Any OZ fans here?

I really loved that scene too. Every prisoner giving their own contribution to Rebadow. O'Reilly can sympathise due to his medical problems, Nappa can sympathise as a grandfather, Schillinger giving it in an awkward way... lots of good character moments. Even Adebisi gives a kind of "contribution"

The last episode of season two is simply amazing. All of the storylines are brought to their ultimate conclusion and the results are just thrilling to watch.

 

Oh wow--man, poor Beecher. The guy really did destroy his life in that one instant.

She is so creepy! Really like the character--she's so interesting and twisted.

It was a rare moment of real sweetness for the show! I kind of felt bad for the inmates that Redabow wanted the contributions to be anonymous... it felt like they should have gotten credit in a way.

I just watched it--man was that a good episode!! And ok, I finally see what you guys mean when you say it's graphic! One guy gets crucified, another gets his eyes gouged out, Beecher gets his arms and legs broken...

OK, Keller's a twisted fuck. Seriously... how on earth could he have done that to Beecher, after seeing all the shit Beecher was dealing with? The nightmares, the death of his wife, Schillinger... man, that was beyond cold. I felt SO bad for Beecher when he was pleading with Keller to tell him what was wrong, wanting to know why Keller didn't want him. I thought it was so sweet that Beecher slept in Keller's bed after Keller got dragged off to the hole, but now... they seriously have a relationship after this?? How do you forgive someone breaking both of your arms purposefully and cruelly??

And Keller leaning over Beecher's bed after it was all over--he feels bad now?? What's with that? Same thing with that whiny Alvarez--he cuts a guy's eyes out and then whine and rants about not being able to handle solitary??? Ugh, all my hatred for him came back. He didn't seem to give a rat's ass about the guy's eyes he gouged out, but oh, boo hoo, he's going to be in solitary for a while.

Schillinger, thy name is hypocrisy. He's disgusted by the priest who molested a teenage boy, but thinks it's fine to rape a guy with the mind of a five-year-old? To say nothing of what he did to Beecher.... That guy has a lot of nerve. It's hard to say who is the baddest of the bunch, but he might be my top pick.

Glad O'Reilly finally confessed--nice to see him own up to getting his brother to kill Nathan's husband. Of course, he's back to his old tricks, manipulating the Italians and Adebisi's gang.

I wasn't crazy about the old guy converting Adebisi so easily, but it was nice to see another side to Adebisi, and to see him kick the drugs.

Glad the whole escape tunnel thing was dealt with in the first five minutes or so. Nice to see those neo-Nazis get theirs. I did feel bad for the old guys, but I'm glad they got off the hook!

OK, Metzger is all kinds of evil. Please tell me he gets his!!! I'm glad McManus finally seemed to be on to him towards the end of the episode, but man, that guy is just sick.

Overall, great second season and I can't wait to start the third!

 

No. We're left to make up our own minds.

Personally, I think she really killed herself and Schillinger was just bullshitting and screwing with Beecher's mind, feeling that he gets more of a revenge on him if he convinces Beecher that his misfortune is due to Schillinger. If he had killed her, I think the show would've been less ambiguous about it, and having seen season 4 Schillinger's dealings, I don't really believe that Schillinger has the means or the people to organize such a perfect crime that wouldn't draw any suspicion.

Actually, Beecher hates his guts after that and doesn't want to hear about even forgiving him. Keller has to work pretty hard to change his mind. You'll see how it all goes in season 3.

Season 3 is... very interesting for Beecher. You'll be surprised just how much that guy has changed since he first came to Oz. The weirdest thing is, I happened to catch an early season 3 episode on TV before I started watching the show from the start - and, as I remembered S3 Beecher very well, I was completely shocked to see the naive, meek, strait-laced bespectacled lawyer he when he came to Oz. It was almost unbelievable that it was the same guy.

I had no sympathy for him, either. I'm not even sure that it makes things any better than he didn't do it out of hatred for the guard, but because he was such a wuss that he couldn't say no to Hernandez. It makes him even more despicable in some ways.

Truer words were never spoken.

