Agents of Shield - Season 4
- Thread starter MarsWeeps
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I'm still not convinced that the entirety of the next arc will be set in the framework. While I don't expect it to go away, I suspect that this current situation will be resolved relatively quickly.
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Quite obviously, people that aren't you must have enjoyed him.
I agree; since both Aida and the Superior are outside the framework and will continue implementing their real-world nefarious plots, the team must leave at some point in order to defeat Aida before the season finale.
I guess you haven't seen the latest episode? The question is now that he is back, in whatever form, what are they going to do with him? Is it a cameo with the old gang back together as we go towards the probable series finale or will he play a larger part of the Framework story.
Good thought. The part about collecting them all personally, I mean.
That seems likely.
The TV show Eureka did an alternate timeline arc that became the new status quo. It was a mix of good and bad, and the characters had to deal with it being their new normal.
But why would HYDRA win in a pain-free (or pain-reduced) world? It must be one of those "unintended consequences" where saving the kid in Bahrain leads somehow to a HYDRA victory or something.
I didn't even think about that. Fitz will learn that his bad relationship with his father is what made him a good guy.
My thought was that he could be brought back as the original version (or perception) of Ward as a good guy-- the way Daisy saw him before he was revealed to be a HYDRA tool.
Again, because of Coulson's stated regret, that he sometimes wished that he'd never become an agent. Now that I think of it, they'd been setting this up even earlier in the arc, with the Superior's kooky conspiracy theory about Coulson being at the center of all of the metahuman action. Pull on his thread and maybe it all goes to hell.
This is just my theory but May can't live without the pain, the action and enemies to fight.. it's in her DNA. The first version of the Framework had her in a luxury spa or something like this and May went nuts and rejected it.
The next version had her being captured and breaking out.. Aida and Radcliffe devised it to keep May occupied and satisfied be the broke out of the limits of that program so they came up with the Framework which is essentially simulating an entire world, something even May can't outfight and they have introduced a large enough enemy that a single May can't beat it.
How they rationalize Hydra still existing, much less replacing Shield when in the show they buried Hydra for good is anyone's guess.. it is obvious that these glimpses are intentionally misleading such as a dead Simmons and nothing can be taken at face value.
It was a very good episode with a cool twist at the end, it's just a shame to have to wait more than a month to see how it continues.
I've heard that Shield is not doing so well in the ratings.. could this be the last season? Any word on that (probably way too soon)?
Well, the very fact that the Triskelion is still intact in the virtual world strongly implies that the ending of The Winter Soldier never happened there -- that Project Insight was not averted by Cap, Widow, Fury, et al. and thus Hydra succeeded in assassinating all opposition and taking over openly. So the divergence goes back at least as far as AoS's first season.
How can that be? Winter Soldier happened both in the movie and the show. In fact it was a much bigger deal for the show and changed the whole show permanently. This is not something you forget easily because it's a small detail and May has lived through it. Up until season 3 i think the main bad was Hydra and they even had an episode where they celebrated putting down Hydra for good.
They either manipulated Mays' memory to fit with their narrative or there is something else going on and that short sequence is misleading (as it most likely is).
Yes, exactly, that's the whole point of the conversation Aida and Radcliffe had at the beginning of the episode. Radcliffe wanted the Framework to remove people's pain, so he asked Aida to edit the simulation so that one key regret in each character's past was erased. We saw this done with May a few weeks ago, when Aida programmed a simulation in which she succeeded in saving the little girl in Bahrain, so that the greatest tragedy of her life never happened. Essentially, the Framework is tantamount to an alternate timeline. And the people inside it believe it's real. When we saw May inside the simulation before, she didn't know right off the bat that it was false; she initially took it as real but only gradually sensed that something was wrong. Over time, Aida improved the simulation to be more convincing. The rewrite of Bahrain was what finally gave May what she wanted most and enabled her to accept the new reality rather than questioning it. And the same has no doubt happened for the others.
hmmm, am starting to think you don't like the show...nah what sort of person watches something they don't like from a company they don't like
As I said, I think there's a disconnect between what Radcliffe intended -- to edit the team's pasts to remove their greatest regrets -- and what actually happened as a result -- "history" being changed in such a way that Hydra was never defeated. Radcliffe didn't realize that would be the aftereffect, and Aida didn't care because she has different, more emotionless priorities than he does. Pretty much everything Radcliffe has done from the first time we met him was well-intentioned but ended up having horrible ramifications. No reason this should be any different.
