Anyone's opinion of NEM improve because of "Star Trek: Picard"?

Nemesis will never be my favorite Star Trek Movie. But A) I really like the soundtrack for this movie, B) I think it does a good job of unintentionally laying groundwork for Star Trek: Picard, and C) The fact that this is no longer the note the 24th Century ends on takes the sting out of it.

I'm still not too keen on the early-2000s CGI, but it is what it is.

 

Absolutely. Parts of it are still stupid (PD ignored for a buggy chase, no one remembers Lore, the 24 deck ship now has a deck 29, ship displays show an unused concept design...), but the final episode of PIC corrected the bad feeling at the end of Nemesis.

 

I own the soundtrack.

TNG was never my favorite series so I just appreciated as a Star Trek action film, aside from the jeep scene. That was dumb. But the rest? It was fine. Won't ever be my favorite by far, but certainly not the worst.

 

Nope: Picard's my least favourite of the new Treks, so it in no way retroactively improves my least favourite of all the Star Trek movies.

 

No.

I never got this line of reasoning?

'Oh the ST makes the PT better!' 'Oh, Picard/DIS makes NEM/ENT better!' 'Oh, Fallout 4/76 makes 3 better!!".

No, it doesn't. It's all (subjectively) subpar to me still. Just because the series continues to tumble, doesn't somehow make the stuff from before any 'better'. It just shows how far low the series can still go, is all.

 

DSC didn't make my opinion of ENT go up. ENT's still my least favorite Trek series, while Disco is my favorite.

With Nemesis my opinion of it went up from a 3/10 (in 2002) to a 4/10 (in 2010) to a 5/10 (in 2020). It's slowly crept upward over the last two decades to what I think of as "mediocre". So it's not like my opinion of it did a 180. It just went up a little for the reasons I said in the OP.

 

I’ve always liked Nemesis. Saw it on opening night and thought it was thrilling. It was my wife’s (then girlfriend) first Trek movie. To this day it’s her favorite.

There’s some stupidity, yes. The Kolarus III scene is ludicrous, even as an action piece (although Worf’s “Very astute” line is a franchise favorite....so there is that). I do think they left a VASTLY superior version of the film on the cutting room floor.

But none of the other stuff people generally hate about it even registers with me.

Data’s death? Doesn’t bother me in the slightest.
Shinzon’s jumbled motives and irrational plan? The guy is completely insane...doesn’t bother me.
Action and pew pew? I always love Action Trek.
With respect to @NCC-73515 nothing about the number of decks or the displays would ever cause me to actively dislike a film...so no issues there either.


Honestly, there are times I think it exceeds FC as being the best TNG film.


Moderators, please move my post to the “Controversial Star Trek Opinions” thread if warranted.

 

No comment.

 

I’m also the guy who....
Loves TOS S3
Loves TFF
Thinks TUC is vastly overrated
Likes Vic Fontaine episodes
Believes “Duet” and “Measure of a Man” are good, but ultimately unremarkable

...so take my opinions with a grain of salt in that context!!

 

On the same general topic...I think my opinion of TMP is the one that has changed the most through the years on the upward trend.

I’d say TUC has changed the most on the downward trend.

 

^ My opinion of Insurrection went down. Largely thanks to you persuading me that a film that tries (Nemesis) is better than a film that doesn't try at all (Insurrection).

My opinions of the rest of the films are unchanged from when I first saw them. Except seeing TMP on larger and larger TV screens (from 19 inches 30 years ago to 50 inches today), and on the Big Screen in 2019, have made me appreciate the visuals even more.

 

Well...now I feel bad!!

 

I saw it on opening night in a totally empty theatre, it thrilled me also.

The Kolarus III scenes, whilst not great don't bother me as much as some folk, they were just defending themselves after all. It's the contrived nature of the plot and the fact that a dune buggy was introduced at all that bothered me. With the technology at their disposal you'd think they'd have some sort of craft that didn't require wheels. The whole thing came across as a box-tick for inserting an action scene for Stewart. Could have been executed a lot better but I can generally roll with it.

Me neither, I fully expected it to happen before the films release, and there's an argument for it needing to happen I think. Again, the execution was lacking - the space jump was great but the simple 'goodbye' whilst Stewart was just stood around looking like a doofus could have been done better I think, though a prolonged goodbye like TWOK would have been a bit too on the nose considering what the film had already cribbed from it at this point. Now the wine toast scene in Picard's quarters, I found to be very emotional and hit all the right notes for me, as is the wedding scene which gives me a lump in my throat every time I watch it.

Jumbled motives - never got that one. The Romulans spend half the movie demanding that Shinzon attack earth for their continued support. The Scimitar may have been a badass ship but I'm sure Shinzon would still like the Romulan's fleet at his disposal moving forward.