I think that's why Adebisi sort of comes off as a bit more likable than Schillinger, even though they're both really, really bad in their different ways... Adebisi is something like a force of nature, he's just out for himself and his pleasure, and in season 1 he seems like an embodiment of the animalistic side of Oz - violence, sex, drugs (though he gets more complicated later - you've just seen his
"sensitive" side, and he'll get much more dangerous when he shows that he's also a lot more clever than people might think!), but he knows what he is and doesn't pretend to be noble and have "values". He's no hypocrite. As you said... he just has the "I don't care" attitude.

Metzger and the two neo-Nazis were perhaps the only one-dimensional villains in the show (well, maybe we could count Devlin there, too). But those two who ended up in the tunnel were also stupid and silly - I laughed so hard when they died! It was one of those sweet moments of satisfaction one gets out of fictional deaths... and trust me, there will be more of those.

It seems that your feelings about the characters on the show mostly seem to be very similar to mine.

Oh, and BTW, has Schillinger already complained to someone about mispronouncing his last name? I remember it happens a few times and annoys him a lot. Isn't it hilariously ironic that the only guy in Oz who gets the pronounciation 100% right is Said?

 

That was kind of the impression I got, too--that Schillinger really just said it to be cruel. And seriously--he will take any opportunity to hurt Beecher that he can. Beecher's fighting back only seems to encourage it, but Schillinger is just damn obsessed with him.

I just saw the first episode of season three and I was cheering Beecher on when he was responding to Keller's "apology." Are we supposed to believe Keller really does love Beecher, and he's sincere? Because it feels like it's more of just a challenge for him--can he get Beecher to forgive him for this horrible betrayal. I wasn't super-surprised he confessed.

Really, Beecher should have asked Keller to kill Schillinger. That way he would have solved two problems at once! I have a feeling Keller is not going to give up.

Oh interesting--I can't wait! There's definitely a hardness to him when he comes back from the hospital. It feels like his walls are really up. I can't believe he killed Metzger with his fingernails!! I was so cheering him on though. I hope that can be counted as self-defense if he gets caught, though. I think it was pretty clear Metzger was going to hurt or even kill him, and Beecher was definitely in danger.

Yes, exactly. And now he's whining in solitary because the guards aren't feeding him and he's so lonely. Ugh. I can't stand him. He brought it all on himself! What he did to that CO was so twisted--and yeah, he did it because he's a wuss.

Yes! Exactly. There's something I really like about Adebisi. He is what he is and he works the system shamelessly. And now he seems to have changed--I'm curious to see if he really has or not.

Schillinger is just kind of sick. He gets off on tormenting people. I think that's why Beecher is so fucked up. If he'd stayed in the cell with Adebisi, I'm sure Adebisi would have raped him. But that probably would have been it. Whereas Schillinger wasn't just raping him--he was systematically stripping away everything that made Beecher Beecher, and getting a sadistic pleasure from it. And he's still doing it--he could have gotten some of his Nazi thugs to get Beecher in the gym and break his limbs. But no--he wanted to get Beecher to trust someone, to care about someone, and then have that guy hurt Beecher. He's really twisted.

The thing with the priest was pretty damn twisted, too. Crucifying the guy in the gym? The righteous air Schillinger took with the guy really pissed me off, too. While I think the show went a little too far out of its way to paint the priest in a good light, the things Schillinger does to people are even more evil. And the priest at least felt bad about it. Schillinger never does.

Yes, I felt the same!! I was so glad Bushmalis and Rebadow found a way to get them. All of their hard work, though...

It does! Such a fun show to discuss, too.

I think he maybe complained once? I can't remember. I think Metzger kind of mispronounced Said's name--he said it a lot closer to how it's spelled than "Sayeed." I got the feeling he did it on purpose, too--a lot of disdain there. Man, I'm glad Metzger is dead.

 

No, I meant, Schillinger hates it when people mispronounce his name, but I remember that even some of his "Aryans" mispronounced it, while Said was the guy who always pronounced "Schillinger" exactly the right way.

Yeah, that was the death I knew you'd feel satisfied with he he. I sure did.

