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An Observation About diversity on Discovery, 32nd Century

Because Starfleet is supposed to be a multi-species organization, not a human-led empire. That we're told that Starfleet is an equal-opportunity service but shown only humans could be seen as analogous to being told that any person could go to a given college (or serve in a military rank, be doctors, ect.) and then just see a bunch of white dudes.

The fact of the matter is, within the Trekverse aliens are the allegorical reference to non-whites and/or people from non-western cultures. That's what they're there for. It might matter a lot that Michael Burnham is a black captain to viewers, but it doesn't matter one whit to those within the show's universe, because it's an explicitly race blind setting. If you want to actually have stories about tolerance and inclusion, you have to show characters bridging gaps that are hard for them, not doing what comes as second nature.

Edit: I should say that I think there are plenty of settings where having all/almost all humans is completely forgivable. But Star Trek is not one of them. It's been built into the DNA of the show by this point that we'll all join hands into one big mélange of culture which spreads across the galaxy. Not actually showing this in practice betrays this ideal.

I think that's fair. If you are going to tell a story about a organization with 150 member worlds (or in S3's case, an organization with 30 member worlds that Earth is no longer a part of), you should try to make the populations consistent with that backdrop, though it will always be a bit human centric because it's a TV show for a human audience.

Also totally agree with using non-humans as a way to tell stories about discrimination, DS9 did a great job on this with Odo and Voyager did an OK job with the Doctor. Though I will say my favorite was a more direct story about racism, it was a DS9 episode where Sisko has a vision about being a magazine writer in the 50s. Really powerful stuff.
 
I think Spock was done the best and Saru is great.

I like Saru and loved the Kelpian backstory last season, but that's really the only thing Discovery has done so far that I can think of. This season in particular was noticeably devoid of this kind of conflict, all the struggles have been personal / internal ones.
 
Also totally agree with using non-humans as a way to tell stories about discrimination, DS9 did a great job on this with Odo and Voyager did an OK job with the Doctor.

There are lots of other examples of this as well. Spock dealt with casual racism from his frenemy McCoy, and always had to deal with the tension of being effectively biracial and rejected as "not ___ enough" by both sides. Worf's story was in large part one of an immigrant who has partially assimilated to the way of life of his new home people, but still longs for a connection with his motherland which always just barely eludes him. Data faced what is effectively dehumanization in many plots of the week - people who actively denied his personhood. The same holds true for The Doctor. Turning to DS9, I'd argue that Nog's entire character arc (and to a lesser extent Rom's) was about trying to show that they were not defined by their stereotype as Ferengi.

Though I will say my favorite was a more direct story about racism, it was a DS9 episode where Sisko has a vision about being a magazine writer in the 50s. Really powerful stuff.

Far Beyond the Stars is one of my top 10 favorite Trek episodes. But it's notable because other than one other time Sisko made an off-handed comment (regarding the Vegas holodeck simulation) it's the only time that Star Trek has directly addressed human racism.

I mean, I completely agree that allegory does not equal representation. However, a lot of contemporary issues can really only be dealt with through allegorical means, or through a non-Federation lens. Like, if we wanted modern Trek to address #metoo, you wouldn't want to have Admiral Vance sexually harassing people for obvious reasons (it not only destroys a character meant to be viewed positively, it also destroys the vision of an optimistic future where we can do better). Of course, the status of being a woman is not reducible to awful things like harassment, but still, if Trek wants to engage with "issues" it generally can't portray them in exactly the contemporary lens.
 
I like Saru and loved the Kelpian backstory last season, but that's really the only thing Discovery has done so far that I can think of. This season in particular was noticeably devoid of this kind of conflict, all the struggles have been personal / internal ones.
Well, humanity has evolved, right? That's always the argument I hear. So take it for what that's worth.
 
Well, humanity has evolved, right? That's always the argument I hear. So take it for what that's worth.

Correct, so that's why if you want to do a story about inclusion, tolerance, racism, etc, you have to make it about aliens or non-humans. eschaton gave some excellent examples above about how prior series have done it. A lot of those story lines had real substance and really made you think. Discovery doesn't seem interested in tackling these issues beyond having a diverse cast (not saying having a diverse cast is a bad thing). But the lack of real stories about tolerance and inclusion is a pivot away from one of the best things about classic Trek.

