So...you're saying he's on YouTube?
Spoilers Andor - Season 2
- Thread starter Fuddles
- Start date
Welcome to rewarding poor behavior on an unearned platform.So...you're saying he's on YouTube?
Well, you gave me zero specifics except some vague talk about "questions" and a random list of characters. What "questions" were ignored, exactly? What about those characters was diminished (but Ackbar? Seriously? Ackbar was never going to be an important character and he was a glorified backgrounder in TFA. Gimme a break.)
He respected the story telling and character choices that were laid down in TFA and didn't overwrite them.
For example, many people blame Johnson for turning Luke into a crabby hermit. That's literally what happens in TFA, it is explained very clearly in dialogue that Luke "walked away." Is Luke heroically fighting the First Order in TFA? No, he is not. The movie explicitly says that.
So don't get shocked when the sequel movie shows him not fighting the First Order and actually has to find a reason to justify the choice it was handed. And yet it's somehow Johnson's fault for "ruining" Luke by actually following what TFA laid the groundwork for.
So if you have a specific gripe or issue, let's hear it. Just writing a list and not explaining anything is the opposite of being specific.
So, make a point. Or keep obfuscating and saying nothing.
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I don't think I've watched one of his videos in years (if ever), but I've seen just enough clips of him in reaction videos and, dear god, what a totally unhinged loser he comes across as.
One clip literally has him insisting that you "must" read all of the books and supplemental materials to fully "get" a movie and, if you don't, you're not a true fan and it's your fault for not liking, say, "Rise of Skywalker." Holy crap.....
When I was a young child very, very long ago and SW was practically brand new, I was one of 6 kids dressed as Darth Vader for Halloween in my kindergarten class.
Digging the bad guys isn't new.
I'm not a defender of TFA, but a half-truth can be as misleading as a lie, and here's the exchange you're only half-quoting:
HAN
He was training a new generation of
Jedi. One boy, an apprentice turned
against him, destroyed it all. Luke
felt responsible... He walked away
from everything.
FINN
Do you know what happened to him?
HAN
There're a lot of rumors. Stories.
The people who knew him the best
think he went looking for the first
Jedi temple.
That last detail is the movie loudly hinting that Luke "walked away" with some sort of idea or plan. If it was merely to become a "crabby hermit," doing so at the First Jedi Temple would surely be the most petulant place in the universe to do so - possible, I guess, but hardly the only explanation. Again, I personally don't like TFA, but I think it rather more plausible that Luke went off in search of a crazy, long-shot hope for a of Jedi miracle. Maybe he went off looking for some interdimensional portal from which he could, say, send a warning back through time, and thus change tragic history by preventing his apprentice's fall. Call that portal some... world between worlds, or something.
(And, while this is an extratextual detail, so one is free to take it or leave it, Abrams reportedly intended to end the movie with Luke using the Force; Johnson asked him to change it to fit his script.)
That's literally not true. Being (apparently) alone doesn't necessarily make one a hermit, because hermits choose to be alone. For all we know from TFA, Luke went off in search of help of some kind and then became stranded, without ever choosing to be alone, so we can't definitively conclude that he's a hermit. And he doesn't act "crabby"; he acts vaguely and mysteriously. The crabbiness starts in TLJ, when he tosses his old saber.
Ooh, if we're all handing out pissy advice, here's one for you: stop saying not-true things.
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Sorry, but in no universe does "he walked away from everything" translate to, "He was devising a super secret battle plan to come back in swinging!"I'm not a defender of TFA, but a half-truth can be as misleading as a lie, and here's the exchange you're only half-quoting:
HANHe was training a new generation ofJedi. One boy, an apprentice turnedagainst him, destroyed it all. Lukefelt responsible... He walked awayfrom everything.
FINNDo you know what happened to him?HANThere're a lot of rumors. Stories.The people who knew him the bestthink he went looking for the firstJedi temple.
That last detail is the movie loudly hinting that Luke "walked away" with some sort of idea or plan. If it was merely to become a "crabby hermit," doing so at the First Jedi Temple would surely be the most petulant place in the universe to do so - possible, I guess, but hardly the only explanation. Again, I personally don't like TFA, but I think it rather more plausible that Luke went off in search of a crazy, long-shot hope for a of Jedi miracle. Maybe he went off looking for some interdimensional portal from which he could, say, send a warning back through time, and thus change tragic history by preventing his apprentice's fall. Call that portal some... world between worlds, or something.