 

Oh, yes--I see what you mean. And ha, true! I think McManus and Beecher mispronounce it. Said treats Schillinger with way more dignity than he deserves.

Oh yes. Will anyone find out that Beecher did it?

I watched another episode--the second of the third season. Man, do I hate Alvarez. I watched the preview for the next episode, so I know he's not dead, but honestly, I sympathize with Glynn on this one. And I'm sorry--how many times is he going to attack Mukada before the priest finally gets fed up with him? He hung him out to dry during the riot, took him hostage after blinding the CO, attacked him in solitary after Mukada brought him a sandwich--seriously, what is it going to take? Ugh, I can't stand Alvarez.

Adebisi--OMG!! I thought there was something a little fishy about him wanting to work on the AIDS ward. Man, is he good!! He had me convinced for a while. I guess he got Napa with that needle... wow. He is definitely more clever and patient than he gets credit for.

Well, I have officially met Howell, lol. There is something kind of evil about her. She went psycho on McManus! I guess he's got her number now at least.

Good for Augustus for turning Snake in. Snake seems... well, like he lives up to his name. I hope no one will retaliate against Augustus.

I guess Keller is not going to give up on Beecher. If it hadn't been for the fact that I know what Keller did to Beecher, I would have found what he was saying pretty romantic and sweet, but Beecher is right--how can he let his guard down with Keller after what Keller did?

Was it Schillinger (or one of his guys) who stabbed Keller, or was it Beecher?

 

Damn, I hate the bad economy and having been strapped for cash. Now I wish I didn't sell all my Oz DVDs.

This used to be my favorite show. It's great reading first reactions and I feel like re-watching the series for old time's sake. Can't wait to see what you think of the developments that are about to happen.

 

Would it help to know that he has lots of comeuppance in the future?

You know one of the things that bugs me about this guy? By the end of the series, we never do get to find out how he keeps that ridiculous little hat on his head! Invisible duct tape, is my theory.

Beecher basically suffers from "battered wife syndrome" in Oz. No matter how much crap Keller dishes out to him, Beecher sooner or later goes back to him because of the "Aw, honey, I love you and I'm sorry, and I promise I'll never hurt you again" sort of lines Keller gives him, either in words or in actions. That's not to say, however, that Beecher is a 'submissive woman' kind of guy - it's the kind of abusive situation that can screw up anybody's psychology, male or female, young or old.

And believe it or not, at some point (forget which season) you'll see that even Schillinger has a (tiny) soft spot hidden away in his evil psyche!

 

It's totally awesome that you guys who have seen it are coming here to discuss it with me! I'm so into it. Nothing that's currently on the air has me nearly as fired up as Oz does.

It does. I seriously want to punch him in the face every time I see him whining about how hard his life is in solitary. I cannot stand him.

That hat is something else! And he sticks all sorts of things in his hair... forks, pencils, etc. It cracks me up.

Yeah, I wondered if that was going to be the case. As tough as Beecher can be--and right now in the third season, there is a hardness to him--at his core he seems to be a caring, genuinely good guy. And he's been through so much abuse... I doubt Keller's lines would work on a healthy person, but I think Beecher craves affection, and Keller's obsession probably does seem like love to him. And Keller is a really smooth talker--the way he went up to Beecher and talked about how they only had kissed once and all he could think about was kissing Beecher again--I can see why Beecher would cave after a while. Is Keller ever genuinely good to him?

Oh wow! That might surprise me more than anything!

I just finished episodes three and four of the third season. Schillinger's son Andy has just arrived in Oz, and Beecher has befriended him. I really wonder where this is going--I know Beecher thinks he can use Andy to get back at Schillinger, but I really do wonder if Beecher has it in him. I just don't know that he's capable of that kind of cruelty... and I really hope he isn't.

So I guess Beecher shanked Keller? Can't say Keller didn't deserve it. I guess Keller isn't giving up on Beecher--now he's going to try to use the victim/assailant program that Sister Pete is setting up to get Beecher back. There's a slight stalkerish vibe to Keller. I'll admit it, he's got a real appeal to him... clearly dangerous, but he is sexy.

