Another uniform question again?

[Garak007]

I am not quite sure if this has been discussed before but while watching Generations the other day on Film4 the thing I could not understand why is that there was a use of two different types of uniform in that movie?

I thought at first were they trying to reflect a new transition from one show to the other. Going from TNG to DS9 but one moment you see Picard going from the last TNG uniform to the DS9 one. Riker has the DS9 all way through the film but Troy has the TNG one. The same could be said about Worf. It makes no sence. Could the producers not settle what unform be used through the whole film?

 

[Andymator]

Heheheh, I just finished watching Generations earlier tonight.

Originally the movie was going to feature a whole new uniform design, but for whatever reason, be it budgetary or creative issues, that was scrapped at the last minute.

I get the impression at some point during this proccess it was decided to go forward with the DS9 uniforms for all of the Trek franchise, and they were intentionally showing us the gradual transition from the old to the new(ish), while at the same time saving tons of cash on costuming all those extras around the ship.

Picard changing back into his old one likely had more to do with the fact that he got his new one all beat up in the scuffle with Soran.

 

[kkozoriz1]

If you ever track down one of the Playmates action figures from the movie you can see what the new uniforms were going to look like.

 

[SonicRanger]

TNG uniforms had been seen in DS9, so the mix was nothing new.

And there was a mix of collared and uncollared TNG uniforms for several seasons.

And here is a TNG uniform with the FC uniforms in DS9:

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/5x10/rapture_319.jpg

Of course, it all comes down to money.

 

[Capt_Pickirk]

But I thought the DS9 uniforms were uniforms for Starbases??? It didn't make sense that they would all start wearing them

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Originally the movie was going to feature a whole new uniform design, but for whatever reason, be it budgetary or creative issues, that was scrapped at the last minute.

It wasn't a budgetary decision, as they'd already spent the money fashioning the new uniforms when Berman decided to scrap them.

New uniforms were needed for Generations because, while the television uniforms were okay at video resolution on television, the uniforms had five years of wear on them (going back to the collared 3rd season uniforms) and they wouldn't look good at the sharper 35mm resolution.

Berman felt the redesigned uniform (which was roughly a cross between the later TNG-style and the Star Trek II-style) was a change too far for the film. As a result, they decided to use the DS9 uniforms, with Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner getting custom-made costumes, while Jonathan Frakes wore Avery Brooks' costume and LeVar Burton wore Colm Meaney's.

I get the impression at some point during this proccess it was decided to go forward with the DS9 uniforms for all of the Trek franchise

I've always suspected that Voyager was to get the Generations uniforms. DS9 got new uniforms to visually distinguish its characters from TNG; it would have made sense from Berman's point-of-view to make the new show equally distinctive. But deciding against the new costumes would have forced a rethink, and that leads us back to doubling up on the DS9 uniforms.

 

[JarodRussell]

New uniforms were needed for Generations because, while the television uniforms were okay at video resolution on television, the uniforms had five years of wear on them (going back to the collared 3rd season uniforms) and they wouldn't look good at the sharper 35mm resolution.

I doubt that, since they do wear these uniforms in the movie and it's no problem at all to get new ones made.

 

[RedShirt]

I am not quite sure if this has been discussed before but while watching Generations the other day on Film4 the thing I could not understand why is that there was a use of two different types of uniform in that movie?

I thought at first were they trying to reflect a new transition from one show to the other. Going from TNG to DS9 but one moment you see Picard going from the last TNG uniform to the DS9 one. Riker has the DS9 all way through the film but Troy has the TNG one. The same could be said about Worf. It makes no sence. Could the producers not settle what unform be used through the whole film?

Yeah, because it's totally not like current day military personnel would switch between dress and utility uniforms depending on what certain duties require. This just has no precedent.
Oh, wait...

 

[Allyn Gibson]

New uniforms were needed for Generations because, while the television uniforms were okay at video resolution on television, the uniforms had five years of wear on them (going back to the collared 3rd season uniforms) and they wouldn't look good at the sharper 35mm resolution.

I doubt that, since they do wear these uniforms in the movie and it's no problem at all to get new ones made.

You can doubt that all you want, but it was the reason.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I always thought the original DS9/VOY uniforms were simply work coveralls or a casual duty uniform that could be worn at the discretion of a commanding officer.

