Maybe they could be in the universe where Thanos took his fleet from 2014 to Endgames 2022. Meaning he removed himself from that universe he left
Spoilers Agents of SHIELD- The Final Season Discussion
- Thread starter Turtletrekker
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Maybe they could be in the universe where Thanos took his fleet from 2014 to Endgames 2022. Meaning he removed himself from that universe he left
The problem with the theory of them coming back into a different timeline after 2091 is you have to explain how the Earth was prevented from being shaken apart in the prime timeline. The timeline would have had to split off before the loop even started.
There need to be three timelines. One where the loop happened, one where the loop was averted, and one where the loop never happened to begin with. I don't see a mechanic to account for all three, unless maybe it was Thanos disappearing that caused the Confederacy to go to Earth in the first place.
That implies though that in the prime timeline, all the characters are still alive and just got arrested in that cafe instead of kidnapped and sent to the future.
There need to be three timelines. One where the loop happened, one where the loop was averted, and one where the loop never happened to begin with. I don't see a mechanic to account for all three, unless maybe it was Thanos disappearing that caused the Confederacy to go to Earth in the first place.
That implies though that in the prime timeline, all the characters are still alive and just got arrested in that cafe instead of kidnapped and sent to the future.
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Yup, I think that moment elicited a "FUCK, yeah!" from me.That was a "YEAH!!" moment for me.
What if there's just one timeline?
- Season 5's "The End" has the battle in Chicago taking place at the same time as Thanos' forces attack New York City in "Infinity War"
- "Infinity War"'s battle in Wakanda occurs at the same time that Talbot is defeated and the Agents fly Coulson and May to Tahiti in "The End"
- The Zephyr lands in Tahiti and the Agents say their good-byes to May and Coulson aboard the plane ("The End")
- Thanos performs the Snap and erases half of all life in the universe ("Infinity War") including the entire Agents of SHIELD cast and the version of Fitz in cryo-sleep in space
- Five years pass, Banner performs the unSnap, restoring all the disappearances ("Endgame") and the Agents reappear aboard the Zephyr in Tahiti without realizing that they are missing five years
- Fitz is also restored within the cryogenic chamber
- The Agents resume exactly what they were doing five years ago thinking only seconds have passed: they see May and Coulson off in Tahiti and fly off into space to search for Fitz ("The End")
- The Agents realize that five years have passed and discuss it and come to terms with it as yet another odd time travel incident (off camera)
- Fitz's ship is attacked (Season 6's premiere, "Missing Pieces")
- One year passes during which Earth resumes normalcy ("Spider-Man: Far From Home") and the search for Fitz continues ("Missing Pieces")
Daisy shook the planet apart... if everyone who time traveled departed the original MCU timeline and returned to a splintered off MCU-similar timeline that means the original MCU timeline would no longer have anyone from Agents of Shield in it (except for Fitz in his stasis pod)
Everyone who traveled to the future would then have returned to the past, but in returning they would have entered into a split MCU timeline where they are now in one where they returned... but the 'prime' MCU timeline continued on as if they never returned.
So that prime MCU timeline would have been safe from a destroyed Earth because of no Quake... and it would have been safe from Talbot/Graviton because the actions of the shield team ended up creating it, but they wouldn't have been there. So maybe Ruby gets the gravitonium and just dies... maybe the events of the Shield team returning caused more gravitonium to be discovered/created and that doesn't happen without them.
That doesn’t quite work. I guess you can argue no Sarge = no Izel, but you still need an explanation how Hale and the Confederacy turned out.
If the Agents didn’t go forward in time, they can’t have come back in time to create an alternate path. There has to be a fork before the loop started to have a separate timeline with no loop.
If the Agents didn’t go forward in time, they can’t have come back in time to create an alternate path. There has to be a fork before the loop started to have a separate timeline with no loop.
Wouldn't we be better off with theories that put AGENTS OF SHIELD in the same universe and timeline as the films and Netflix shows?