I felt so bad for Richie! He finally got off of death row, and then he ended up dying for the murder he didn't even commit. Did he implicate Schillinger? I assume not, since Schillinger wasn't arrested... or maybe they just had no proof?

Shirley Bellinger has the same kind of appeal Keller does--there's something very attractive about her, but also clearly deadly. She's a really interesting character, especially in the way the story about her daughter changes depending on who she's talking to.

Does Mukada have a thing for Alvarez? I swear, he gives that punk more chances than he deserves.

OK, maybe O'Reilly fixing the boxing was wrong, but I loved it when Robson and Alvarez got their asses kicked. That ruled. The boxing storyline overall is kind of dull though.

Kenny is only 18? He's so young! Just when I was starting to hate him completely, they bring out the thing about his kid. Not sure having his wife and her boyfriend killed is the answer, but I get him wanting to protect his child.

I really like the storyline with Said and Ross's sister. There's a real sweetness to it. It seems like he's stopped fighting his attraction to her and is giving into it by seeing her. I wonder where that's going to go...?

 

I watched two more episode--the fifth and sixth of the third season. Totally can't believe Schillinger orchestrated his own son's OD!! That man seriously has no soul. I'm glad Beecher didn't cross the line with Andy and do something evil to him, and I hope some of this religious stuff he's investigating with Said is because he feels remorse for what happened to Andy.

So is Keller playing Sister Pete? And to what end? He's really a fascinating sociopath--totally compelling despite the fact that he seems to have more than a little evil in him! The way he was watching Beecher pray in his pod from across the way gave me chills. He's such a stalker! He definitely has that obsessed "I must have him" stare down. I don't think he's going to give up on Beecher, but I want to know his angle with Sister Pete.

Random aside--how many times are we going to see that flashback with Schillinger burning the tattoo onto Beecher's ass? I feel like they show it in every other episode. Definitely the number-one most flashed back to scene, lol. I was listening to the commentary for episode one of the first season and Tom Fontana was saying it wasn't even in the original script, but the director said that was something that had to be shown! They sure have gotten a lot of mileage out of it.

Ryan O'Reily is seriously the king of manipulators. He does it so damn well--the way he played the two Russians and the Sicilians against each other. And he always seems to come out unscathed! Same with the Latinos taking his drugs--he turned around and got them busted. I think he would be one of the guys I would want to steer clear of in jail.

WTF is Khan doing in jail anyway?? He saved a woman from a rapist--and he got 10 years for that? That's just wrong.

I feel really bad for Said. The only reason his people turned on him was because he was consorting with white people--it's not like his faith had faltered in the least. I imagine he'll regain control of the group before too long, but I do feel bad for him.

McManus is really getting screwed, but I have to say, he really is the office slut. He's slept with 3/4 women at his office... and the fourth is a nun!! Still, that Howell is crazy.

Is Adebisi raping Kenny? What is his angle with him? Just to torment him and show him who's boss?

I want to punch Alvarez in the face every time I see him on screen. Seriously. I hate him. He's so annoying and whiny and it's obvious that the only person he feels bad for is himself. When does he go away for a while?? Please tell me it's soon!

I'll probably finish up season three tomorrow. I love this show!! Happy new year, everyone.

 

You know, when you started this thread, I predicted that you'd post your opinions on each episode with increased frequency, with the possibility that you'd write in to comment on two or more episodes at once. And I was right! Oz really is amazingly addictive, I don't think any other show matches it for that factor at least.

I really liked that scene, Ryan O'Reilly at the receiving end for once. But of course he got to turn things to his advantage once again.

 

So "Jesus" hasn't showed up yet, right? lol. I love this show. It's on my list of the best shows ever (in no particular order):

1. 24
2. Buffy
3. Angel
4. Lost
5. Supernatural
7. Star Trek
8. The Boondocks
9. Justice League
10. Fox's X-Men cartoon series of the 90's

 

It is so addictive! I finish one episode and I immediately want to go on to the next. I'll probably do a marathon when I get back from winter break.

Yeah, he never seems to be at a disadvantage for long.

Sounds like we have a lot of favs in common--1-4 and 7 are on my list, too. And no "Jesus" yet!

