Any OZ fans here?

[Capt. Vulcan]

Just watched the first episode myself. Thought it was interesting. Not on the level of something like the wire, but still good. Lots of familiar faces on the show, who I assume got their start on Oz.

 

[DevilEyes]

Just watched the first episode myself. Thought it was interesting. Not on the level of something like the wire, but still good. Lots of familiar faces on the show, who I assume got their start on Oz.

A lot of them previously guest starred on Homicide:LOTS (and Jon Seda was a regular; BTW, funny how both Oz and The Shield had former H:LOTS regulars playing characters who seem to be central before they meet a surprising death at the end of the very first episode), which Tom Fontana previously worked on. Also, many Oz actors were also on various Law & Order shows - some of them were filming both shows at the same time. (This is why Meloni had to take some time off from Oz.)

BTW, speaking of Fontana, can anyone think of another TV series where the series creator wrote or co-wrote literally every episode? It seems to be a really rare case.

 

[Top41]

Just watched the first episode myself. Thought it was interesting. Not on the level of something like the wire, but still good. Lots of familiar faces on the show, who I assume got their start on Oz.

Oh, very cool! Think you'll stick with it? I like it more and more as it goes on.

A lot of them previously guest starred on Homicide:LOTS (and Jon Seda was a regular; BTW, funny how both Oz and The Shield had former H:LOTS regulars playing characters who seem to be central before they meet a surprising death at the end of the very first episode), which Tom Fontana previously worked on. Also, many Oz actors were also on various Law & Order shows - some of them were filming both shows at the same time. (This is why Meloni had to take some time off from Oz.)

Interesting--I didn't realize SVU and Oz were concurrent. When does Meloni take time off? I just met his character, Keller, and I really like him... even if he is up to no good.

BTW, speaking of Fontana, can anyone think of another TV series where the series creator wrote or co-wrote literally every episode? It seems to be a really rare case.

Ally McBeal, at least in the beginning. I remember being surprised that like every episode was written by David E. Kelley. Not sure if that's the way it is on all of his shows or not.

So I watched two more episodes! The fourth and the fifth of the second season. Poor Augustus... he really got his hopes up for getting out. I felt for Said, too... I think he had an agenda, but I felt like he was genuinely trying to get Augustus out. Do we ever find out any more about his ex-fiancee (the prosecutor)?

I also liked that Said and McManus were able to put aside their differences to help Poet. Is Poet out for good? I was so disappointed when he kept doing drugs, even after learning he was going to be paroled. I was worried Kenny was setting him up to get caught with drugs, but I was glad to see he wasn't.

The Schibetta-Adebisi-Alvarez power struggle triangle does not seem destined to end well.

I like McManus a lot, but I think he's kind of being a dick to Diane. I mean, she did shoot Ross in part in defense of McManus. It seems unfair for him to be so judgmental of her. Wouldn't Ross have probably killed McManus if Diane hadn't shot him?

Oh man... so O'Reilly had his brother kill the doctor's husband? Messed up... she seemed to be into him at first, but quickly figured out he's more than a little twisted. Where is his wife in all of this? I assume this is what lands his brother in Oz.

Poor Beecher!! Keller seems to actually be getting him back to sanity somewhat, but of course, Keller is just playing him for Schillinger. Is it all a ploy, or does Keller genuinely care for Beecher at all? Schillinger is such a sick mofo... I swear he was getting off watching them wrestling. I gotta say, I know he's a baddie, but I can totally see why Keller is getting past Beecher's defenses; he's crazy sexy and seems so sympathetic and caring. Beecher still doesn't really like being touched, but I notice he did let Keller touch him in the last episode I watched. I'm worried about what Keller is going to do once Beecher really gives it up, which from the preview looks like it's coming in the next episode.... It really didn't take long, but I guess it makes sense, given all the cruelty Beecher has met with since being in Oz. After all of that, any little kindness must seem like a big deal. Poor Beecher.

 

[Hermiod]

Beecher gets to the point where he doesn't care if he's playing with fire, he's too far gone to care - I guess where you are in the series, he's already hit that point?