Here's one:
Here's one:
I suppose it really depends on how unrecognizable you think blip-era Earth is compared to pre- and post-blip Earth. Spider-Man had his entire supporting cast snapped, never mind Hawkeye’s whole family, so it’s not unprecedented for “clumps” to emerge in the randomness, but taking or sparing the entire S.H.I.E.L.D. crew is essentially equally likely.
I’m just going to go with whatever theory allows me to do a fan-edit where I slip the Zephyr (or a few Zephyrs) dogfighting with space-whales, and quake and yo-yo effects in the background of the final Endgame battle.
I’m just going to go with whatever theory allows me to do a fan-edit where I slip the Zephyr (or a few Zephyrs) dogfighting with space-whales, and quake and yo-yo effects in the background of the final Endgame battle.
Going with my theory, I think it's likely that SHIELD got the alert to confront Thanos shortly after Banner restored everyone and the team (minus May and Coulson) flew into the ENDGAME climax to assist and also sneaked Gamora away with them when no one was looking for some advice on how to find a lost friend in space.
I've pretty much considered AoS an alternate timeline from the beginning since about Season 2 or 3, pretty much the last time we got any direct, explicit reference to the movies. Especially by the time we get to the last couple seasons, it's just gone to far off on it's own for it to really fit with the movies for me. It just find it hard to believe that the Avengers wouldn't have gotten involved in the stuff S.H.I.E.L.D. was dealing with in the show, or vice versa.
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Deke Shaw-- Director of SHIELD. I don't know if Thanos should chuckle, tremble or both.
I'm sure The Nth will agree, Deke is the true hero of the series.
I so dreaded watching the finale. I hate saying good bye to a show and characters I’v grown to love. Been with the show from the start, through the dark times of season 1, and watched the show morph into one of the best Marvel shows on the small screen. No question Mo and Jed are going to get another show at some point.
Watching the finale was made even more difficult by them teasing Fitz’ death or terminal illness. If I’d thought about it (which I didn’t), I’d have realized that there is no way they would have “killed” off Fitzy again. But that didn’t cover Jemma or Daisy.
VERY satisfying ending. To have their motivation come down to family was so appropriate given the show’s constant emphasis on character throughout it’s run. The whole ‘last mission together’ and ‘last time in the same room together’ thing had me worried. They were kinda trolling us on the latter.
I’m a veteran of the horror that was These are The Voyages, and I swear that turd left a mark on the psyche of show runners far and wide. So not only do we get a beautiful reason for Fitz/Simmons’ meticulous precautions, we also get to see all the characters set off on the next phase of their lives while remaining close friends. No gratuitous deaths or break ups, just a happy ending for all, even Flint.
The only thing I kinda missed was one last little comedic shoutout to Deke’s status in the present timeline. I know how we ALL loved him SO much.
Watching the finale was made even more difficult by them teasing Fitz’ death or terminal illness. If I’d thought about it (which I didn’t), I’d have realized that there is no way they would have “killed” off Fitzy again. But that didn’t cover Jemma or Daisy.
VERY satisfying ending. To have their motivation come down to family was so appropriate given the show’s constant emphasis on character throughout it’s run. The whole ‘last mission together’ and ‘last time in the same room together’ thing had me worried. They were kinda trolling us on the latter.
I’m a veteran of the horror that was These are The Voyages, and I swear that turd left a mark on the psyche of show runners far and wide. So not only do we get a beautiful reason for Fitz/Simmons’ meticulous precautions, we also get to see all the characters set off on the next phase of their lives while remaining close friends. No gratuitous deaths or break ups, just a happy ending for all, even Flint.
The only thing I kinda missed was one last little comedic shoutout to Deke’s status in the present timeline. I know how we ALL loved him SO much.
I so dreaded watching the finale. I hate saying good bye to a show and characters I’v grown to love. Been with the show from the start, through the dark times of season 1, and watched the show morph into one of the best Marvel shows on the small screen. No question Mo and Jed are going to get another show at some point.
Watching the finale was made even more difficult by them teasing Fitz’ death or terminal illness. If I’d thought about it (which I didn’t), I’d have realized that there is no way they would have “killed” off Fitzy again. But that didn’t cover Jemma or Daisy.