Now the 17 hour wait whilst he needed Picard's blood, that was just dumb and pointless.

As was failure of the Enterprise crew to simply turn the sodding lights up when the Remans board the ship when there's a scene that clearly shows their weakness is just preposterous.

Aside of TMP (which I love) and maybe TVH I want to see a bit of pew pew. Nemesis delivers this in spades in it's third act with the space battle and crash, which I think still looks great and is hugely exciting and entertaining in ways a Trek film hadn't been since TWOK in my view. They really nailed the same feeling of desperation and of all being lost in the same way as the 1982 classic. All deliberate of course.

It's an error/oversight, but it's nowhere near as big an offence as the 'deck 78' from TFF which is way more noticeable. I found the Riker fight to be probably the worst scene in the movie, it was poorly shot and lacked any kind of tension, and the pit where the guy falls was lame AF.

I'd agree with this statement also. Nemesis does look cheap in some places but does have some excellent FX that still hold up well today, I think it feels like a more cinematic film than FC in general, and I think the score is every bit as good too. I enjoy FC, but I like the darker, more adult feeling Nemesis more I think. FC is not without it's problems in the writing department either. I don't think there's much between the two to be honest. Insurrection is nowhere to be seen, and Generations, bar some stunning FX and cinematography isn't as good either.

Been on that thread myself.

To the OP though, has my opinion of it improved? No, not really. I always enjoyed this movie, and it's probably the one I rewatch the most out of the TNG outings, but make it better? I think you answered your own question in that it's nice that it's no longer the footnote of 24th century Trek, or TNG for that matter.

 

I can get on board with this. First Contact is like TWOK in that it is deliberately mean spirited at times. It lacks a sense of fun that people insist TNG had and makes it superior. Nemesis is incredibly fun, and Data's death doesn't bother me because that was the whole point of the character was to experience humanity in a positive way.

It definitely was.

 

Nemesis was an unmitigated flop. Nothing in it makes the least bit of sense. Data is a jerk to his own brother, the way Lore would have been to him. Why wake up B4 just to tell him that he'll be deactivated possibly forever? That's either cruel or totally insensitive, the way Data never was in the past except when he was under some influence.

Everything is stupid and out of place, like there never was any direction or too many (you know, too many cooks)...

I am afraid it's unredeemable.

 

PICARD made good use of what NEMESIS left behind, but that doesn't in any way redeem the film.

 

I think if Nemesis was the first TNG movie it probably would've been better received. But everybody was so cynical about Trek at the point it was released that it had no real chance. I mean, the movie doesn't do itself any favours either, but when you combine iffy plotting with franchise fatigue and cynicism it's going to fail. And fail it did.

 

I think what does is the Villain farting around waiting for the movie to end. He has dinner with Picard after which he mindrapes Troi!!! What the...? How is any of this doing anything to advance his cause? All we have is some perv who wastes his time (and ours) pretending that he's someone he's not to someone who doesn't believe him for one minute... He's pointlessness incarnate!!

 

No, he's just insane.

 

Not really.

Nemesis is mostly a drab, joyless, lifeless film... a Berman Trek style hybrid of The Motion Picture, The Wrath of Khan and The Undiscovered Country.

There's a argument to be made that it's not as 'safe' as the other TNG movies, or as TV-clunky for that matter. It still seems cheaper than First Contact or even Generations for trying to live above its means. The characters feel flat, as if they've only watched themselves in S1 of the series. And the movie's attempts to appear poetic come across as very literal ("You used to look up at the stars and dream of what could be" ... "Other worlds..."). It wants to be epic and somehow profound, but it's this really awkward vampire movie that goes unrealized.

I love most of the widescreen close-ups (except one, it which Stewart held captive aboard the Scimitar appears almost stretched with his broad shoulders), but can't stand a lot of the greens and greys nor just how bloody serious everyone looks.

And STP is just a mess. It doesn't even acknowledge Nemesis more than it has to (nor should it). Data is dead, and Blue Skies gets appropriately replayed. But Picard succumbs to the final stages of his illness conveniently during the season climax, gets transplanted into an android body that's conveniently identical to the one he had and... no.

Too much of the show was just a bunch of moves. You could take out the Borg entirely, which leaves Jeri Ryan mostly wasted. Like STD, STP was mostly ceremony, action, escalation, emotional saturation, magical pseudoscience and convenient contrivances. Kurtzman Trek in a nutshell. It couldn't change my opinion about a mostly lackluster movie, except to pay brief homage to its better moments.

And the Nemesis soundtrack is quite good, but like Insurrection I don't care for some of the synthesized influences. It doesn't compare to Goldsmith's TOS movie scores.