Yeah, I think that's the point where I'm at. Beecher's all sing-songy and making up rhymes. He definitely seems like he's lost his grip on reality. I don't think he's on drugs anymore... he's just kind of crazy. And yet not totally crazy--when he tells Augustus about Schillinger plotting to kill him and how Schillinger played right into his plan, it's obvious that he was sane enough to have a plan. I'd just think he'd realize at some point that messing with Schillinger is just not a good idea.

Such a change from how Beecher was in season one, too... he was so passive. He'd say no, but Schillinger would push and he'd cave. It's quite a turn.

Schillinger can't touch Beecher for the simple reason that if anything happened to him, he would be the obvious chief suspect and thanks to Governor Devlin that means a fast track to the death penalty.

Oh, and in terms of series creators writing every episode - J. Michael Straczynski wrote the lions share of Babyon 5 - 92 out of 110 episodes.

 

[DevilEyes]

Interesting--I didn't realize SVU and Oz were concurrent. When does Meloni take time off? I just met his character, Keller, and I really like him... even if he is up to no good.

I'd spoil stuff if I told you that... But it's not any time soon.

So I watched two more episodes! The fourth and the fifth of the second season. Poor Augustus... he really got his hopes up for getting out. I felt for Said, too... I think he had an agenda, but I felt like he was genuinely trying to get Augustus out. Do we ever find out any more about his ex-fiancee (the prosecutor)?

No, she never reappears, although she's mentioned in a later episode. But there are some great storylines in store for Said, and they may or may not involve a love interest... Keep watching...

Is Poet out for good?

Keep watching...

Is it all a ploy, or does Keller genuinely care for Beecher at all?

Keep watching...

 

[Timewalker]

Is it all a ploy, or does Keller genuinely care for Beecher at all?

Keep watching...

The relationships among some of these characters seem utterly Shakespearean at times. My personal opinion is that yes, Keller really does genuinely love Beecher, but it's a twisted kind of love that could only make sense in a twisted setting such as Oz.

 

[Top41]

Schillinger can't touch Beecher for the simple reason that if anything happened to him, he would be the obvious chief suspect and thanks to Governor Devlin that means a fast track to the death penalty.

So I guess that's why Schillinger is getting Keller to pull the mind fuck on Beecher (at least, that's where I assume it's going) rather than physically hurting him?

No, she never reappears, although she's mentioned in a later episode. But there are some great storylines in store for Said, and they may or may not involve a love interest... Keep watching...

Interesting! I really do like Said--he's a fascinating character. And I am definitely going to keep watching...

The relationships among some of these characters seem utterly Shakespearean at times. My personal opinion is that yes, Keller really does genuinely love Beecher, but it's a twisted kind of love that could only make sense in a twisted setting such as Oz.

I hope so! I just finished watching episode six of the second season where Beecher told Keller he loved him, and Keller said it back. It would have been so sweet, had I not known that Keller is totally playing Beecher. Poor Beecher--there's something so sweet and vulnerable about him. When he kissed the mirror, I felt so bad for him--he's just so... fragile, I guess. I mean, it's easy to see why he'd fall for Keller. Keller basically rode up and has been essentially playing the white knight to Beecher: comforting him after his nightmares, trying to find a way to get rid of his tattoo, telling him he hates Schillinger for what he did to him. Is it any wonder Beecher totally took the bait? I'm worried about what Keller is going to do now that he's basically broken through Beecher's defenses. Am I going to hate Keller???

Two random observations: sooooo glad Beecher's crazy beard is gone. He's adorable, but that beard needed to go. And ummmm... Keller is hung. He'd better be gentle if he does sleep with Beecher!

I love that Said kind of fucked Schillinger over by taking his case and then dropping it after he realized the evidence against Schillinger was totally overwhelming. I think he was sincere about taking the case initially, which says a lot about Said's character. Not many people would step up to defend a bigot like Schillinger, and fair enough. He's an ass!

OK, gotta admit, I was kind of thinking this show wasn't nearly as graphic as people had built it up to be. I mean, we knew Schillinger was raping Beecher regularly first season, but they never came close to showing it. So much for just alluding to it, though, at least in this episode! I think it's safe to say Adebisi showed Schibetta. Schibetta was such a little punk, but still, that was a pretty terrible thing that happened to him.

That Mayor Devlin sure is the teflon man--nothing sticks to that guy! The actor who plays him is awesome--I've seen him in so many other things, and seriously, he rocks whatever role he plays.