(And, while this is an extratextual detail, so one is free to take it or leave it, Abrams reportedly intended to end the movie with Luke using the Force; Johnson asked him to change it to fit his script.)
That's literally not true. Being (apparently) alone doesn't necessarily make one a hermit, because hermits choose to be alone. For all we know from TFA, Luke went off in search of help of some kind and then became stranded, without ever choosing to be alone, so we can't definitively conclude that he's a hermit. And he doesn't act "crabby"; he acts vaguely and mysteriously. The crabbiness starts in TLJ, when he tosses his old saber.
Ooh, if we're all handing out pissy advice, here's one for you: stop saying not-true things.
Walking away is just that. Walking away. From "everything." As you quoted.
That has very clear and unambiguous meaning. When you walk away from your job, your relationship, a situation....that's the end.
Come on now.
But, you're right, the crabbiness does technically start in TLJ. He could have been a very cheerful, friendly reclusive hermit quitter, but that wouldn't make as much sense, would it?
Ask Kenobi and/or Yoda.
Star Wars’ Admiral Ackbar actor reveals he was “in tears” after his “big joke” exit
Tim Rose says he’s disappointed with the character’s death in The Last Jedi
www.radiotimes.com
Wrong. Luke was looking for the first Jedi temple. At the end of TFA Luke was still connected to the force. But the scene had to be removed after Mark Hamill pointed out that TLJ has him not connected to the force. Luke is wearing white at the end of TFA showing his pureness and enlightenment, Johnson has him change into grey, drink alien titty milk and has him come into his nephew's room in the middle of the night dangling his saber over his nephew's head. Which part of TFA was setting any of that up?
The man who wouldn't kill his own father, the worst man in the frickin galaxy would instead momentarily consider killing his nephew who hadn't done anything yet? How is that respecting anything from the previous 40 years?
You've given one example of how TLJ respected what came before. You haven't mentioned anything about the story telling. Do you think they spent the whole film in TFA trying to find him so he could take the lightsaber from Rey and throw it over his shoulder at the very beginning of the next film? Is that story telling?
Because TFA introduces it as if it's a highly important object that's needed for Rey, and one highly desired by Kylo Ren and because it belonged to Luke and Anakin. Why introduce the object at all if it has zero significance as TLJ tries to make it?
Which is it, is it that he didn't kill Vader or that he considered killing Ben?
Because he also didn't kill Ben and very much considered killing Vader, and for much more than a moment, in exactly the same circumstances. If Luke's blade had gone six inches to the left or right so he took off Vader's head with his last blow or knocked away his saber without exposing his robot arm, we'd be talking about Darth Luke right now.
But, no, Luke would've reacted with zen-like equanimity to seeing a vision of his best friend being run through and his sister being blasted into space by a masked ghoul who worships one of the greatest monsters of history. You know, just like he did when he saw Han being tortured on Cloud City, or when Vader threatened to take Leia as his apprentice, both situations where he famously considered the situation carefully and didn't immediately fly off the handle and lash out.
Do you think Luke abandoned his friends and the whole rebellion so he could find a cackling gremlin who got in fights with a droid over pretzels? It's a movie, not a vignette, complications are to be expected.
Two different circumstances, given that Luke was personally responsible for his nephew's training, and, by extension, his fall.
Two, as noted above, he did almost kill Vader when Leia was threatened.
Three, Luke states it was a moment of pure instinct. We see all throughout the saga films that the Jedi pull their lightsaber in confronting the Dark Side. Luke responded as his masters.
Ah, but let's not forget -- if you ask WBW enthusiasts, they'll tell you that you can't actually change history! Because anything you do to the past was always like that all along something something... Filoni should really just stay the hell away from time travel.Gaith said:
I agree that "He walked away" is suggestive, but it's not definitive. For example, Luke could have initially taken some immediate time off to balance himself and stop his psychic bleeding, as it were, and, during that time, become obsessed with a "super secret battle plan to come back in swinging." If that plan failed, and he became stranded in the attempt, even someone as close as Han might conclude that "he walked away from everything."
Also, Han's talking about his own son becoming a school shooter here. He may not have the clearest perspective on exactly what went down.