VERY satisfying ending. To have their motivation come down to family was so appropriate given the show’s constant emphasis on character throughout it’s run. The whole ‘last mission together’ and ‘last time in the same room together’ thing had me worried. They were kinda trolling us on the latter.
I’m a veteran of the horror that was These are The Voyages, and I swear that turd left a mark on the psyche of show runners far and wide. So not only do we get a beautiful reason for Fitz/Simmons’ meticulous precautions, we also get to see all the characters set off on the next phase of their lives while remaining close friends. No gratuitous deaths or break ups, just a happy ending for all, even Flint.
The only thing I kinda missed was one last little comedic shoutout to Deke’s status in the present timeline. I know how we ALL loved him SO much.
I agree about Deke. They should have had Deke in present day of his universe performing a Rock Concert where his band and fellow undercover agents are the Coulson,Daisy etc versions from that universe. That or if possible edit the the dancing scene in Guardians of the Galaxy were you see Peter Quill dancing at the beginning only this time it has a Deke song he is listening to.
Jason
Aw, man. That was Exhibit A in the Master Class of "How To Do A Series Finale Right." Here we have a show that respects and appreciates its audience. 
First of all, they had to save the world from the Complications. They didn't have to restore the timeline, after all, because their original timeline was still there. But, like the good heroes they are, they had to do what they could for the badly abused timeline. This involved taking away the invading alien robots and leaving Deke to sort things out. And sure, Deke got left behind in the Mirror Universe, but he finally got some respect. I especially liked Mack's acknowlegment of what Deke did for him-- which was pretty much what Mack did for Fitz.
And their final solution to the attack of the Contrabands was absolutely beautiful-- and very timely, too. It wasn't about a military victory or counterintelligence campaign or banishment to an empty timeline or super-technological trickery. They just won them over. They taught them empathy and changed their minds. Because you don't want to become like your enemy-- you want your enemy to become like you. A lesson that has needed to be learned repeatedly throughout history, and never moreso than now.
Not that there wasn't action. Daisy got to fight and win a big superhero battle and the little weasely guy got fried and the spaceships blew up. Good enough.
But then, after all those changes that were inflicted on the past timeline, came the real changes that are inevitable as life goes on, and our gang's time together came to an end-- fortunately, it was a very satisfying end.
Piper, in exchange for helping Gemma, is now working with a resurrected version of Davis. Yes, there are lots of existential and ethical questions raised by this, but it's touching so shut up.
Fitz and Simmons, as theorized, were away a lot longer than they let on-- long enough to have a baby named after a star, who may or may not grow up to be a new Deke's mother. And, after carrying out a plot worthy of Rube Goldberg that spanned multiple eras and timelines and star systems, got to retire to a life of domestic bliss. And undoubtedly some interesting hobbies, like designing new fish.
May, after getting to be The Cavalry one last time, is now teaching Generation Alpha how to be new Cavalries-- at the Coulson Academy. Excuse me a minute, I've something in my eye. And there's a little bit of a hint that she might be open to a little LMD lovin,' after all.
Daisy is off on a Space Opera adventure with her new sister from another timeline (fair trade for Deke, I guess) and Sousa. Kora hasn't been around long enough to really make much of an impression, but Sousa feels like he's always been there. They make a nice trio and one can easily imagine them on Flash Gordon adventures. And I love that Sousa was reading a hard copy of Cosmos.
YoYo seems to have her own team now, which includes Piper and Davis, and gets to do cool things like jump out of a speeding car at a full run, so she's on top of the world. And, as far as I can tell she's still with Mack.
And Mack-- speaking about on top of the world, he's got his own helicarrier now. Mack the engineer, who didn't want to be the boss and who was the only one who knew how to help Fitz when he had brain damage, is now the director of a fully restored SHIELD.
But ultimately, this has always been The Coulson Show. What would be the perfect happy ending for Coulson? Could it be coming to terms with his new immortal self? Could it be having the opportunity to see the world and the universe? Could it be flying off into the sunset in a brand spanking new Lola? Could be. I'm good with that. So cheers to Phil Coulson, the guy who proved that you can save the world with just a good heart and a resting smirk face.