I just finished watching the seventh episode of the third season. Cliffhanger!! Man, that fight!! I can't believe Beecher actually forgave Schillinger. Keller, yeah--the guy has been trying to make amends/get in his pants all season, but Schillinger is pretty much his mortal enemy. I'm glad Beecher feels bad about his part in Andy's death, though it was tangential compared to what Schillinger did! Figures Schillinger would hold him completely responsible, the ass.

Man, once Keller gets fixated, he does not give up, does he? I can't believe his whole thing with Sister Pete was just one big manipulation to get her to help him get Beecher back. He's obsessed, and damn... this show does kind of make that hot. I have to say, I wonder if he'd be as fixated if Beecher didn't put him off for so long... it definitely seemed like the thrill of the chase, of pursuing Beecher even when Beecher was telling him no, just inflamed his desire. The fact that he wanted to kill Said because he thought Said was standing between him and Beecher makes me think nothing is going to stop him until he has his way and gets Beecher back for real.

McManus is totally being railroaded! Why is Adebisi so determined to get rid of him? I totally want McManus and Diane to get back together, though. Loved when she kissed him in front of Howell!

I didn't feel any sympathy for Alvarez in the meeting with the CO he blinded, but at least he didn't whine about his pain and how hard his life is for once. Cool to see Judy Reyes from Scrubs in a dramatic role--she's really good!

Is Sister Pete really going to stop being a nun?? Keller really played her--I definitely felt bad for her. There is something really seductive about the guy, and I see why she was drawn in. That guy knows how to play people like fiddles--he's fascinating, and scary. If he and Beecher do get together--and I imagine it's headed that way, especially after he saved Beecher from Schillinger--I wonder if Beecher will have a positive influence on him. There's something inherently good about Beecher--I wonder if that's part of what attracts Keller to him.

The boxing stuff is still kind of annoying. It's less interesting when O'Reilly isn't throwing the fights. At least then there was some intrigue to it.

I'm glad that Glynn didn't kill that other CO--I figured he didn't, but I imagine it was a hard thing to confess to his son that it was his fault that his dad got killed. That guy, Clayton, is super incompetent, though. Can't believe he went after O'Reilly and then ended up clocking Diane! I feel like he'd probably be gone if he wasn't a personal friend of the warden.

I'll probably watch the last episode of season three today.

 

Oh, I beg you. Just watch the first four seasons and stop. It's a complete story that way. Once you watch five and six, you'll wish you'd stopped.

Keller's beyond compelling. It's just astonishing how you can sympathize with his emotions without necessarily sympathizing with him as a whole.

 

Watch the whole series. I loved it all the way to the end. Different strokes for different folks. I guess you didn't like seeing the "Jesus" dude (Reverend Jeremiah Cloutier) who got walled up. That plot didn't make any sense, but it was fun.

 

I liked the last two seasons okay. But it was over the top from the first, so the way they went waaay over the top the last two years didn't come as some kind of shock.

 

I'll be honest--I don't know if I could do that! When I get into something, I have to see it all the way through... even if I know the end isn't that good. I'm a total completist. But, I imagine once break is over and the regular TV season resumes, I'll probably have to slow down in my Oz watching. :/

I know!! On one hand, the man is pretty sociopathic--his obsession with having Beecher is pretty scary, given what he'll do to get Beecher--manipulate Sister Pete, kill Said, etc. On the other hand, you kind of feel bad for him that he thinks he's so horrible and worthless, and watching Beecher hold out on him for episode after episode even as he tries his best to make amends does make you kind of root for him. When Beecher finally gives it up, I admit, I was like, "Awwwww!"

Yeah, the whole show is so over the top in a lot of ways. I love it, but man, this show can be way out there.

I finished the third season! Really liked the last episode... it ended on a much more subtle cliffhanger than the last two seasons did. Adebisi with a gun, though... man, that seems like a recipe for disaster.

I gotta say, I think Adebisi was less scary when he was on tits. He's become really militant over the course of the season, and has really had a big hand in dividing the races. As did Khan, to a lesser extent, IMO, but somewhat. And then there's Schillinger who's just been a bigot all along. It definitely feels like things are on the brink of disaster.