I'm glad McManus didn't sell Diane out. Even if it was murder when she shot Ross, she still did it defending McManus!

I thought the storyline about Sister Peter Marie finding out who killed her husband was a little weak, given that we saw in the initial flashback that that crazy dude (forgetting his name now) witnessed the murder. And her husband didn't fall off a truck--he was pushed in front of one! Meh. That didn't need to last three episodes.

Man, O'Reilly is one twisted SOB. His poor brother is in jail now! I'm guessing life is not going to be so easy for him there.

 

[Timewalker]

Am I going to hate Keller???

At some point, definitely. I know I did.

ummmm... Keller is hung. He'd better be gentle if he does sleep with Beecher!

Which scene was that - the shower scene or the solitary confinement one? Or the one where Keller is standing naked in the pod in the middle of the night... come to think of it, there were several memorable scenes! My poor dad, walking in and seeing me seeing that guy on TV... I do know I had a difficult time taking his Law & Order character seriously at first!

Man, O'Reilly is one twisted SOB. His poor brother is in jail now! I'm guessing life is not going to be so easy for him there.

No, it definitely isn't. Cyril should have been sent to a psychiatric prison unit instead of Oz.

 

[Top41]

Am I going to hate Keller???

At some point, definitely. I know I did.

If he hurts Beecher, I know I'm going to.

ummmm... Keller is hung. He'd better be gentle if he does sleep with Beecher!

Which scene was that - the shower scene or the solitary confinement one? Or the one where Keller is standing naked in the pod in the middle of the night... come to think of it, there were several memorable scenes! My poor dad, walking in and seeing me seeing that guy on TV... I do know I had a difficult time taking his Law & Order character seriously at first!

LOL, I noticed in the shower and in the hole, but there was a time before that, too, in either episode four or five. I was like, damn. And he wasn't even, um, excited.

Keller seemed more or less normal until he went nuts after the guards interrupted his kiss with Beecher. I don't know if it was because he was drunk or because he was just in the mood for a fight, but man, he unleashed on those guys! I imagine the next time I see an ep of Law & Order SVU, I'll look at him a bit differently, too.

Man, O'Reilly is one twisted SOB. His poor brother is in jail now! I'm guessing life is not going to be so easy for him there.

No, it definitely isn't. Cyril should have been sent to a psychiatric prison unit instead of Oz.

Yeah, I don't get why he wasn't taken to one, honestly. It's pretty obvious he's not all there.

 

[Hermiod]

So I guess that's why Schillinger is getting Keller to pull the mind fuck on Beecher (at least, that's where I assume it's going) rather than physically hurting him?

Pretty much, there's a recurring theme of Schillinger and Beecher attacking others to get to each other.

 

[byron lomax]

I thought the storyline about Sister Peter Marie finding out who killed her husband was a little weak, given that we saw in the initial flashback that that crazy dude (forgetting his name now) witnessed the murder. And her husband didn't fall off a truck--he was pushed in front of one! Meh. That didn't need to last three episodes.

I agree that that was probably the weakest story in the otherwise-stellar second season. It just comes across as way too convoluted. I do like that crazy little guy, though - he's a fun character every time he pops up.

 

[DevilEyes]

I think you're going to both love and hate Keller... love one moment, hate the next moment, or both at the same time. I had this experience with both Keller and O'Reilly.

The thing about Beecher is that, while he is so vulnerable especially at the start of the show, and goes through a lot of awful things (though he partly has himself to blame for some of it), he's a lot tougher than he seems at first... Schillinger has already learned that lesson the hard way.

And you can be sure that this was not the last time Keller has shown his stuff on Oz. And boy, does he have something to show. You get to see pretty much everyone naked at some point or another, but I think Keller might have broken the record for the number of times he was nude onscreen.

Has Shirley Bellinger already appeared on the show? I wonder what you think of her? I though she was such a wonderfully crazy, screwed-up, creepy and tragic character.

This show has a way of making you feel sympathy for the unlikeliest of people. You'll even get to see surprising new sides to Adebisi soon.

Things are going to get really awful near the end of season 2, and you'll get to see another example of just how graphic this show is.

Oh, and obvious pun, Governer Devlin = Devil.

 

[Hermiod]

^Bellinger makes her debut in season two.