There are lots of other examples of this as well. Spock dealt with casual racism from his frenemy McCoy, and always had to deal with the tension of being effectively biracial and rejected as "not ___ enough" by both sides. Worf's story was in large part one of an immigrant who has partially assimilated to the way of life of his new home people, but still longs for a connection with his motherland which always just barely eludes him. Data faced what is effectively dehumanization in many plots of the week - people who actively denied his personhood. The same holds true for The Doctor. Turning to DS9, I'd argue that Nog's entire character arc (and to a lesser extent Rom's) was about trying to show that they were not defined by their stereotype as Ferengi.

Great examples, one that I would add would be the Maqui and the tension between the Cardassians and the Federation. I really liked one of Eddington's lines to Sisko where he talks about how everyone idealizes the Federation to the point where they can't imagine why anyone wouldn't want to be a part of it (not really discrimination per se, but along those lines as Eddington is challenging Sisko's pre-conceived notions).

Also the hatred between the Cardassians and the Bajorans. Dukat had an awesome scene where he was ranting to Sisko about how much he hates everything about the Bajorans. It was so interesting because at the start of the episode Dukat hides his evil but as the show progresses you see more and more of it until it all just explodes at the end.

Trek's history is full of powerful and moving stories about real conflict where all sorts of issues are tackled and explored. Discovery's storytelling is very shallow in comparison.
 
Correct, so that's why if you want to do a story about inclusion, tolerance, racism, etc, you have to make it about aliens or non-humans. eschaton gave some excellent examples above about how prior series have done it. A lot of those story lines had real substance and really made you think. Discovery doesn't seem interested in tackling these issues beyond having a diverse cast (not saying having a diverse cast is a bad thing). But the lack of real stories about tolerance and inclusion is a pivot away from one of the best things about classic Trek.
I think that Discovery has taken a different approach not pivoting away.
 
Does the show really need to tackle discrimination and bigotry at this point? Granted both are huge problems for the Trek fandom and fandom in general, but Star Trek has largely moved past that because TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT already did it. At this point it's just repeating itself and telling bonk bonk on the head stories about morality in order to teach Trekkies that they shouldn't be racist. Instead they just increased the number of people of color, women, and LGBTQ people and treat them like fully realized people, which is what those groups have always asked for. I'm a trans woman and I don't want to see my trauma and whatever bullshit i have to deal with played for drama on Star Trek, I just want to see a trans woman being part of the crew and having interesting stories about shit in space. I don't want misery porn, just seeing someone like myself on Star Trek treated like everyone else. If you need Star Trek to explain empathy for you then you have a problem that Star Trek really can't solve.
 
Does the show really need to tackle discrimination and bigotry at this point? Granted both are huge problems for the Trek fandom and fandom in general, but Star Trek has largely moved past that because TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT already did it. At this point it's just repeating itself and telling bonk bonk on the head stories about morality in order to teach Trekkies that they shouldn't be racist. Instead they just increased the number of people of color, women, and LGBTQ people and treat them like fully realized people, which is what those groups have always asked for. I'm a trans woman and I don't want to see my trauma and whatever bullshit i have to deal with played for drama on Star Trek, I just want to see a trans woman being part of the crew and having interesting stories about shit in space. I don't want misery porn, just seeing someone like myself on Star Trek treated like everyone else. If you need Star Trek to explain empathy for you then you have a problem that Star Trek really can't solve.

Everyone has a different opinion, but IMHO the whole didactic moral framework of Star Trek is built into its DNA, and what distinguishes it from most other TV science fiction. That isn't to say it's unique to Star Trek (it arguably came from anthologies like the Twilight Zone). But when you don't have it, it's easy to slip into generic action adventure as default. If I wanted that I'd just watch The Mandalorian.

I can think of two examples where this was done relatively recently - both by shows which involved Trek alums. One was Michael Taylor's show Defiance. One subplot introduced showed humans had an underground club where they dressed as an alien race (Catharians). The humans seemed to take this as being akin to drag (pretending to be something else at night to have a good time) while the Catharians saw this as blackface, which created interesting conflict. Another example was in the more recent Carnival Row, which Rene Echevarria was involved with. Orlando Bloom's character in the show is of half-fairy blood, which he's kept a secret his whole life. At one point he has a discussion with a closeted gay man which makes it explicit that he understands the lie that he has to live each day - pretending to be something he is not - is very much akin. Indeed, the entire character arc of the season for his character is more or less coming out of the closet.

I'd also say that that while it is nice to have a character of a different background and be able to say "oh look, they are just like me!" it's even better to be able to say "wait, their lived experience is not exactly like mine!" A central part of empathy is not only to recognize others as people, but also to understand where they are coming from. I mean, to provide a personal example, I was shook when I realized how many women have experienced assault - and how almost all of them have fears of walking in public alone or have other "protection mechanisms" for themselves. The idea that just walking somewhere after dark was generally perceived as unsafe never even crossed my mind.

