Another uniform question again?

[Allyn Gibson]

That's assumption on the fatigue uniforms.

No it's not. Richard Arnold, then-archivist at the ST Office, said at conventions that there were always heavy negotiations with the toy licensees. Costume changes meant they could make all-new sculpts of main characters that had already been released, refreshing their lines and encouraging them to renew their licenses. If no new uniforms were forthcoming, the company would often switch to a new scale instead. Anything to get people to buy the characters all over again.

Except that, in the case of Star Trek V, it's bunk.

Galoob hadn't made figures of the TOS characters before. They wouldn't have had a line of figures already on the market. They wouldn't have been "refreshing the line" like Playmates was with the Generations figures.

What Arnold said was true -- for 1994. In 1989, it wasn't even applicable.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I always thought the TWOK reds looked awful without the turtleneck underneath.

I realize it would've cost them money, but they could have at least added a short collar to them for their TNG appearances.

When the collar was added to the TNG uniforms was when they started looking their best. Not to mention the taller collar (and black wrists) on the Yesterday's Enterprise versions.

 

[Aldo]

It's well-documented, in Lisabeth Shatner's making of book, that Shatner wanted to ditch the Robert Fletcher uniforms and have new uniforms all around because he wanted to put his own grittier stamp on Trek, such as with the assault phasers.

I read that book and I guess I forgot about that. It's interesting, what's more interesting is that Shatner actually has Kirk wearing a different variation on the uniform up till the assault on Paradise city. Later on in the film when they go down to Sha Ka Ree Kirk is back in the standard uniform.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I always thought the TWOK reds looked awful without the turtleneck underneath.

I realize it would've cost them money, but they could have at least added a short collar to them for their TNG appearances.

There's been some speculation that the modifications to the TWOK uniforms in TNG were a result of Roddenberry never particularly liking them in the first place. But the branch-colored undershirts were apparently still in use when Picard first graduated from the Academy, but they were no longer turtleneck. It wasn't until sometime later that they disappeared entirely from view, along with the belt and buckle.

 

[Bishop76]

I always thought the TWOK reds looked awful without the turtleneck underneath.

That is correct - somehow the best looking uniform managed to look the worst with that one little modification.

Well, okay, TNG seasons 1 and 2 are the worst, but the collarless TWOK uniforms are a close second.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I suppose if we never saw it w/a turtleneck underneath, we'd have a different opinion, or at least not such a strong one.

They ended up looking a little like PJ's w/o the undershirt, along with the TNG S1/S2 ones.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

That's assumption on the fatigue uniforms.

No it's not. Richard Arnold, then-archivist at the ST Office, said at conventions that there were always heavy negotiations with the toy licensees. Costume changes meant they could make all-new sculpts of main characters that had already been released, refreshing their lines and encouraging them to renew their licenses. If no new uniforms were forthcoming, the company would often switch to a new scale instead. Anything to get people to buy the characters all over again.

Except that, in the case of Star Trek V, it's bunk.

Galoob hadn't made figures of the TOS characters before. They wouldn't have had a line of figures already on the market. They wouldn't have been "refreshing the line" like Playmates was with the Generations figures.

What Arnold said was true -- for 1994. In 1989, it wasn't even applicable.

Precisely.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Galoob hadn't made figures of the TOS characters before. They wouldn't have had a line of figures already on the market.

ERTL had already made Kirk, Spock and Scotty (and Kruge w/dog) figures in the maroon ST II uniforms (for their ST III range) in the same size as Galoob's then-current TNG figures. Even though the ERTLs weren't very well received (they were still hanging on pegs in some stores, at clearance prices), they had more articulation than Galoob's standard at the time. Galoob was supposedly hesitant to do new figures in those uniforms at that scale - and ended up doing taller, non action, plastic statues with cardboard dioramas, with only McCoy in the maroon.

 

[USS Intrepid]

TNG: Class B service uniform
DS9: Class C working uniform

This. I don't see why this isn't reasonable.

The DS9 Uni being used at the same time as the TNG uni makes more sense than a backwater crapshack outpost being the first post to be given the brand spanking new uniforms.

Likewise. I've never quite understood why people object to this idea.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Galoob hadn't made figures of the TOS characters before. They wouldn't have had a line of figures already on the market.