Again: if his intention was to become a Force-shunning hermit, why would he decide to do so at the long-lost first Jedi temple, when he could do that in any isolated corner of the galaxy? Out of sheer petulance? Come on now.
That said, thank you for acknowledging that the crabbiness started with TLJ.
What we have is a badly written TFA sending contradictory messages: yes, there's the probable suggestion that Luke went into self-imposed exile due to his failure, and didn't intend to ever return, but the idea that he went off in search of the first Jedi temple, and somehow left behind a partial map of his whereabouts, also suggests that he may have had a productive purpose in doing so.
Given that, however, I think that my proposed solution - he initially farted off, intending to regroup and return, but, during that time, came up with a crazy plan to fix things, but became stranded in the attempt (and the map to his location somehow resulted from that) - is the most sensible.
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Actor disappointed his role wasn't bigger! I'm shocked, shocked. This has never once happened in history of narrative entertainment!Star Wars’ Admiral Ackbar actor reveals he was “in tears” after his “big joke” exit
Tim Rose says he’s disappointed with the character’s death in The Last Jediwww.radiotimes.com
Other people have already succinctly pointed out that, yes, Luke briefly considering killing an evil person, despite familial connection, is, in fact, completely in line with his character and history.
JJ Abrams, by his own admission, had literally no clue. What he wanted to do with Luke. He's actually said so. He kicked Luke down the field, he was never planning on returning to the series and just washed his hands of it. Ah, Luke will show up at the end, cliffhanger! The storytelling in TFA is lousy.
Having Luke throw away the lightsaber is, in fact, a wonderful bit of writing that certain mewling fanboys just don't understand. TLJ's job was to find some way to justify what happened in TFA. It ain't perfect, but they did the best they could under the circumstances.
The saber is just an object. It has significance to some - to Kylo because it's a real saber, not a janky one like he has, and because of its long history (he probably wanted it because of its history with Anakin, not Luke.). It also has outsized significance to mewling fanboys who just can't possibly fathom that someone might not treat it with fawning reverence when they have a legitimate character/story reason not to. As Luke does.
To Luke, it's a symbol of the failures of the Jedi and his own personal failures. Why the hell should he want it?
Great writing, if you can overcome you bias and take the movie at face value.
One that she still has with her at the end of TLJ...
When your story meeting starts with the director going "Who is Luke Skywalker?" you gotta be wondering if they hired the right person for the jobCrewman6 said:
Every form of time travel has a different interpretation and every single one of them is valid within the realm of science fiction and fantasy.
Ergo, if Filoni says that's how time travel works in relation to Worlds Between Worlds, then that's how those rules work. As long as they stay intentally consistent, I'm good with what he says.
If your story isn't going to ask "Who is [character?" and provide an answer (at least one answer!), then you're not telling a story, it's just a bunch of stuff that happens. By your reckoning, if they'd gotten "the right person for the job" rather than George Lucas to make Star Wars, the answer to "Who is Luke Skywalker?" would've been, "An orphan raised by his aunt and uncle who tinkers with junk speeders and hangs out with dirtbag friends who call him 'Wormie,'" and that would've been the end of it. He never would've been called to adventure, never would've found out that he was capable of extradorinaiy things, would've never gone further than Anchorhead and would've been buried in a poorly-marked sand-dune.
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1) The WBW was introduced after TLJ premiered, so, whatever, man.
2) Please note that I never said I wanted Luke to succeed at rewriting the past. Instead, I think it could have been a ideal story, given the framework of TFA, for him have gone off in search of a Hail Mary fix to everything (be it time travel, a squad of hibernating Jedi, an anti-Sith weapon, whatever), but for that effort to have failed, and/or proven to be a completely false hope, leaving him stranded in the process. In his solitude, he could still have become a tired, grumpy old man, and thus been reluctant to train Rey (which I do think the setup of TFA pretty much demanded) without making him an intentional deserter from his family and galaxy. I think this would have been the best outcome from a pretty bad setup... but Johnson chose the worst possible (backstory) path instead.
Anyone who said "Now that we've rebooted the classic Star Trek crew, let's have their second-ever adventure be a Wrath of Khan remake, starring a white dude so we can pretend that's not what it is right up until the moment it's released!" was definitely not the right person for the job.