But yes, none of us are defined by our traumas, and that should not be all of what we see onscreen. But Trek can, and has been many different things depending upon the series and the episode. It just seems silly to me to leave this important part of its legacy behind.
 
Does the show really need to tackle discrimination and bigotry at this point?

I personally think they should. I think it's great they have a diverse cast but it's not really something I really care about. They could have an all trans cast or no trans cast, doesn't really do anything for me either way. But I do like stories that make me think, in the past its been the discrimination and bigotry stuff that Trek has done very well, and stuff like this does help people relate to others when they may not experience it personally.
 
I personally think they should. I think it's great they have a diverse cast but it's not really something I really care about. They could have an all trans cast or no trans cast, doesn't really do anything for me either way. But I do like stories that make me think, in the past its been the discrimination and bigotry stuff that Trek has done very well, and stuff like this does help people relate to others when they may not experience it personally.
Given that I have to experience it daily I'd rather not see it in my entertainment, especially in Trek which is supposed to be a better future where we all get along. Seeing the same discrimination there makes it seem like it's natural and not a social problem that could be solved.
 
Given that I have to experience it daily I'd rather not see it in my entertainment, especially in Trek which is supposed to be a better future where we all get along. Seeing the same discrimination there makes it seem like it's natural and not a social problem that could be solved.

That's fair, I guess it comes back to who the target audience is. I guess it's you and not me, which is fine. I've said before the show can't be everything to everyone.
 
That's fair, I guess it comes back to who the target audience is. I guess it's you and not me, which is fine. I've said before the show can't be everything to everyone.

To be fair though, there was plenty of what we were looking for in Picard.
 
Yeah, I mean it's an interesting perspective. I understand the concept of not wanting to see things you suffer through in real life in your entertainment. But I'm struggling with taking that to its logical conclusion. Because, for example, I could see someone with PTSD saying the same thing about Detmer's arc this season. You could say the same thing about SuKal and the burn, that its "misery porn" for someone who suffers with anxiety or whatever mental disorder, and those people might not necessary want to see their trauma on screen either. So where does that leave us? A drama without conflict? Or maybe it means having characters who struggle with things that are completely unrelated to the things people in real life struggle with? Or does it mean making the show more of a light hearted space adventure (e.g. Galaxy Quest) that doesn't attempt to tackle any serious issues?
 
Has anyone else noticed that there aren't very many black people in the 32nd century? The only black people I have seen are Burnham, Booker, Doc, and O. I haven't see any black people in the back ground at Starfleet HQ in the 32nd century.

Has anyone else seen black people in the background of Starfleet HQ or any other episode after the jump to the future?

I wonder what happened to them between the battle with Control and the 32nd century.
They ascended to a higher existence
 
Yeah, I mean it's an interesting perspective. I understand the concept of not wanting to see things you suffer through in real life in your entertainment. But I'm struggling with taking that to its logical conclusion. Because, for example, I could see someone with PTSD saying the same thing about Detmer's arc this season. You could say the same thing about SuKal and the burn, that its "misery porn" for someone who suffers with anxiety or whatever mental disorder, and those people might not necessary want to see their trauma on screen either. So where does that leave us? A drama without conflict? Or maybe it means having characters who struggle with things that are completely unrelated to the things people in real life struggle with? Or does it mean making the show more of a light hearted space adventure (e.g. Galaxy Quest) that doesn't attempt to tackle any serious issues?
People with trauma and PTSD aren’t a minority group that have to deal with an extremely high rate of violent attacks and murder. It should also be noted that showing in this case trans people dealing with violence and discrimination is generally the only story that gets told about them, seeing a trans person living a fulfilling life is a rarity. It’s sends the message that only life a trans person gets is one where they face violence and discrimination. Why must the conflict a LGBTQ person deals with on a show have to be their status as a LGBTQ person? So far Discovery has done an excellent job of avoid it. The conflicts that Stamets and Culber face are based on what they do and their relationship with each other. Adira and Grey face conflict by the fact that Grey is some sort of memory ghost thing. None of it has to do with them being a gay couple or two trans teenagers, nor should it be. Trek exploring those stories is a step backwards and terrible representation. Having them being themselves and nothing about their identity questioned at all is better representation than a million stories about someone facing discrimination. While that may have helped you learn empathy, it actively harms LGBTQ people.
 
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