ERTL had already made Kirk, Spock and Scotty (and Kruge w/dog) figures in the maroon ST II uniforms (for their ST III range) in the same size as Galoob's then-current TNG figures. Even though the ERTLs weren't very well received (they were still hanging on pegs in some stores, at clearance prices), they had more articulation than Galoob's standard at the time. Galoob was supposedly hesitant to do new figures in those uniforms at that scale - and ended up doing taller, non action, plastic statues with cardboard dioramas, with only McCoy in the maroon.

Is there a citable source for Galoob's supposed hesitation?

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Ian, I like you and respect you, but dude. Not everything Richard Arnold tells you is true -- or even makes any sense at all.

For your version of events to make any sense whatsoever, you have to accept that Galoob would decide what action figures to produce based on what a different company made five years earlier, for a line of figures that wouldn't even be on the shelves in Toys R Us or KayBee any more.

Honestly, I even doubt the "clearance peg" thing. Retail stores like that don't keep merchandise around for five years. Maybe two at most, but not five. Stores don't carry inventory for that long. Shelf space is limited, they'd have liquidated the product or sold it off to a discount chain long before then.

Ian, I just can't take your story seriously. It makes no sense.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Forget it then. You don't have to believe anything I say. And I know you don't believe anything Richard ever said.

Richard's annual convention comments seemed very reasonable to me in the late 80s and in the early 90s. And since we saw the same pattern play out no matter who had the toy license, it still sounds reasonable today. To me.

to make any sense whatsoever, you have to accept that Galoob would decide what action figures to produce based on what a different company made five years earlier

Yep. ERTL's line hadn't sold well, and neither had Galoob's TNG Season One line in similar scale. What would Galoob's market research say? "We just bought the TOS movie action figure license and the last company to make figures in the maroon uniforms couldn't sell them, even though they had greater articulation than our current TNG line. Fans who did buy the ERTL figures won't want to buy them all over again from us. Are we going to risk the same venture, or do we hope that a new scale or new uniforms might prove to be more appealing?"

Honestly, I even doubt the "clearance peg" thing. Retail stores like that don't keep merchandise around for five years.

Wanna bet? Although the toys often disappeared from the original stores which stocked them, they'd then turn up elsewhere on clearance pegs.

I bought full price ERTL action figures by US mail order and at local Aussie retail - and then, when TNG was on and my club started doing Christmas children's charity drives, we were still finding new sources of ERTL Trek action figures and diecast ships at deep- discount prices while TNG and ST V were current. Two years running!

Is there a citable source for Galoob's supposed hesitation?

I dunno. We often taped and transcribed Richard's annual convention gossip, but if you don't believe my recollections you wouldn't believe transcripts of the same ramblings either. I do recall a print interview with Galoob discussing how they determined which figures to take to retail and which to leave at prototype stage, but I don't think it covered the ST V figures. They'd cut the TNG line short before proceeding with their prototype sculpts of Wesley Crusher and the Romulan, and several advertised cardboard TNG playsets, and were keen to try out a new scale.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Is there a citable source for Galoob's supposed hesitation?

I dunno. We often taped and transcribed Richard's annual convention gossip, but if you don't believe my recollections you wouldn't believe transcripts of the same ramblings either. I do recall a print interview with Galoob discussing how they determined which figures to take to retail and which to leave at prototype stage, but I don't think it covered the ST V figures. They'd cut the TNG line short before proceeding with their prototype sculpts of Wesley Crusher and the Romulan, and several advertised cardboard TNG playsets, and were keen to try out a new scale.

It's not that I don't believe your recollection of what Richard Arnold said at his convention appearances. What I am skeptical about is the presumption made based on Arnold's statements and using that to come the conclusion about the fatigue uniforms, especially when there is a primary, citable source for why those uniforms appear in the movie.

 

[Therin of Andor]

It's not a "conclusion" at all, it's a contributing factor.

Star Trek uniform changes are made when someone wants to put their stamp on Star Trek. Encouraging licencees to take out or maintain tie-in licences is always a consideration.

 

[SonicRanger]

Has anything ever come to light on this less-than-masculine TFF uniform design?

 

[LeadHead]

My opinion on this whole thing: I really liked having both the TNG and DS9 uniforms in Generations, in fact I wish they woulda made it a regular thing on DS9 after Generations, some variety is good and Sisko, Dax, Bashir and O'Brien already had been in those uniforms in Emissary, so cost shouldn't have been a factor.

As for the unused Generations uniforms, I wish they would have come up with those much earlier and made them be the TNG dress uniforms, they look much more formal than the ones they used.