Perhaps Picard allowed his crew to alternate between the uniforms because the Enterprise-D was in a state of transition at the time of Generations (a refurbished bridge might have been just one of many shipwide upgrades that were being worked on prior to the ship's untimely demise).

 

[arch101]

There should have always been more than one uniform for different situations. During the TNG series, the Starship uniforms looked silly and inappropriate half the time. In the film, the Starbase uniforms didn't look nearly as good as the Starship uniforms.
Related: in preproduction art, Voyager crew are shown in TNG style Starship uniforms.

 

[Andymator]

There should have always been more than one uniform for different situations. During the TNG series, the Starship uniforms looked silly and inappropriate half the time. In the film, the Starbase uniforms didn't look nearly as good as the Starship uniforms.
Related: in preproduction art, Voyager crew are shown in TNG style Starship uniforms.

I really liked the Deep Space Nine style uniforms in Generations, most notably on Picard. It appears as though a lot of extra care was taken when it came to fitting and styling his, while the ones featured on Star Trek Voyager and elsewhere were loose, baggy and puffy most of the time.

I will absolutely agree that there were times in The Next Generation, particularly on away missions, when it seemed a bit inappropriate to be in their regular uniforms.

 

[CoveTom]

The adoption of the DS9 uniforms was a mandate from Starfleet at the same time the order came through to replace all the lighting on the ship with 40 watt bulbs...

 

[Timo]

...why is that there was a use of two different types of uniform in that movie?

I think the better question is, why not?

That is, why weren't multiple subtly different uniform types seen in simultaneous use before? That's how real militaries and paramilitaries do it, after all. Clothing is worn for protection and for decoration, and different situations call for different levels of each. Star Trek couldn't do that with a TV show budget, though: they needed the combined budgets of two shows for a steady supply of alternate wear.

Like C.E.Evans says, the "DS9 style" might be the less glamorous uniform, the one more suited for crawling in Jeffries tubes and the like, while the "TNG style" could be the one used in more formal occasions. DS9 is an informal place, and Voyager is a small ship; in contrast, the Enterprise-D was the Flagship of the Federation, so Picard might not have believed in a Casual Friday there.

In ST:GEN, it's fun to notice that our heroes generally change from DS9 to TNG style when they go casual or dirty. Data and LaForge don the style when they start combing through the wrecked observatory; Riker changes for dealing with the wreckage of the saucer. Picard changes somewhat in advance of his planetary foray, though - but after ceasing to interact with the guests aboard his ship.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JarodRussell]

New uniforms were needed for Generations because, while the television uniforms were okay at video resolution on television, the uniforms had five years of wear on them (going back to the collared 3rd season uniforms) and they wouldn't look good at the sharper 35mm resolution.

I doubt that, since they do wear these uniforms in the movie and it's no problem at all to get new ones made.

You can doubt that all you want, but it was the reason.

Is there a source for that?

 

[USS Intrepid]

Yeah, because it's totally not like current day military personnel would switch between dress and utility uniforms depending on what certain duties require. This just has no precedent.
Oh, wait...

^^^ This.

I've never really understood the confusion about this. To me, it makes more sense to have a range of uniforms, not less.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I doubt that, since they do wear these uniforms in the movie and it's no problem at all to get new ones made.

You can doubt that all you want, but it was the reason.

Is there a source for that?

Sure, it's pretty well documented. Look in Cinefantastique and Sci-Fi Universe from the timeframe.

 

[USS Excelsior]

Since they had the same TNG uniforms in Generations they should have just kept things simple and have everyone in the same uniform. Long after Generations we still see Officers in the TNG uniforms in DS9 on starships.

At least with FC uniforms it became consistent, but for engineers there could also be a worker jacket with pockets and stuff that can be used to make it more practical.

 

[SonicRanger]

You can doubt that all you want, but it was the reason.

Is there a source for that?

Sure, it's pretty well documented. Look in Cinefantastique and Sci-Fi Universe from the timeframe.

No problem if you have a spare $15,000 per new uniform you want. And supposedly the dye was a pain to match from batch to batch, especially the blue, which varied wildly throughout TNG.

 

[danellis]

I've never really understood the confusion about this. To me, it makes more sense to have a range of uniforms, not less.

I don't think people who are unfamiliar with the military expect there to be one uniform.

dJE