 

[Top41]

^ETA: Yeah, Shirley Bellinger showed up in episode 4 I think? There's definitely something really compelling about her. She's kind of creepy flirty with everyone who comes by her cell. And Adebisi and she have started exchanging love letters! I did not see that coming.

And yeah, despite the fact that he can be really evil, there's something I like about Adebisi. Maybe it's his "I just don't care" attitude. Such a fun character. And yeah, what he did to Schibetta was awful, but Schibetta was definitely a little punk. When he and the other Italian dude ganged up on Adebisi (with the help of a guard!), I was rooting for Adebisi!

Pretty much, there's a recurring theme of Schillinger and Beecher attacking others to get to each other.

Interesting... it sounds like McManus's suggestion to Beecher when he was in the hole that he should forgive Schillinger for raping him was actually perhaps the best course of action. That was another thing I thought was interesting--Schillinger picking up on similarities between Beecher and McManus. I'm not so sure McManus could have forgiven Schillinger either, despite what he said to Beecher.

I agree that that was probably the weakest story in the otherwise-stellar second season. It just comes across as way too convoluted. I do like that crazy little guy, though - he's a fun character every time he pops up.

Yeah, I like the actor! I just got tired of seeing Sister Pete struggling to put together something that had already been revealed to the audience right off the bat. It was bad storytelling more than anything else, I think.

I think you're going to both love and hate Keller... love one moment, hate the next moment, or both at the same time. I had this experience with both Keller and O'Reilly.

Yeah, there's something massively appealing and seductive about both. They're both charming--and they want what they want, and they don't care who they have to screw over to get it. Definitely both alpha males, these two. It seems like Keller wanted to prove he could seduce Beecher as much as he wanted to help out Schillinger for some reason. And Beecher really is kind of a challenge--yeah, he caved in a few episodes (though I think a fair amount of time passed), but you can tell he's totally still not comfortable being touched. The actor who plays him is really good at having Beecher flinch every time Keller touches him.

The thing about Beecher is that, while he is so vulnerable especially at the start of the show, and goes through a lot of awful things (though he partly has himself to blame for some of it), he's a lot tougher than he seems at first... Schillinger has already learned that lesson the hard way.

Yeah, definitely... he's totally emotionally (and physically) vulnerable, but he's also something of a survivor. For all that Schillinger did to him in the first season obviously damaged him (probably permanently), it didn't completely break him. I wonder what effect Keller turning on him will have--whether it will break him or fuel the anger he called on after Schillinger's savagery finally got to be too much for him.

And you can be sure that this was not the last time Keller has shown his stuff on Oz. And boy, does he have something to show. You get to see pretty much everyone naked at some point or another, but I think Keller might have broken the record for the number of times he was nude onscreen.

LOL, well, if the man's got it, he should flaunt it! I love his swagger, lol.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

And yeah, what he did to Schibetta was awful, but Schibetta was definitely a little punk. When he and the other Italian dude ganged up on Adebisi (with the help of a guard!), I was rooting for Adebisi!

You're mean! I felt bad for Schibetta because after all, he was just trying to take what he felt was his rightful place as the Mafia princeling. Obviously he doesn't have what it takes and needs to find another line of work, but I imagine that would be difficult for him to accept, having been groomed since childhood for the job. All that macho bs, poor guy. Keep watching his story, he definitely doesn't give up (long after the point where he really should have) but unlike Beecher, he really doesn't have unexpected reservoirs of crazy strength. He's just crazy and rather sad.

I'm not so sure McManus could have forgiven Schillinger either, despite what he said to Beecher.

McManus is a mealy-mouthed hypocrite!

 

[Top41]

You're mean! I felt bad for Schibetta because after all, he was just trying to take what he felt was his rightful place as the Mafia princeling. Obviously he doesn't have what it takes and needs to find another line of work, but I imagine that would be difficult for him to accept, having been groomed since childhood for the job. All that macho bs, poor guy. Keep watching his story, he definitely doesn't give up (long after the point where he really should have) but unlike Beecher, he really doesn't have unexpected reservoirs of crazy strength. He's just crazy and rather sad.

LOL, I am mean! But it was three against one! That Adebisi is a tough mofo. I'll probably have more sympathy for Schibetta Jr. as time goes on, but in his intro he was such a little privileged punk. The mafia didn't seem too impressed with him even before what happened with Adebisi, though.

