the people we will meet, or help, and many more could die than seven or anybody else.. So no, I apreciate it.. but get lost.
In the books, thats EXACTLY what happened (BOOK SPOILER AHEAD, not latest)
Janeway dying from a new borg super cube, and the whole borg invasion thing in destiny.. the borg just said.. screw it just destroy the federation.. there being to much of a PITA.. send EVERYTHING and torch everybody. Planets destroyed, billions dead. where if they stayed, that wouldn't have happened. so yes.. bad things happened because Admiral Janeway was selfish..
The younger janeway should have just said.. Nope, not going to do it, people die, I'm not going to change the timeline to get home a few years early and save a few people. If we go, we won't meet the people we will meet, or help, and many more could die than seven or anybody else.. So no, I apreciate it.. but get lost.
In the books, thats EXACTLY what happened (BOOK SPOILER AHEAD, not latest)
Janeway dying from a new borg super cube, and the whole borg invasion thing in destiny.. the borg just said.. screw it just destroy the federation.. there being to much of a PITA.. send EVERYTHING and torch everybody. Planets destroyed, billions dead. where if they stayed, that wouldn't have happened. so yes.. bad things happened because Admiral Janeway was selfish..
I believe that was her decision way back in season one's "Eye of The Needle" where she told the Romulan that they shouldn't try and prevent Voyager's mission in to the Badlands because of the impact they have already made. Think of the impact they would have made on the original journey home before Janeway decided she knew better.
But I guess that was entirely within character. for example from the episode "Phage"
JANEWAY: I can't begin to understand what your people have gone through. They may have found a way to ignore the moral implications of what you are doing, but I have no such luxury. I don't have the freedom to kill you to save another. My culture finds that to be a reprehensible and entirely unacceptable act. If we were closer to home I would lock you up and turn you over to my authorities for trial, but I don't even have that ability here, and I am not prepared to carry you forever in our brig. So I see no other alternative but to let you go. Take a message to your people. If I ever encounter your kind again, I will do whatever is necessary to protect my people from this harvesting of yours. Any aggressive actions against this ship or it's crew will be met by the deadliest force. Is that clear?
a feyear later she totally contradicts that when she murders Tuvix.
And no lets not turn this into another Tuvix debate I was merely using that as an example of another contradiction of saying one thing and doing something else (at a later point).
Fundamentally nothing had really changed if it was wrong before it's still wrong. The only real difference is that there was a more deeper emotional connection as in some respects Janeway thought of Seven as a daughter. Sure I can understand her desire to change things so a loved one wouldn't die. But that doesn't make it right.
Future Red could have just hinted at how Seven died, or what course to take to avoid things..
I think in some book, they said that of all the myriad of multiverses, only a few survive the borg, and maybe the reason no time cop stopped any of this because it led to the Destiny book series version of things.. Good of the many etc etc.
I think in some book, they said that of all the myriad of multiverses, only a few survive the borg, and maybe the reason no time cop stopped any of this because it led to the Destiny book series version of things.. Good of the many etc etc.
If they wanted that to be a reason then they should have worked it in to the episode somehow. as a viewer I shouldn't have to read/watch something else to get a reason for doing/not doing something. Esp. as the book would be more of a ret con being written sometime after as a means to try and address some of the concerns about changing the timeline.
It was brought up in one of the novels. It would have been nice if the episode writers had thought of that idea, but evidently they didn't.
I wouldn't call it a retcon though, just an explanation for why the Time Cops don't show up during "Endgame". But then, was anyone really expecting them to?
Realistically no, but VOY introduced the element of "Time Cops" monitoring the timeline for changes so it would have been nice if they had addressed why Janeway was allowed to get away with changing the timeline in the episode.
Christopher's time cop books had a little sit down with the present day time cops (from DS9) and their futurist counterparts from Voyager and Enterprise, who said that yes Janeway broke every rule, but she gets a pass, and no one is going to overwrite Endgame because it's the only timeline they have figured out where the Universe does not go completely Borg.
Not reversing Endgame is understandable.
Rewarding Kathryn for unconscionable behavior with a get out of jail free card is not.
"friends" in high places.
Graft.
Corruption.
Time-Crime
LOCK HER UP! LOCK HER UP!
She rewrote 25 years of history to save 2 friends and get home a little earlier, and did it in such a way she nearly gave the Federation's worst enemy technology from the future.
Although it was kind of the point that she was a bitter husk, out of fucks to give so....
Although it was kind of the point that she was a bitter husk, out of fucks to give so....
So what would happen if... someone messed with time and in doing so did away with "Time Cops"
In your dreams. Janeway rules.
You know if Janeway were a Time Lord she would be a hero.
She broke the first law of time and shattered the web of time.
So what would happen if... someone messed with time and in doing so did away with "Time Cops"
Enterprise s01e26/s02e01 Shockwave.
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