I love that Beecher and Said are kind of keeping themselves apart and refusing to get embroiled in it. I feel like these two are the only truly decent human beings in Oz, the only two who genuinely feel remorse over what brought them there. They're definitely the ones I find myself sympathizing with on a regular basis, whereas I go back and forth on a lot of the others. But I consistently feel for and like Beecher and Said, and I really love their friendship.

On the other end of the spectrum... sorry, I know I bitch about this with every episode, but I seriously hate Miguel Alvarez more and more as the series goes on. His refusal to tell Glynn who raped his daughter for a season and a half and then his glee when he finally reveals the info (not that I'm sure that I believe him) just make him the lowest of the low for me. At least I enjoy hating Schillinger. Alvarez I just want off the screen!!

I hope the death of Khan means the end of that damn boxing program. That was just boring and predictable. I did like the glimpse of the O'Reilly brothers' home life--you can definitely see why they're messed up. Their dad just seems like a total SOB.

So glad to see Clayton Hughes finally fired! Not only was he incompetent, but in giving Adebisi a gun, he proved he was corrupt, too.

I continue to feel bad for McManus--I like him a lot, even though in a lot of ways I think he's a total screw-up. I hope Diane doesn't end up quitting--I really like her a lot. Love how she just took a swing at Howell--that rocked!

Are we ever going to find out who the father of Shirley Bellinger's baby is, or was that her exit from the show? I really like the character--I hope we see her again!

Well, Keller finally got back in Beecher's pod--and from the looks of it, into his bed! I liked how you could tell that Beecher was still reluctant, still definitely afraid to trust Keller, but after a season of Keller pursuing him relentlessly, I guess he got worn down. I think Beecher was definitely swayed by Keller defending him in the knife fight--the poor guy has been fending for himself for so long (with mixed results) that I imagine the idea of someone who will take care of him and protect him is incredibly appealing. But I'm dying to know... now that Keller has gotten to have Beecher, is he going to lose interest or put him through some emotional/physical torment again? I thought their New Year's kiss was very sweet, but if Keller is as bad as he says he is--and, uh, as some of his actions have proved he is--I wonder if he's going to hurt Beecher again.

Overall, great third season! I would have done away with Alvarez and the boxing, but otherwise, so into it! I can't wait to start the fourth season. I'll probably watch the deleted scenes from season three, too.

 

Do NOT listen to the people who say you shouldn't watch the last two seasons. If you do, you'll miss the resolution to the whole Keller/Beecher relationship! (and people - it would be nice if you didn't spoil it for Top41; that is something that is best viewed as a surprise!).

 

Yeah, I'm totally invested in their relationship--I definitely want to see how it plays out. It's so twisted and dark... and yet romantic at the same time. I generally like the messed up relationships best. I totally think Keller is a stalker and kind of a sociopath, and Beecher, for all his occasional toughness, is still something of a naive innocent, but there's something really compelling about the two of them together. Maybe I've read a few too many Victorian novels , but I'm really hoping Beecher's innate goodness and love can bring out a better part of Keller.

 

I concur on the sentiment of watching the whole show. Yeah, there are a few rough spots here and there, but overall the entire series is fantastic. The final season did some very interesting things I thought.

Top, the way you go on about Alvarez is EXACTLY how I felt about Kenny. I could not stand that little punk and I wanted to strangle him every single time he opened his mouth. Oddly, I didn't mind Alvarez as much, perhaps because I like Kirk Acevedo as an actor (I had previously seen him on Law & Order: Trial by Jury and Band of Brothers). Yeah, he can be annnoying, but not nearly as annoying as Kenny. But different strokes for different folks, I suppose.

By the way, I'm LOVING reading your comments for each episode. I've only seen the series once and it was a few years ago, but it's thrilling to relive the series if only through your comments. There are some things from the show that I've forgotten about, while others I can't wait to see your reaction to when they come to pass. Don't feel too bad about watching it so quickly. I think I watched about a season a day. I was more addicted than you!

Enjoy.