So, yeah, that was about the best finale a series ever had. Not perfect, though. I have some questions, mostly about the Corpulents.
Like, where are they? Now that they are our friends (as they have always been), are they working with SHIELD? Did they leave Earth to find a new planet to settle on? Are they now the Wanderers of the Universe? What are their plans, dammit?
Also, is Sibyl dead? It was like she disappeared when May landed on her head. Surely she's not that delicate. For a couple of minutes, I thought she was going to learn empathy and become a new love interest for Coulson. They were always kind of flirty.
And Enoch. Poor friend Enoch. Why does he have to be dead? He's a robot, so his brain should still be intact. Why can't they just give him a chest thingamajig transplant from one of those wrecked Coconuts. I think those chest devices are called Life Imitating Machine Engines, or LIME for short. They could just put the LIME in the Coconut. (By request.)
And, finally, did Fitz's plan actually make any sense? Nah, never mind, I don't care.
First of all, they had to save the world from the Complications. They didn't have to restore the timeline, after all, because their original timeline was still there. But, like the good heroes they are, they had to do what they could for the badly abused timeline. This involved taking away the invading alien robots and leaving Deke to sort things out. And sure, Deke got left behind in the Mirror Universe, but he finally got some respect. I especially liked Mack's acknowlegment of what Deke did for him-- which was pretty much what Mack did for Fitz.
And their final solution to the attack of the Contrabands was absolutely beautiful-- and very timely, too. It wasn't about a military victory or counterintelligence campaign or banishment to an empty timeline or super-technological trickery. They just won them over. They taught them empathy and changed their minds. Because you don't want to become like your enemy-- you want your enemy to become like you. A lesson that has needed to be learned repeatedly throughout history, and never moreso than now.
Not that there wasn't action. Daisy got to fight and win a big superhero battle and the little weasely guy got fried and the spaceships blew up. Good enough.
But then, after all those changes that were inflicted on the past timeline, came the real changes that are inevitable as life goes on, and our gang's time together came to an end-- fortunately, it was a very satisfying end.
Piper, in exchange for helping Gemma, is now working with a resurrected version of Davis. Yes, there are lots of existential and ethical questions raised by this, but it's touching so shut up.
Fitz and Simmons, as theorized, were away a lot longer than they let on-- long enough to have a baby named after a star, who may or may not grow up to be a new Deke's mother. And, after carrying out a plot worthy of Rube Goldberg that spanned multiple eras and timelines and star systems, got to retire to a life of domestic bliss. And undoubtedly some interesting hobbies, like designing new fish.
May, after getting to be The Cavalry one last time, is now teaching Generation Alpha how to be new Cavalries-- at the Coulson Academy. Excuse me a minute, I've something in my eye. And there's a little bit of a hint that she might be open to a little LMD lovin,' after all.
Daisy is off on a Space Opera adventure with her new sister from another timeline (fair trade for Deke, I guess) and Sousa. Kora hasn't been around long enough to really make much of an impression, but Sousa feels like he's always been there. They make a nice trio and one can easily imagine them on Flash Gordon adventures. And I love that Sousa was reading a hard copy of Cosmos.
YoYo seems to have her own team now, which includes Piper and Davis, and gets to do cool things like jump out of a speeding car at a full run, so she's on top of the world. And, as far as I can tell she's still with Mack.
And Mack-- speaking about on top of the world, he's got his own helicarrier now. Mack the engineer, who didn't want to be the boss and who was the only one who knew how to help Fitz when he had brain damage, is now the director of a fully restored SHIELD.
But ultimately, this has always been The Coulson Show. What would be the perfect happy ending for Coulson? Could it be coming to terms with his new immortal self? Could it be having the opportunity to see the world and the universe? Could it be flying off into the sunset in a brand spanking new Lola? Could be. I'm good with that. So cheers to Phil Coulson, the guy who proved that you can save the world with just a good heart and a resting smirk face.
So, yeah, that was about the best finale a series ever had. Not perfect, though. I have some questions, mostly about the Corpulents.