McManus is a mealy-mouthed hypocrite!

Heh, he kind of is! Love him in some ways, but he can get a little self-righteous. I'm not sure not allowing Kenny to graduate was the right way to go with him. And the stuff with Diane--she saved your life, dude! And then when he wouldn't help Beecher out--it was so because of what Schillinger said about him and Beecher being similar.

Does no one come down on these inmates for rape, though? I mean, I'm guessing Schibetta won't accuse Adebisi for pride reasons, but Beecher has no bones about telling people that Schillinger raped him. No consequences? It seemed like all of the prison officials--even Sister Pete!--knew Schillinger was raping Beecher, and no one even thought to, I don't know, move one of them to another pod??? Is that realistic?

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Does no one come down on these inmates for rape, though? I mean, I'm guessing Schibetta won't accuse Adebisi for pride reasons, but Beecher has no bones about telling people that Schillinger raped him. No consequences? It seemed like all of the prison officials--even Sister Pete!--knew Schillinger was raping Beecher, and no one even thought to, I don't know, move one of them to another pod??? Is that realistic?

I'm no expert, but my strong hunch is that this show really exaggerates things in order to keep coming up with as much awful shit as possible.

 

[Timewalker]

Whenever an inmate complains about something, the first thing that happens is that McManus asks for proof - did anybody see it happen, and are they willing to testify? If the answer to either question is anything other than a definite "yes" McManus just shrugs and says he can't do anything.

 

[Top41]

I'm no expert, but my strong hunch is that this show really exaggerates things in order to keep coming up with as much awful shit as possible.

That's kind of what I figured. At the very least, they seem pretty lax about looking out for the prisoners.

Whenever an inmate complains about something, the first thing that happens is that McManus asks for proof - did anybody see it happen, and are they willing to testify? If the answer to either question is anything other than a definite "yes" McManus just shrugs and says he can't do anything.

Yeah, I just watched another episode and witnessed that!! Episode seven of season two--Napa wanted something done about Schibetta's rape but no one was willing to testify, so McManus basically did exactly what you described. I gotta admit, I go back and forth on him. His whining about lying under oath pissed me off. And his request that Diane transfer?? I wanted to punch him in the face.

Schillinger is so evil! I can't believe he raped Cyril. Seriously, is there any (white) guy that dude won't stick his dick in?? Good for Ryan for rescuing Cyril--clever plan, but I think he needs to confess to having Cyril murder Nathan's husband so that he can get Cyril in Oz. I liked him in this episode.

I thought it was very sweet how everyone (except for Kenny, who pissed me off in this ep ) gave Rebadow money for his grandson to go to Disney World. The whole "escaping from Oz" thing seems a bit far-fetched to me, but given that the new ep (the final one of the second season) is called "Escape from Oz" I guess that's all finally going to come to a head.

I felt so bad for Adebisi when Shirley Bellinger rejected him! Poor guy. Not that his "suck my dick" come on was that romantic, but the cupcake was sweet.

Did Schillinger really have Beecher's wife killed?? Will we ever find out the answer to that?

Without Keller around, Beecher is kind of crazy again. I guess it's missing Keller and what Schillinger said to him that makes him go back to the bottle yet again. That's kind of what I mean about him being fragile... I realize he's holding his own and surviving, but emotionally, he's pretty needy and weak. He was a mess before Keller came along, and then Keller says a few nice things to him, holds him a few times and suddenly Beecher is in love.

Poet is back!! I guess that's good for the actor , but definitely a quick turnaround for that guy. He wasn't out of jail long.

One more episode of second season to go! I might watch tonight, or tomorrow morning. This show really is addictive.

 

[Timewalker]

Did Schillinger really have Beecher's wife killed?? Will we ever find out the answer to that?

I don't remember, but Beecher's kids and dad get mixed up in this crazy show, too... it probably should have been called "The Perils of Tobias"!

After seeing everything Shirley Bellinger does on this show, I could never force myself to watch Law & Order: Criminal Intent. There's just no way I could reconcile the actress with being one of the "good guys".

Side note: Every person I've ever encountered in my life whose name is/was "Shirley" has been totally wacko... no offense intended if any forum member's real name is Shirley, of course.