Also, for what it's worth, this isn't Hydra taking over SHIELD -- rather, Hydra effectively took over SHIELD from within decades ago, and the changes to history mean that the events leading to its exposure and defeat never happened. So this is the reality that would've unfolded if Alexander Pierce had won.
hmmm, am starting to think you don't like the show...nah what sort of person watches something they don't like from a company they don't like
Why is it that every time someone has a complaint to make about this show or any other show or movie, someone else has to accuse that person of not liking it. I find this attitude very annoying. I can think of a lot of movies and TV shows that I like . . . and have made complaints about something in them.
Alexander Pierce had won? He wasn't the overall head of HYDRA.
Sucks that the show is on hiatus, that was one hell of a cliff hanger. A Hydra world backed up by May, the mystery woman holding Fitz's hand, and It feels weird to say, but I kinda like that Ward is back.
I imagine with Coulson not doing the things he did in the movies and May stopping an evil mind controlling Inhuman, the Avengers didn't unite like they did and Inhumans are feared. Since Stark would be in New York after Loki's assault, he still could have pushed the nuke through the portal but something tells me Cap would have been lost attempting to stop an Army without a team strong enough to make a difference, letting Hydra win in Winter Soldier which means all the targets that Project Incite targeted were killed including Stark and Hill. Fury would probably still be alive not having to go to Cap's place that night and he would have grabbed the best new recruits left available like Jemma, and faking their death. I'm not sure why Fitz wouldn't have been grabbed too, but Coulson's team wouldn't have been brought together anyway. May may have just joined Hydra after all the crazy things she encountered like Inhumans, aliens, and mad scientist with gravitonium, and Thor might still be human and in a cell thanks to not having Coulson release him in his movie, where Loki would have won with him still making a deal with Thanos to invade earth, and he'd still have a working bifrost so the alien threat would continue.
Man, I can't wait until they're back.
I imagine with Coulson not doing the things he did in the movies and May stopping an evil mind controlling Inhuman, the Avengers didn't unite like they did and Inhumans are feared. Since Stark would be in New York after Loki's assault, he still could have pushed the nuke through the portal but something tells me Cap would have been lost attempting to stop an Army without a team strong enough to make a difference, letting Hydra win in Winter Soldier which means all the targets that Project Incite targeted were killed including Stark and Hill. Fury would probably still be alive not having to go to Cap's place that night and he would have grabbed the best new recruits left available like Jemma, and faking their death. I'm not sure why Fitz wouldn't have been grabbed too, but Coulson's team wouldn't have been brought together anyway. May may have just joined Hydra after all the crazy things she encountered like Inhumans, aliens, and mad scientist with gravitonium, and Thor might still be human and in a cell thanks to not having Coulson release him in his movie, where Loki would have won with him still making a deal with Thanos to invade earth, and he'd still have a working bifrost so the alien threat would continue.
Man, I can't wait until they're back.
With all of this speculation about how and why the world is different in the Framework, I wonder if the show will even bother to address these specific points, especially regarding the members of the Avengers. I would certainly welcome such references, but I'm not expecting them.
Just wondering how many episodes left after the hiatus to wrap up this arc...
I wonder if Daisy will be Quake in the Framework since the inhuman storyline would be either non-existent or have unfolded in a completely new direction.
Is it just me or does Fritz come across as a complete dick in his alternate Framework life?
I wonder if Daisy will be Quake in the Framework since the inhuman storyline would be either non-existent or have unfolded in a completely new direction.
Is it just me or does Fritz come across as a complete dick in his alternate Framework life?
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