Like, where are they? Now that they are our friends (as they have always been), are they working with SHIELD? Did they leave Earth to find a new planet to settle on? Are they now the Wanderers of the Universe? What are their plans, dammit?
Also, is Sibyl dead? It was like she disappeared when May landed on her head. Surely she's not that delicate. For a couple of minutes, I thought she was going to learn empathy and become a new love interest for Coulson. They were always kind of flirty.
And Enoch. Poor friend Enoch. Why does he have to be dead? He's a robot, so his brain should still be intact. Why can't they just give him a chest thingamajig transplant from one of those wrecked Coconuts. I think those chest devices are called Life Imitating Machine Engines, or LIME for short. They could just put the LIME in the Coconut. (By request.)
And, finally, did Fitz's plan actually make any sense? Nah, never mind, I don't care.
Well, in short, I'm considering them all alive and well (and available) in the prime MCU except for Coulson, who is dead and well (and available), and Deke. Who is alive and well somewhere else.
Also around are The Runaways, Cloak & Dagger, Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Iron Fist and The Punisher, their supporting casts and so on. And maybe (?) The Inhumans. Helstrom to be decided...
Timeline post snap correct and all sort ed. It just IS - O.K. ?
Marvel TV, over and out...
Also around are The Runaways, Cloak & Dagger, Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Iron Fist and The Punisher, their supporting casts and so on. And maybe (?) The Inhumans. Helstrom to be decided...
Timeline post snap correct and all sort ed. It just IS - O.K. ?
Marvel TV, over and out...
As I recall, the AI invasion and the threat in the far future and the secret effort from the Confederacy to mine the Earth for resources before Thanos landed and the attack from Izel -- those were all when SHIELD was once again a covert operation after Jeffrey Mace was found 'quaked' to death with Daisy framed for his murder. Also, with Izel's ability to possess people, SHIELD was wise not to seek assistance from any superhumans who could be turned into enemies.
As for the timeline post-Snap being just IS -- I personally had no difficulty accepting that Season 6 and onward took place after ENDGAME restored everyone, especially when SPIDER MAN FAR FROM HOME shows an Earth that's regained normalcy.
Below is my theory for how the events of INFINITY WAR and ENDGAME happen between the scenes of Season 5's "The End." And I know the internet doesn't exist to validate me, but I've posted it in various SHIELD threads and forums and nobody ever seems to respond to it, not even to shoot it down. I wish someone would read it and tell me why they think it's wrong and tear it apart and sell it for scrap, but it's usually just ignored. ;-)
As for the timeline post-Snap being just IS -- I personally had no difficulty accepting that Season 6 and onward took place after ENDGAME restored everyone, especially when SPIDER MAN FAR FROM HOME shows an Earth that's regained normalcy.
Below is my theory for how the events of INFINITY WAR and ENDGAME happen between the scenes of Season 5's "The End." And I know the internet doesn't exist to validate me, but I've posted it in various SHIELD threads and forums and nobody ever seems to respond to it, not even to shoot it down. I wish someone would read it and tell me why they think it's wrong and tear it apart and sell it for scrap, but it's usually just ignored. ;-)
- Thanos' forces attack in New York (INFINITY WAR)
- Daisy and Talbot fight in Chicago ("The End")
- The attack in Wakanda takes place (INFINITY WAR)
- Daisy is triumphant over Talbot. The Zephyr flies May and Coulson to Tahiti and lands on the beach ("The End")
- Thanos' Snap erases 50 per cent of all life in the universe including the entire cast of AGENTS OF SHIELD (INFINITY WAR)
- Five years later, Banner performs the unSnap. All the missing are restored including the agents aboard the Zephyr (ENDGAME)
- The agents, unaware that five years passed in the seconds they experienced, bid farewell to Coulson and May who disembark in Tahiti while the agents fly off to search for Fitz ("The End")
- Earth rebuilds and resumes normalcy (SPIDER-MAN FAR FROM HOME)]
- The agents realize from the news that they ceased to exist and were then restored and the Snap is ultimately less traumatic than any of their other recent experiences (off camera)
- Fitz's ship is attacked ("Missing Pieces")
- A year passes with the agents searching for Fitz still ("Missing Pieces")
